www.justiceforchandra.com

[rd]

from websleuths.com:

BondJamesBond wrote:
Unless/until someone complains I'll just keep posting up questions to the extent anyone is willing to answer, I'll just move @ that pace until I get time to read back through everything.

1) Is there a decent detailed timeline anywhere?

2) Surely her workout routine has been established? Morning or evening or both? At Mosaic and/or have seen a facility next to the Tap Room mentioned also. I'd be inclined to buy a morning workout routine. Facility @ Mosaic and one next to Tap Room open 24hrs? Since I'm assuming no one saw Kesse after 10PM 1/23, IF we went w/ an early morning workout we could have something like a parking-lot-upon-arrival-@-a-workout-facility-before-seen-by-anyone abduction. That would put the perp in a position to be in control of the car that morning. That would also tighten up the timeline considerably.

3) Out on a limb w/ the potential JVH connection, having read something about him potentially being connected w/ the workout facility near the Tap Room and/or Kesse having spent time @ the Tap Room I can envision a, "Hey...?" casual just-happened-to-arrive-in-the-workout-facility-parking-lot-@-the-same-time and from him being someone she might at least recognize & not fear...he'd get close enough to subdue her & takeoff.

Apologies for what must surely be well-trodden ground.

Hi James, I know where all this workout stuff is coming from, but have you reviewed the info on Jennifer? It would take quite awhile, I understand. I am up to speed on only a few cases and it consumes so much time. But I needed to look at a case this weekend, Amber Dubois, and I read the threads on multiple boards on her to get up to speed. There's just no way around it.

Jennifer came back from a weekend in the Carribean on Monday morning and I believe went straight to work in Orlando (Ocoee) from Ft. Lauderdale area where her bf lives. She came home from work Monday evening and talked to several people by phone, including her brother who asked her to overnight a cellphone left in her condo by a friend of his when they were staying in her condo for the weekend while she was gone.

She was last on the phone at 10 pm with her bf saying goodnight.

I have never heard anything mentioned about workout facilities at the Mosaic, obviously I'm sure they have them, but it's a real stretch trying to fit in a workout angle in a Monday evening coming home from being gone for three days.

Tuesday morning there are several other issues, none dealt with very well by anyone, concerning not making her normal wakeup call to her bf and not answering his call to her when he didn't hear from her.

Her routine was shattered, and I wouldn't attribute it to some new workout angle because of Hataway.

rd

[rd]

from websleuths.com:
BondJamesBond wrote:
Anyone ever get detailed measurements from the scene where that security video was taken?

It would be a straightforward exercise to scale the image to other known objects in the field of view (e.g. fence elements, sidewalk marks, etc.) to the POI. To be complete one would need to know the distance from the ground to the camera lens, and the horizontal distance from the point under the camera to the fence...as well as some measurements on the fence elements, etc.

I'd be happy to do the math if given the measurements.

James, I welcome you to scan through Jennifer Kesse POI photo analysis links
http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3402

In it are included a description of the scene when I visited there and some detailed measurements by poster J4J. Also some pictures from J4J in the Blowup of Kesse Suspect thread linked inn the thread.

I'd be interested in your take on it, for example your calculations on the measurements, etc.

rd

[rd]

from websleuths.com:
BondJamesBond wrote:
Thanks, RD_JFC. I'm doing what I groan at seeing others so...posting w/o doing my homework Will take a look @ what you've provided. Thanks for the quick summary

Was reading about potential that Kesse used the workout facility (Cardio Club) located adjacent to the Tap Room (where Kesse and Ocasio missing 5/09 reportedly both hung out)...and the Ocasio POI (Hataway) may have also done some work as a personal trainer...dunno how accurate any of that is...maybe just speculation.

Thought there was also something 'bout a cardio bag of Kesse's missing in addition to her purse. This might support a morning abduction if Kesse had headed for a workout on her way to the office...maybe planning to overnight the phone along the way too. When I marked Kesse's condo & workplace on the map (link below) this workout facility would be on her route to work. So...maybe not such a huge stretch.

Created the following map as we look @ the potential inserection of info in the Ocasio, Kesse and George (Onda Chris George acquaintence of Hataway's that went missing 2/09). I marked what I believe is the path of the Kesse POI as caught on the security video by the pool where her car was left. I haven't nailed down exactly where he was caught in the best 2 pics by what appeared to be a gate. Please take a look and see if you can help me make this marking more accurate. The map can be edited by anyone.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...ed26e&t=h&z=15

Did the cell phone get overnighted? IOW...did it ever show up? Anyone locate the overnight location(s) which Kesse would've most likely used?

Will take a look. Thanks!

Yes, the potential is from when Jennifer lived there in Ocoee. She had only moved from Ocoee and been living in her new condo on Conway for two months, and of course still worked in Ocoee.

In other words, the potential is long term that Hataway knew of her and might want to victimize her. Her moving away might have provided an opportunity for that in that it would appear to be an assault from someone in her new surroundings.

The gym bag known by her family/friends to always be in her trunk is new info to me I've only seen in blink, and haven't seen any confirmation posted that it's true. In any event, it was said to always be in her trunk, so anything regarding timing of its disappearance to a workout is not applicable.

The lack of a phone call or text message that morning to her bf cannot be overstated. When you do something every morning and the morning you don't do it you disappear, I would attribute to not doing because you disappeared.

The call or text was done early, something in the 6 to 6:30 time frame, so I believe her life had been disrupted by that time. That thought is not widely held by others, but then most of my thoughts on Jennifer's disappearance aren't. Still, no one addresses these issues of no call to her bf and promisng to overnight the cellphone to her brother's friend either. They are rarely mentioned even.

The cell phone is a big key here. There has been no information provided that indicates the status of the cell phone. Information implied is as if the cell phone was off or cell phone company had no ping info but won't reveal that they didn't have it.

The cell phone was almost certainly not off and I assume that the ping info was not available but is not being confirmed by police. That still requires an explanation for no phone call very early in the morning which I can't explain with any reasonable scenario other than headed out the door prior to 6:30 and was abducted before she could make the phone call, which still doesn't meet the reasonable criteria.

The cell phone was never sent. I looked at your questions when I first looked at this a couple of years ago and posted here in Jennifer's thread.

Hope that helps, James.

rd

[Rainbow]

I "ditto" what you are saying here regarding the "interruption" in Jennifer's regular contact with her boyfriend, as well as the importance of the cell phone pings or pongs.

[rd]

yeah, it's amazing that these critical factors are completely glossed over.

rd

[UCFAlum2002]

Jenn would text or call Rob during her commute to work- I personally still believe something happened when she locked her door and left for work- somewhere between her apartment door and her car door in the morning.

Also, Jenn lived in Metrowest before Mosaic at Millenia- not Ocoee. She works in Ocoee.

Thanks
_________________
Help Find Missing Jennifer Kesse
www.findjenniferkesse.com
REWARD

[rd]

also from websleuths, UFCAlumni2002 wrote:
From what I know, Jenn did not belong to a gym. Also, the cell phone was never overnighted (or if it was it never arrived at its destination). Jenn typically used her office's mailing facility versus going to USPS, UPS or FedEx as she had access to all at work. In regards to where she lived before Mosaic, she lived in Metrowest- which is not Ocoee. It's near Ocoee, but not Ocoee. It's right next to where the Florida Tap Room Bar is. No gym bag is missing- what is missing is her purse, her briefcase, her cell phone, ipod, brother's cell phone.

Hope this helps.
__________________
Help Find Missing Jennifer Kesse
www.findjenniferkesse.com
REWARD
Family Tip Line 407-722-2162


Ok, UCFAlum, I have been after this info about using the company's express facilities for over two years. I would like a clarification if I could, as I have posted, I have never seen a larger facility provide FedEx/overnight services for the employees. How did that work? She paid someone who handled shipping the FedEx charge? Someone is aware that Jennifer has in fact overnighted from her company before? That is quite critical to me and has never been addressed by anyone.

The gym bag thing of course is a recent statement from blink on blinkoncrime. I have never seen it before, they claimed family/friends provided this secret info to them about a gym bag always being in her trunk and missing. I've quite frankly never seen this blink stuff before but came across it when they posted this new info about Jennifer. Glad to have that clarified.

The calling/texting thing going to work I have a big problem with. The original interview of the bf Rob by Nancy Grace has been a few years ago, and I posted at the time it was very vague about timing that needed clarified, but I thought I recalled Rob mentioning something about 6 o'clock or 6:30 or so in this wake up call. I think he referred to it as a wake up call. He also said he was worried about not hearng from her by the time he called. I don't have that transcript but definitely did not sound like an exchange of good mornings on the way to work the way he described it was my fleeting impression.

Again, this is fundamental stuff that has never been addressed. For example, the police released a statement that they thought Jennifer might have been out looking for a delivery box to overnight her brother's friend's cell phone. If people close to Jennifer knew she used her company's facilities to FedEx, why would the police not know this? They obviously asked about it and were acting on it, and were communicating to the public about it.

Any elaborations on your very helpful info much appreciated, UCFAlum.

regards,
rd

[UCFAlum2002]

[rd]

Thank you for that clarification, UCFAlum. I understand about the gym bag, I hadn't heard anyone mention a missing gym bag prior to that blink post, who cited unnamed friends/family for that info about a gym bag always in her trunk and missing. So that's not an issue. The call and overnighting the cell phone are with me.

Ok, I looked up the Nancy Grace (Jane Valez-Mitchell hosting) interview with Rob Allen. Here's what he said:

from CNN.com (fair use)
NANCY GRACE
What Happened to Jennifer Kesse?
Aired February 7, 2006

ROB ALLEN, JENNIFER KESSE`S BOYFRIEND: Nothing out of the ordinary. I`ve known Jennifer for about the last 12 months, and we talked periodically throughout the day every day, every night before she goes to bed, every morning before, when she wakes up. We`d recently just come back from a vacation, and we talked throughout the day on Monday, and then Monday evening, she called me `round about 10:00 o`clock. She was in bed. She was tired from the vacation that we had just recently taken, had a long day at work. We talked briefly. No problem at all. We both said we missed each other and we were looking forward to the next time we were going to spend with each other.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Rob, I understand that she was in the habit of doing something very romantic, sending you a text message or a phone message the next day, the next morning, to say, Hey, I`m OK, I love you, that kind of thing. She didn`t do that the next day. Tell us about that and why it sparked concerns to you.

ALLEN: Well, normally, like I`ve said, Jennifer and I had gotten into the routine -- Jennifer always woke up before me. She had to go to work before I did. So she every day would either call me just to say, Good morning, Have a great day, or just text me to wish me to, you know, have a great day, Love you, that type of thing. And when I didn`t receive it Tuesday morning, I thought it was odd, but I was running a little late for work, so I called her on the way into work and just (INAUDIBLE) her voice- mail. I called her both...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...

ALLEN: Go ahead. Sorry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that, of course, sparked concerns in you or not, at that moment?

ALLEN: Not -- yes, I thought it was odd, but I knew Jennifer had been away for a couple days on vacation, so I knew she had a lot on her plate and I knew she had a busy schedule. So I left a message with her and then went ahead with my day. And then after my meeting -- I had a meeting at 9:00 o`clock. After I had that meeting, I called her again, and once again I got her voice-mail, which I thought was odd. And it was then that her parents called me to notify me that she hadn`t shown up for work that day...

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. Jane, you know, I just can`t even think of another case remotely like this one in terms of the curiosities. And as I was listening, I was struck by the fact that she was in bed on a Monday night, according to Rob, her boyfriend, in bed at 10:00 PM, saying good night. So presumably, she was safe in bed on Monday night, and she didn`t call him the next morning, which is something, according to him, she did on a regular basis, apparently, before she even left her condo.

click to read rest
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/07/ng.01.html


I certainly understand it's possible that Rob meant when she wakes up to be on her drive to work. I can see the possibility of the before in every morning before, when she wakes up referring to something as broad as getting to work, but I'm sorry, not only me but the former prosecutor Wendy Murphy took all those words he said as being a good morning call earlier. Somewhere else there was info that Jennifer woke between 6 and 6:30 each day and that's where I associated wakes up and 6 to 6:30 for a call or text message.

This is not a trivial matter, it's actually about as important as it gets concerning what happened to Jennifer that morning, and if all that I have bolded above amounts to a call on the way to work (including all the text messaging), then I will just say there's no way I get that out of it and I'd want to hear another interview where he goes into much clearer detail about that call pattern and how what he describes above fits it.

The other issue about overnighting, that it is common to use company facilities is just not the case. I have worked at many companies all over the country as an employee and a consultant for many years and have never seen a company permit employees to overnight using their facilities. I have stated this on another board and one or two people said they have been able to do it, the rest said they had never been able to do it.

I would hope and expect that there was prior experience with Jennifer overnighting personal items from work, otherwise, again, one of the most critical issues concerning Jennifer that morning, and after all these years there should be no murkiness about fundamentals such as those issues.

Much of my book Murder on a Horse Trail is about similar behavior from the DC police as the Orlando police displayed, but unending for week after week, months.

There can be nothing more frustrating for the family and friends than that reluctance to take a missing woman seriously, and this site exists primarily for that reason. My deepest sympathies for what all of Jennifer's loved ones have gone through as they endure what Jennifer went through.

rd

[jane]

Offhand, I would say that Jennifer likely planned to ship the phone before work. If she planned to send it from work she would have had a regular morning which would have included phoning or texting her boyfriend. On the other hand, if she planned to ship the phone before work, she would have left early. She may have felt it was too early to call her boyfriend, that she would do so after shipping the phone. Since there were no signs of a struggle or anything amiss in her apartment, and we know that an unidentified (so far) man used her car, it seems she was abducted getting into her car first thing in the morning or as she was about to get out of her car at a parcel shipping depot.
_________________
"There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."
Christ

[rd]

I agress with that, jane. That's my take also.

rd

[Rainbow]

Hi RD, UCF, and Jane!
So, from what you have been saying, it appears that RD has been leaning more towards the wake-up calls being more closely connected with Jennifer's wake-up timeline and UCF is more convinced that the regular wake-up calls have been more closely aligned to her boyfriend, Rob's, wake-up timeline. Have I understood you both correctly, or not?

[jane]

Hi Rainbow - I am guessing Jennifer usually called her boyfriend just before leaving for work. And that she left early that last day, making it too early to call him before leaving - probably planned to call him after shipping the phone, which unfortunately never came to pass.
_________________
"There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."
Christ

[Rainbow]

Hi Jane!
I find it "too much" of a coincidence that Jennifer went missing, while trying to return someone's cell phone, which they requested she return. I think the perpetrator is someone who knew that she was supposed to overnight the cell phone.

[Rainbow]

I also believe that someone was "casing" her place. The same was the case in the "well-planned" kidnapping, removal, and murder of Chandra Levy. She had also mentioned that she felt that someone had been following her.