www.justiceforchandra.com

[jane]

I wonder whether surveillance tapes from either the sandwich or smoke shop were seized by police - could have revealed something if, as rd suggested, the same person was stalking both girls.

[Nan]

The family has the tape for the night Joanna disappeared. They have gone over it in freeze-frame detail. That's as far as I know about tapes, sorry!
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Please remember Joanna, and all those who've gone missing. BringJoHome.info

[jane]

That's good that Jo's family has the tape for the night she disappeared (if it was someone stalking over time, he might not even be on it that night, though.) It would be interesting to see whether the two businesses shared a frequent customer.

[bodsangel]

Just wanted to say that I live in Lubbock and follow the cases of Jo and Jenn as well. Although the girls are missing from here and that is a very horrible thing to have happened, life in Lubbock isn't as bad as it seems having read the posts here recently. The population of Lubbock is over 200,000. No that isn't a major huge city but it isn't quite the small town either. I do attend one of the universities here and no the old air base isn't an old folks place. It is the site of a college and a training facility for the law enforcement in this area. Unfortunatly both girls could have gone outside to meet a friend (at least in their eyes) as most teenagers will. Even if it is against what they have been taught, and against the rules. The case of Summer Baldwin was terrible, but it has no link according to the most recent reports, to either Jenn or Jo. There are cases just like these in San Antonio as well as every other city and state in this Nation. I watch my children closely and pray daily that something will happen to break open the cases of these two girls. I don't know that there isn't a serial kidnapper or killer on the lose and I pray there isn't. You can't be sure that there isn't one living right next door to you anywhere that you are. If you want to read another horrible story go to www.projectjason.org read the story about Jennifer Wix and her daughter Adrianna . the last person to see them was Jenn's boyfriend and Adrianna's Dad. No leads, no clues and they haven't been allowed to search the property where the girls lived in Tennessee. There is a case from Georgetown, TX. A college student home went for her usual run only to have never been seen or heard from again. Jo is also on this site. I only mention these to say that it isn't just here in Lubbock. Georgetown is a small community outside of Austin. Cross Plains, TN isn't very big either. I continue to pray daily for all our missing people of all ages. May God bless them and bring them home.

[peripeteia]

Bodsangel:

If we have painted a blackened picture of Lubbock, certainly this was and is not our intent, we all realize that evil lurks outside our own doors. We 100,000 missing Americans more than likely someone is missing from our own communities. The World Health Organization says that the nicest and safest place to live is in my very back yard, and there are two women missing from here, one in 2002 and the other in 1972 and there is an unsolved murder of a gay man in 2002. No where is safe from the ravishings of the sexual predator, and people on mind altering substances.

One thing that keeps repeating, that the 4th ammendment rights are a little much, such as the property where the women lived, Jen and Adrianna are not allowed to be searched in Tennessee. Something is all wrong there, that a person's right to privacy excess the right of the family to search a place where their relatives are missing. Go figure. This is not what privacy laws are about, they were not designed to protect the guilty.

In Canada, we would have no right to keep the police off our property if it was suspected that someone was buried on our property, nor do we have an expectation of privacy in this regard. Yes we could refuse, but the police would get a search warrant, and secondly, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police would be at our place for breakfast, dinner and supper, they would tear our lives apart. They would be down the street from where we live, where we work and where we play. They would not leave us alone. Because of our limited right to privacy, we would not likely bury a murdered person on our property because we know that sooner or later the police would be at our front door, especially if we were the last person to see a missing person alive, it would be best if we simply gave a polygraph and allowed law enforcement to search our property when it was requested. We can refuse, but this would be an admission of guilty and somehow and someway the police would get their warrant. It may take awhile, but law enforcement would find a way. The police would not stop at a warrant to search, they are also likely to tap our phone at home and at work. The last thing in the world I'd ever do is toy with the RCMP!
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A vision sent me on the path of seeking justice for Chandra, nothing I've seen in print to date has diminished the vividness but only served to reaffirm the validity of this vision.

[bodsangel]

Although I have lived in the states all of my life, I have to say that maybe we should adopt some of Canada's laws. (The one you spoke of about the privacy is what I was thinking of) Yes, I do value my own privacy but with the number of missing people there should be no reason that LE can't search a property. There is a lady missing in San Antonio and she has been for about 6 yrs or so. Everyone believes the husband did it and for some reason the police haven't searched his home either. Her children were told she just left around Christmas and that is the only answer they have. The police did search all the land including my mom's out near where her van was found. But not her own home and yard. It just doesn't make any sense to me. If I can find the story I will post a link to it so that you can read for yourself. I understand the pain of a missing loved one. My brother-in-law went missing in 2000 and his body was luckly recovered so that we could put him to rest. But that is a different story of it's own.
Praying daily that our loved ones will be returned soon, bodsangel

[rd]

Thanks for that insight, bodsangel. That's why I think it is significant that the two young women who disappeared were store personnel on the same main drag in SE Lubbock area and lived nearby. I'll repost a map I made that shows this:





This is not all of Lubbock, just the SE corner. I consider this a serial abduction of young women. Based on the info provided here in this thread, I have mapped Joanna's house, Jennifer's boyfriend's house (Daily Electric is start of 2400 block of 118th St.), Joanna's job at Subway, and Jennifer's job at a smoke shop.

I have the route going from Joanna's to Jennifer's to show the short distance between their houses where they were last seen. You can see that Joanna would have just driven straight across to to her job at Subway nearby.

I hope it helps people see the connection in what otherwise I am sure is a wonderful Americn town to live in.

rd
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ralph@ee.net

[bodsangel]

RD
Thanks again for the map although since I live in the same town I know the areas well. I have been to both places of employment in fact I had a friend who worked for the same subway chain. I don't know that these cases are related or not. There is enough similarities to scare you and doubt the police when they say they aren't related. Then again there is enough to lead you to believe they aren't related. I just hope that they find the girls and who ever did this and get them off the streets. I am no more afraid to walk to my car in the dark here than I was in San Antonio when I lived there. Of course it makes you more aware of your surroundings and of where your loved ones are. I was a part of the teams searching for Jo and Jenn and I still look daily at everyone I see. I have family and friends all over the US and they are doing the same. I hope whoever knows what has happened to them will give in to their conscience and bring them home.
Praying for our loved ones return, Bodsangel

[peripeteia]

bodsangel:

I'm curious to know what the word is on the streets, taxi drivers, hairdressers, the locals, what is their theory about what has become of Joanna and Jennifer? One burning question is do the locals feel that these cases are related? Just curious as the people who usually have a pulse on what is going on in any area are the people who wait on other people, in coffee shoppes, in bars, at bus stations, the usual run of the mill service occupations. The city where I come from is about the same size, and when I wanted to know what was going on, I visit convenience stores and local bars, in the area and ask what was their opinion of what happened as usually everyone has an opinion especially in crimes that make us suspect about our neighbours/community.
_________________
A vision sent me on the path of seeking justice for Chandra, nothing I've seen in print to date has diminished the vividness but only served to reaffirm the validity of this vision.

[bodsangel]

peripeteia,
From what I have heard the police are saying there is no evidence that the 2 cases are related. when asked about the similarities they don't have much to say except they are checking into everything. Yet they won't say they aren't related either. I don't think they really know what to think.
As for the other people in town: at first people wondered if Jo decided to run away or maybe just went out for a visit with friends the way teenagers will. I think the main thing said was did the girls know each other and did they meet someone online and decide to finally meet in person. We know from experience that people online aren't always what they say they are, and hope this isn't the case with the girls. The question has been asked if Jenn's boyfriend was involved in either or both of these cases. I know he was questioned but I don't know for sure if the police cleared him absolutely. Having followed both cases I can't rule out that the same person or people did this. But I have to wonder if maybe it isn't a serial because there hasn't been anymore go missing. I hope that they are both safe and sound and just scared to come back home. I remember hearing about a college girl who disappeared a few years ago and they found her alive and well in another state. I can't remember the details but it was in the summer that this came about. The girl just didn't want to be found and so she started a new life somewhere else. From what I know about Jo and Jenn (and I didn't know them before this happened) seem to have been planning to leave. Mainly now I think everyone is afraid to talk about it. Maybe they are afraid of saying something that will hurt the families. Maybe they are afraid that whoever is responsible will come back again. I can't say for sure. I have heard people argue both ways on this being a serial and of the girls just leaving on their own. I just wish somehow they could get a message back to their loved ones. (and I don't agree with the psychic telling Jo's mom that she was probably alive. although this is everyone's wish I hate to see a person's hopes get smashed again and again.)
Praying our loved ones return home safe, bodsangel

[rd]

That sounds like a really good take on the situation, bodsangel. One thing I think that should be a given is that these women didn't run away.

In the end, though, that's all that can be hoped for, even by the families. That's the saddest part of this tragedy.

rd

[bodsangel]

rd,
In my heart I don't believe these girls ran away either. And you are right that is waht makes this so sad. The not knowing is worse than the ending I think. At least it was for my family when my brother-in-law was taken and murdered and dumped in another state. I keep praying and that is all we can do. I see the teenage girls that are in some of my classes at the university and it saddens me to know that Jo isn't experiencing the same. I just keep going back to the same question as you and I think everyone here does.... why didn't the dogs bark? Has anyone heard what is going on with the list from her AOL account? I know the police made the comments that they were going to contact each and every one on that list. I think there was around 100 if the media is accurate. Then again there are lots on my list I haven't spoken to in 6 months or so.
bodsangel

[TJ]

[rd]

That's good to hear, TJ. That's something we should admire, when someone is willing to take a polygraph to help the police narrow their investigation, especially when you have to go against the advice of lawyers who are telling you not to.

As for investigating the buddy list, to me that's like the police theoretically needing to investigate evey sexual predator within the area. Makes sense, but very hard to do. Some people may have an alibi, many will say they were with other people who would lie for them, the rest were watching tv or in bed, in fact eveyone would be in bed at 3:30 in the moring. So where does all that effort get you? Nowhere.

To break in and find a room that Joanna is in, much less the house she lived in to start with, and on top of that travelling from some city hundreds of miles away to do it, is practically an impossibility. Elizabeth Smart's abductor had done work in the Smart's house (although I recall she was in a sister's bedroom that night and this guy still allegedly found her, but I digress), and poor little Jessica Lunsford was stolen from her home by a deviant who was staying with a relative across the street and would know where her bedroom was.

Just breaking in by someone who lived in Lubbock, mvoing through her house and finding her, then kidnapping her is practically out of the question. She had to have gone out of the house to meet someone, I suspect shortly after she got home from work and went to her room.

I suspect it had to be someone in their twenties who didn't look and act that much older than her (or who fooled her as Taylor Behl's murderer did) for her to do that, and he may very well be gone from Lubbock now. I understand being a university town that there is quite a turnover in population in Lubbock each school year.

rd

[bodsangel]

I don't know how big of a turn over there is here. Due to summer sessions school goes almost year round. there are a few weeks where I am sure alot of the kids go back to their hometowns, but more and more Lubbock natives are attending the schools here. We have at least 3 other colleges here besides the MAIN university and there is also the Army Reserve Center which brings in many outsiders.
I do agree that it isn't likely that the person(s) responsible broke into the house. And that Jo went outside. That really hasnt been an argument that I have heard. In fact, I think from the begining it was said that she probably went outside for some unknown reason and that is where she was taken from. Children have been known to disappear from their vary own yards in broad daylight.
Having 6 sisters and not being an OLD maid myself, I can say that young teenage girls seem to thrive on the attention of older men. I have seen girls do what ever was asked of them by someone who was anywhere from 1 yr to 10 yrs older than they are. Some people hide their age well. I am not placing blame on either young lady here. I do not believe they or their families deserve such a horrible event to happen. For all we know this could have been done by someone her very own age. We have all heard the stories of young men wanting more than the girl does and it turns ugly.
As for the buddy list, I wasn't suggesting the bad guys are listed on there as such. I was only stating that maybe one of the girls had told a "buddy" that she had met someone online and was going to meet him/her.
I am glad that the boyfriend has cleared the poly. I hadn't heard the results on that and had been wondering. I knew the roommates had been questioned and seemed to have been cleared. Does anyone know if anything showed up on the tapes of either place? I know that they were looking at them but hadn't heard if anyone keeps showing up at both places?