www.justiceforchandra.com

[jane]

Wow - very interesting, rd and case.
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"There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."
Christ

[Rainbow]

Hi all!
I agree, Jane! I think I saw an interview with either Chandra's friend or the person who heard the "scream". It may have been the same person. Anyway, her face was blacked out on the television screen, so she couldn't be identified. That made me think of some of the other elements of the case and feelings of fear that have pervaded aspects of this case.
I have another question: Are we sure that it was Chandra's computer history that was analyzed and not someone else's?

[rd]

yeah, Rainbow, I think we can be sure. I analyze the timestamping aspects of this in chapter On Her Computer. The timestamp on email sent from the computer at 10:30 or so that morning matching the email arriving in California at same time can't be faked ahead of time.

case, as far as I can tell Chandra had an answering machine on her apartment landline. I never saw any information about voice mail left on her cell phone. All the messages left by family was on the answering machine, the tape was full and wouldn't take any more messages after a few days after she disappeared.

This is the significance of it. Phone calls to a cell phone are tracked. Local phone calls on a land line, at least at that time, were not tracked and listed on a bill. Of course, depending on model of phone, numbers calling and date/time could be stored if phone had a digital display.

I never saw any information given for the land line concerning that.

Chandra would call her answering machine to see if she had messages, and play back the message. I had a similar answering machine at one time, perhaps even at that time, I can't recall.

Why no voice mail? Well, as Condit did when he called Anne Marie Smith from a payphone outside a closed McDonald's at midnight in Luray, Condit operated with non-traceable, plausible deniability secrecy. (At least so he thought so, until Anne Marie picked up the pay phone number on her new digital cell phone caller id.)

He did not call Chandra's cell phone, he called her answering machine, on a local line, and she called a phone number, the "girlie" line, that played elevater music and didn't identify when asking to leave a message.

It is with this that Condit gave his first story about Chandra, that she called him repeatedly and he had to refuse to return her calls because she was obsessed and maybe a little crazy and suicidal when he wouldn't return her calls. But she called when he told her to, by leaving an essentially non-traceable call to her landline and leaving a message on her answering machine.

It is the frequent calls from her cell phone to her own landline checking for a message left on her answering machine which was interpreted as hounding Condit with 20 calls a day at the end. But she was waiting on a message from him, and I believe she got it after he came away from the White House on Monday with a meeting scheduled with Cheney for the next day at 12:30.

If there is something in this that I don't understand and have wrong, I will tell you it's the level best I could come up with wildly different reporting on the phone calls. And no one seems too interested in setting the story straight.

The book has been out five years now, and no one has cared to explain it if I got any of it wrong. I'm not surethat anyone has both the information and inclination to understand it.

One significant conclusion to draw is that the laptop was used withmost probably a dial up internet connection, and the phone line used would be the apartment landline. That means that for Chandra to be on the landline all morning means she wasn't expecting a call from Condit, and that she knew when they were meeting or at least when the landline needed to be made available for a call.

And she logged off just when Condot would have told her he would be available the next day, after his meeting with Cheney he had asked for and which would only last a few minutes.

Actually after asking for an immediate meeting for next day, he talked about nothing to Cheney. That should have been a red flag to an investigator that Condit asked for a last minute meeting for the day his suddenly confrontational mistress disappeared, and used that 20 minute meeting as an implied three hour alibi during the time Chandra disappeared.

When confronted by the three hours claim, something no one who asks questions were supposed to see until his staffer accidentally handed it out to ABC's Rebecca Cooper when she asked for it, Condit's spokesperson released a statement saying the meeting was for 45 minutes and that cleared Condit for when Chandra disappeared.

What did Condit know to stretch the 20 minute meeting to 45 minutes, till 1:15 pm, to make that claim?

rd

[jane]

rd wrote

[rd]

Yes, jane, where he would then tell her in person when they would meet, for example when to come over to his apartment, rather than leave an incriminating voice mail or even call her cell phone leaving a logged call from his number that would have been found, for example, when her phone bills were looked at by police and reporters.

From the information given, I don't see how Chandra could have called Condit several times during the week that Chandra's parents were in DC area when Condit said he went home to Californa for two week Easter recess unless he was still in DC. The calls stop on Friday one week into the recess, and that's when I think he went home.

They completely stop, she never even called his girlie line again from her cell phone. After she asked him about Jennifer Thomas, or told him her mother was asking, all calls from her cell phone stop as if she was ordered to go into deep undercover.

All communications would have had to have been by untraceable land line, for example, the "1 minute" call he said he had with her on Sunday which resulted in a message left for her aunt that she had big news.

Big news, by the way, she did not share with her parents, so undoubtedly was related to Condit.

rd

[Phantom]

It's insulting to me that the police, FBI, etc. think the public is that stupid that we would believe what obviously is a frame. This crime was planned to the "t," I think it involved a professional hit, and I think those involved were well aware of the other assaults happening around Rock Creek Park. It made this hit convenient for them. Where is the concrete evidence? All we have so far is heresay and -- what? What does Chandra's aunt have to say? I can only hope and pray that a top notch lawyer who sees through this charade will offer his/her services. This is such a miscarriage of justice -- the whole thing, from start to finish, and I bet you, we are not the only ones who feel this way.
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Sometimes you have to spend years of your life pursuing justice. It's frustrating, it's angering, and sometimes it feels hopeless. But if you don't do it, who will? Go for it, be different -- be one of the people who makes a difference in this world.

[rd]

It is insulting, Phantom. Can't believe there's too many that think the prosecution can put the two inmates on the stand (and if they only bring the latest one out, the defense needs to bring the first one out themselves, he's listed in the arrest affadavit to justify the charges) and expect anyone to believe them after telling their story a couple of times, once for the prosecution and then again for the defense, explaining in great detail how this came about.

As far as the planning on the murder, Guandique had yet to assault the first jogger in Rock Creek Park when Chandra disappeared. I assure you that if there was a planned attempt to link Chandra's murder to Guandique's assaults on Beach Road, she wouldn't have been hidden hundreds of feet below Ridge Road over a massive hill from Beach Road.

She would have been dumped as most bodies are dumped in Rock Creek Park, fairly obvious to see and in this case along Beach Road off of a jogging path. That's in fact the scenario the police want to present but can't quite get there with the facts.

Chandra was hidden by someone who knew her well, someone who knew that portion of Rock Creek Park well, say someone who lived less than two miles away, even closer than Guandique, someone who was a serious cyclist who wouldn't be a stranger to Ridge Road, and someone who was sophisticated in his knowledge of bondage and unknowingly displayed it when trussing up Chandra with her own leggings to simulate an assault in the park.

Someone who needed to simulate a robbery as part of the assault but couldn't risk pawning the jewelry to show a robbery, someone who had a career threatening motive to silence Chandra, someone who had a car to drive up to Ridge Road to hide her body, someone who wasn't a petty thief who assaulted other women with Walkmans because Chandra's was left with her body, someone who Chandra wanted to see so she didn't have to be kidnapped in a street abduction between the Newport and the train or gym, someone who didn't want Chandra's body found for as long as possible for all evidence to be destroyed by nature, maybe someone who was in cave country in the middle of Virginia at midnight during the workweek for some unknown reason a few days after Chandra disappeared, and someone who has no alibi for Tuesday afternoon, May 1, when Chandra disappeared.

Then the prosecutors would have a circumstantial case.

rd

[fallout]

Remind me RD..

Why couldn't someone copy and paste a flight schedule, look up Chandra's parents in the sent mail folder and send it to them with no comment or small talk at 10:30am. ?

And. who ever sends emails without some comment? I know I never do.

James

[Phantom]

Perfectly stated, rd. You need to be on the defense team, if you're not already. Do you ever wonder how many other interns who have gone missing over the years might be connected to Chandra's murder? It doesn't seem like someone's first murder, does it.
_________________
Sometimes you have to spend years of your life pursuing justice. It's frustrating, it's angering, and sometimes it feels hopeless. But if you don't do it, who will? Go for it, be different -- be one of the people who makes a difference in this world.

[rd]

I hope that the Guandique lawyers will read this thread carefully, Phantom. They seem pretty sharp from statements I've seen, so I think they will convey these points well.

I don't know about other interns, but the connections and parallels between Joyce Chiang and Condit and Chandra are chilling. That's why I'm not surprised the DC police insist that Joyce threw herself into the river rather than pursue them.

That whole email thing is really interesting, fallout. I'll be honest I didn't understand at first until one of our veteran posters pieced it together for us.

These were flight fare notifications from an airline for flights between Sacramento and Los Angeles. It had to do with the family going to her USC graduation on May 11.

Chandra had five months earlier gotten flight tickets to California and back from Condit. Up until two weeks before she disappeared, she would have expected to do the same, with the flights being to and from San Francisco where Condit flew because of the leeway it gave him for affairs (Anne Marie Smith, Joleen Argentini McKay for starters).

But when her parents came to DC, and Chandra pressed Condit for an explanation to her mother about Jennifer Thomas, all of a sudden Chandra wasn't needing a round trip ticket. The BOP told her her internship was over.

Certainly she expected the tickets from Condit as before. She planned on marrying him. But when her internship ended to her disbelief, she only needed a one way ticket. And she wasn't making any reservations or even telling her parents when and how she would be getting home, even when they asked somewhat urgently in her last phone call with them on Friday evening.

She didn't know, and there's a reason she didn't know. And that reason is Condit.

But she was either thinking of her parents and their family's flight to Los Angeles for her graduation or they asked her to keep an eye out for a good fare, because she had a search notification for supersaver fares with Southwest. And she got one sometime before Tuesday morning at 10:45 am Washington DC time.

It was forwarded from her email account at 10:45 am, arriving in Modesto at 7:45 am their time. Depending upon whether the email account was web based or email client based (Outlook and such) determines whether it came from her PC or not, or an entry in her browser history that indicates she went to her web email site.

I haven't seen details of her email account. Los Angeles Times reports that the email was forwarded from her computer without providing details how they know that. Police say the subpoenaed her ISP to get the emails. They would be there whether web or client based but not on her PC if she used web based email interface.

So technically enough information hasn't been provided to determine that Chandra didn't use an email client and instead used a web email interface, and that technically anyone knowing her password could log in to her web email account and do something like forward an email to her parents, without being on her computer, and no one would know unless the ISP retained log in IP addresses long enough to know the IP address accessing the web email account.

They did know the time of log in and log out that day, they did provide her emails to the police, so it's a real stretch for someone to be on her computer and someone else access her email account, but just need to clarify what is technically known from reported information.

Of course with more information the police haven't released, there would be less ambiguity.

The concept of forwarding an email without comment to her parents, after four days since talking to them and having big news for her aunt Linda, was something that just didn't make sense to me, so I thought I misunderstood.

Is it an indication it wasn't Chandra? That can be argued.

Is it that Chandra didn't know what to tell her parents yet, so didn't say anything?

Or that Chandra was planning on picking up a flight ticket to San Francisco from Condit later that day and didn't want to alarm her parents about it?

I think there's a strong argument for that.

But there was no comment, no emails from her to anyone, no phone calls to anyone, no contact with anyone, no one ever saw her.

In my opinion, the forwarded email without comment wouldn't be enough to establish that it was Chandra on her computer that morning, and that she wasn't kidnapped at 4:30 am outside the Newport, at least as far as establishing reasonable doubt that Chandra was already assaulted before anyone ever allegedly saw Guandique on Beach Road.

rd

[Phantom]

rd, I know you can't speak for Levys, but -- do you really think they believe Guandique is guilty?

[laskipper]

From listening to the Robert and Susan Levy on various interviews- it's seems obvious (to me) that they do not believe Guandique is guilty.

Susan mentioned the 'scream' on one of the interviews. That tells me that she leaves open the option that Chandra was removed from her apartment in the middle of the night ...


ls
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A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves
~
French philosopher Bertrand de Jouvenel (1903-1987)

[rd]

skipper is probably right, but I have no insight into what the Levys are thinking, other than sure they are going through the grieving process again over Chandra's loss as they told a reporter.

I think that they are like most people who are involved with the process and have to trust the process to work, they will let justice run its course through the courts and see what is presented and what the judge and jury determine, and they will trust that the system will determine justice for their daughter's murder.

We just have to make sure that process knows the facts to make the correct determination.

rd

[caseinpt]

rd--

So I understand it correctly, Condit would call from a public phone line to Chandra's land line with a message to call his girlie line. At that pt, Chandra would call from her Land line to his girlie line and then talk in person on that connection. Is that right? If so.

Wouldnt Condit be taking a risk of leaving a message on her answering machine right before she dissappeared? If found, he would be accountable for a conversation just 12 - 18 hours before she dissappeared. Unless he left a signal of some kind, like three tones, to signal to call him.

My guess is that if she was abducted there was no reason to leave a message at all. Why add more complexity?

I really think no matter how this all panned out, no message was left for Chandra to meet in Rock Creek Park. If she was abducted, there is no need to. Why bother take the risk? No matter how secretive the method that the (meeting location) message was delivered to her, you cannot control the fact that Chandra on a whim of suspicion, could have written some notes down to protect herself or call her Aunt up and share the latest details. That is far too risky for the attacker(s). So no message IMHO.

Either she was abducted or she truly went for a 9 mile walk (which I frankly dont believe for a second). If she went for a simple walk to cool her head, she would have taken her cell phone--not to mention all the other reasons you cite in your book.

[sigsky]

Connie Chung was on TV today discussing her interview with Gary Condit. I didn't see it but my mother told me about it. I asked her if Chung seemed skeptical about recent developments and she said she did. What I have found online doesn't give any details.

I downloaded and read the affidavit filed to get the arrest warrant. It makes a good circumstantial case. Most of the things in it that would make our jaws drop will be easily overlooked by the press or an unenlightened jury such as the premiss that Chandra's murder occurred in the park.

I am disappointed at the lack of skepticism that I am seeing in the media. Everyone seems relieved that this is at last being resolved. Criticism of the press is focused on the lack of referring to Gaundique as an "illegal".

Unless Guandique has a very good defense, I think he gets convicted and a few people breath a big sigh of relief.