www.justiceforchandra.com

[Nan]

Hi Rd -

I don't know much more about the "upset outside the school office" girl. It's really old news - the tip came in relatively early after Joanna disappeared. Joanna is pretty striking in appearance, so people tend to remember when they see her. Of course, the girl could have mis-remembered. Sometimes wanting to be able to help can cause one's mind to play tricks. A lot of her classmates were pretty upset about her disappearance, I'm told. My memories about this issue are very hazy, sorry. But I am positive that this was investigated. They haven't had a lot to go on, so they have gone back over things they've already investigated and done it again, I believe.

As to the people Joanna worked for. I'm sorry, I can't address that - I simply don't know. Subway is a national chain, and these type of stores tend to be owned by a local or regional franchisee who pays for the use of the name and all things associated with the store. I would assume the employees were high school aged kids who got minimum wage for their work (or maybe slightly older). I'm not absolutely sure the it was or was not the manager who lawyered up. I'm wanting to say the manager was a woman. But, again, I haven't heard anything on this in a very long time and could be remembering incorrectly. But I distinctly remember hearing that a male who worked there directly with Joanna did "lawyer up" and clam up. And I remember with about 80% certaintly that I was told that Joanna did not like her manager. And a friend of hers did write that Joanna did not like working at the shop. Afraid that's all I have for you on any of that.

I'm sorry, I don't remember if I posted about Summer Baldwin's killer. They indicted him on capital murder, since an unborn child was involved. His lawer, a while back, tried to make some sort of public argument that it was self defense, since Summer owned a couple of small knives. It's Texas, it's pretty open and shut. He'll fry. I'll applaud.

Nothing yet on the Maury clip. Hope you got to see it while it was a live link. If not, fingers are crossed that they'll let us post it.

One thing about chains and posters. There were some chains that were incredibly helpful. Walmart works directly with the NCMEC, and they had posters up almost immediately. There were some chains of truck stops that offered tips on how and where to place posters, and some picked up the tab for printing. Flying J, I think, even gave stacks of flyers to any trucker who would take them and post them on their routes. So, it's not all chains. Just some of the more "corporate" ones that were stuffy about how their front windows looked.

The family also had a real hard time getting the survailance videos from the store. That's a long story that doesn't need to be hanged out in public, but I will never eat at a Subway for the rest of my life, even if it's the only place in town that's open and I haven't eaten in days. And was free. Or they paid me.
_________________
Please remember Joanna, and all those who've gone missing. BringJoHome.info

[Nan]

Oh. My. Gawd.

Did you folks see this one out of Arizona?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/09/sex.slave.ap/index.html
_________________
Please remember Joanna, and all those who've gone missing. BringJoHome.info

[bodsangel]

That out of Arizona is aweful. as is the deal with Subway. They should be ashamed of themselves!

[rd]

excerpt from CNN:

Gray was booked on hundreds of counts, including sexual assault, kidnapping and child prostitution. Butler was booked on kidnapping, child prostitution and other charges.

Both were being held without bond.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press


They will not see the light of day unfettered by bars for decades.

rd

[bodsangel]

people or should i say monsters like that should NEVER see the light of day. and we shouldn't have to support them while they aren't seeing it, in my honest opinion. (but then again i live in west texas--the last of the wild west) LOL ;)

[peripeteia]

This is very distrubing!!! Also on line here, posted by gozgal is a report of a sting with on line dating, of young girls, several dudes showed up, one naked, one a rabbi, at the address given, thinking they would meet young pretty STUIP girls to have sex with but indeed, they met a TV commentator a la camera crew in the kitchen. Caught Live! One wonders who Joanna might have meet on line, or even Jennifer for that matter, although not likely in Jennifer's case.

Also we do not know what became of Jennifer and Joanna, and so many other hundreds, and likely thousands of young girls and boys have gone missing, many likely dead. Maura Murray and the many others not named.

The laws must change, many laws, regulations, methology of solving murders abductoions, etc, Only by partnering law enforcements state to state and federally . Car Jacking was made a federal offense. Probation laws and regulations must change, the insides of the prison system, priveledges granted to prisoners regarding computers, and work programmes and many other areas of prison. A Law reform is needed!


The fifth ammendment should have stricter guidelines. The guidelines that a District attorney follows must be the same, the first power of a grand jury lies within the jurisdiction of the grand jury, not the DA, in order for any justice to prevail in criminal cases. That is if the evidence gatherrd clearly shows that a grand jury should be call, so one should, the DA is not to interfer with these process unless national security or protocol. Gary Condit should not have been permitted to claim the fifth to the D.A.

The fourth ammendment cannot be allowed to keep someone off a property is a person is missing or presumed dead, a person must cooperate with the police. The fourth ammendment goes way too far in protecting suspects and those that are guilty of an offense.

For example, that Gary Condit was excused by the Washington, D.C. District Attorney, and did not have to answer to his whereabouts, he did not have to give testimony and answer very relevant questions which the public is demanding to know, this should never have been allowed. What does one call this???????!!!!!

The grand jury should be resumed, and Gary Condit obligated to anwser questions surrounding his alibi, and why he witheld information regarding her whereabouts to the Levees and the police. The Levees called and stated Chandra was missing, May 5th. Gary then waits from May 5st. until August 23, 2001 to reveal this information to the Levees about the train, which they hear for the first time in answer to Connie Chung's questioning on the ABC network. Gary then waits 2 days before contacting the police with this information about Chandra missing, and neglects to say that she would likely be on the train? This was his duty as a Congressman, and a Bloody obligation as Chandra's lover.

The D.A. in Mass, hid evidence or ignorned it in the Mosley Murder, he was a friend of the Kennedy famiy. Once the D.A. retired, along comes the Sleuth, Mark Fhurman, ....and goes after this evidence like a dog to a bone, and low and behold, a grand jury is call and indited for Mosley's is Kennedy.


These occurences must be changed, not to mention the punishments, surround the death of innocents, and sexual deviants, in all forms, including, pornography, and prostituion against the innocents. State and Federal cooperation must immediately begin in these areas of crime.

The laws regarding excecution, life sentences, and parole need to be examined and changed. Those who murder innocents, shoud be executed, those who torture and sexually assault innocents need to go to prison for a very very very long time, there should be no bail for these kind of assaults, those also who threaten to kill innocents, these should be handled partnered with the Federal Government. All Laws must be the same, all punishments equal for the same offense.

The number of missing, murdered and rapped innocents in North America is mind boggling, The Rape of the Innocents is what I'll remember of the beginning of the 21 century

The irony of countries sending troops to war to protect themselves from the enemy, when their real enemy lies within, and no one is protecting the innocent!?
_________________
A vision sent me on the path of seeking justice for Chandra, nothing I've seen in print to date has diminished the vividness but only served to reaffirm the validity of this vision.

[TJ]

[rd]

I for one agree for the most part, TJ, although the way we have dealt with drugs by making it as expensive contraband as we can rarely leaves anyone victimless because drug addicts have to come up with a lot of money for their habit.

As for jail cells, I propose in chapter Woman Missing in Murder on a Horse Trail that we build as many cheap cells in the desert as we need.

What the vast majority of us want to do is short circuited by narrow minded "we can't do this because" people trotting out status quo figures and ruling out anything different. We have to get past the naysayers, which may or may not include any particular legislator, and put into place people who will make it happen.

As for the war, we have had a heated discussion in Misc, Other News forum for the past two years on this. We try to keep politics there and out of the missing women cases or at least limited to the politics of dealing with criminals as discussed above. Hopefully we'll have our troops home soon and we can concentrate on those things that Eisenhower said so well.

rd

[Nan]

That tv show that taped all the pervs showing up to a house to have sex with a teen girl was on last night. The Rabbi who showed up looked like he was going to try to punch out the interviewer. It was truly astounding. A teacher, a Rabbi, all sorts of guys showed up. How tremendously sad.

The teacher has been fired. I don't know what they'll do to the Rabi. He's been on national TV, that oughta be enough. The rest... well, the show said that the guy who showed up naked was back online the next night looking for more girls. I bet someone has the gall to sue the tv show, too.

On drugs. I think the current "war on drugs" is back-asswards, to use a Texas phrase. No desire for drugs = no market. As long as people want them, there will always be a mechanism for the drugs to be made available. The more illegal, the higher the cost - both to the user and to society as a whole. There's too much money in running drugs, and greed is a powerful thing. Tends to breed violence. And corruption, and.... you know the rest. During Prohibition, some folks made millions sneaking bootleg liquor into the USA. Look at the Kennedys, for example. A rum-runner's grandkid made it into the White House. You don't get there without an ton of money and a ton of political and economic clout.

I would think it would be entirely more prudent to spend more of the "war on" money on trying to find out why people need to use them in the first place, and on treatment. Probably more cost-effective, too, but, what the hell... logic seems to have no place in DC.

Whatever.

Still nothing on Joanna.
_________________
Please remember Joanna, and all those who've gone missing. BringJoHome.info

[rd]

I agree entirely, Nan. Quite frankly, if the money ws taken out of it all we'd be left with are some people with problems as you describe needing to deal with above.

Ok, they have problems, but take all the money and intrigue out of it and reduce to the level of troubled people trying to fry their minds on pennies worth of drugs, then at least keep it to pennies while dealing with them, not to them.

That naked guy showing up the next evening trying to meet yet another kid shows that these are real sick people. He said he needed psychiatric help. These are dangerous men because they will kill to keep their victims silent and themselves out of jail.

They should not be roaming looking for victims once so identified. They need monitored to let them know we know where they are and what they're up to.

Then maybe girls like Joanna wouldn't disappear.

rd

[gozgals]

HI Nan:



On the Rabbi, A piece of scum in my opinion. I have been following this story and hopefully he will be let go, but a point of interest here in case anyone missed this tidbit.

This so-called first time RABBI- has been photographed in the past---

With known SEX-Offenders-so the big speech these boys give that it is the first time they have done this, is just pure bunk..They all should be locked up, even the one that claims and appears mentally ill.

Second, is the Montel link available? I tried to read it the other day but it was not available. I also saw that Kelly-- from Jason's blog printed that their was a psychic on the show on Joanna? I had the link but lost it. I have had some computer snags of late.

Has anything come out of this NAN? any help in anyway to locate these gals is a blessing.

The war on drugs will never end. Taking the supply means they will find a way to get more. I don't know how. In some treatment facilities, addicts sell their methadone to others who use it to cop drugs. It is a terminal situation. In prisons, the same situations occur. In some states, treatment programs are overcrowded. It is a dilemma that needs solutions and personally I do not know what they are. Self control could be one, and early treatment if one knows their child is indulging in any form of abuse. This I know works. I have seen parents do this and it has a good outcome.

I have a question to any Canadians though- I just learned the law of consent in Canada to have sex is 14-is this correct? This leaves me wondering what a this does for the state of affairs there. I know in other countries this is true from some of the internationals I know. This to me seems rather young, yet we prosecute in this country. I would like to get further explanation on what this means exactly. Does this mean a man of any age can have sex with a teenager?

Thanks and my prayers go out to Joanna and Jennifer.

Tougher laws are the only way to prevent crimes, and punishing criminals to the harshest extent. No freedom to commit again.

GG)

[laskipper]

As to the Rabbi in the Dateline story:

http://gloriabrame.typepad.com/inside_the_mind_of_gloria/2005/11/follow_up_on_fa.html

No charges expected against rabbi

Sadness and shock seem to be the most common reactions to the news that Rockville Rabbi David Kaye was ensnared in a Dateline NBC hidden camera investigation of sexual predators on the Internet.

A former rabbi at Potomac's Congregation Har Shalom, where he had worked for 16 years, Kaye resigned last week as vice president of program after three years at the Rockville-based teen educational group Panim: The Institute for Jewish Leadership and Values.

Leaders of both groups say that they never received a complaint about his behaving inappropriately with a child during his employment with their organizations....

Officer Bud Walker, public spokesperson, said that while it is a felony in Virginia to use the Internet to solicit sex with a minor, the commonwealth would not have jurisdiction in Kaye's case.

Dateline used people affiliated with an organization called Perverted Justice, whose volunteers pose as children online in order to expose potential Internet predators. But those volunteers were based in Michigan, said Walker. Kaye and many of the others caught up in the sting lived in Maryland, leaving Virginia without the ability to prosecute.

Walker called Perverted Justice's methods problematic.

The self-styled "watchdog group" says that it turns over chat logs and other information it gathers to the police. Critics, and even Dateline, have labeled the organization a group of vigilantes.

Walker said the organization uses tactics that Fairfax police officers are not permitted to employ when going undercover as children on the Internet. For instance, Walker noted that the Fairfax police can "never make initial contact" with a potential predator, but must "wait to be contacted," and can "never suggest any meeting."

He also pointed out that cases using Perverted Justice information are difficult to prosecute in court, since the police cannot guarantee that Perverted Justice has provided the complete transcripts of the alleged conversations.....
_________________
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves
~
French philosopher Bertrand de Jouvenel (1903-1987)

[jane]

14 is pretty young - but it is only for when both people are close in age - doesn't allow older people to prey on young people (not sure exactly what the parameters are).

[gozgals]

I do not do know if you your statement is for or against preverted justice laskipper but I believe in what purpose they serve. Your opinion is yours and that is why we have an opinion society and I respect other opinions.

As to the Rabbi, Yes, and I will stand by this fact: He was photographed on TV with a group of sexual predators, and even if this was not the case, it does not matter, the truth is in the pudding. He is a predator! His past means chit to me. He is a hunter, lurker, prevert, etc. I do not have the picture, but i'm sure if you doubt this, you may contact the stations.

It really makes no difference in anyway. He was there in the flesh, no pretending.

I like what preverted justice does. It stops them in their tracks. Lets me clear here. Nobody forces anyone to get on the internet to look for boys, or girls, no matter if a decoy is playing the child. It is their choice to indulge in this sick behavior.

I saw a segment on Abrams "BLAMING THE CHILD/TEENAGERS". ANY FOOL WHO DOES THAT, IS A FOOL, AND CARES NOTHING FOR CHILDREN.

The Rabbi, the policeman, any of them, should have been proscuted. A world without hunters, and harmers is a safer world. I think of all these people (those perverts- FIRST TIMERS (HUH) who eventually scar children for life).

GG)

[jane]

Goz - what skipper posted is an article, so I assume she agrees with parts of it and disagrees with parts (at least, that is often the case when I post an article).