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HOTG 2007 Street View and POI puts on backpack?

 
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to show you this one. It is a Google street view screen shot from 2007. I don't think the quality is caused by my computer, so I guess Google has really improved, huh?

I'm disappointed as I wanted to see the palm tree as it looked nearer to 2006. I do see it, but certainly not as clear as I wish.

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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, what a find. That gives people an excellent view from the other side of the POI stills, what it was like for the POI to be walking along there and stopping behind the palm tree to look back at Jennifer's car he had parked.

The tree has the same wispy look here as it does in the POI images. There's not much to see even with better quality.

Thanks for this nearer the time of Jennifer's disappearance Street View. That was around the time I visited too, 2007.


Blowup of Jennifer Kesse person of interest / suspect

click to read the online true crime mystery novel Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy

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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
RD wrote: Which brings us to the "parking carefully" so as not to be noticed analysis, where the car was said to have been parked once,
backed out, then parked again, the analysis being the car was being attempted to be parked perfectly within the lines so as not to
draw attention.

One look told me this guy was parking the closest, quickest spot to dump the car as soon as he pulled into the complex. So why
did he back out and repark? Unfamiliarity with Jennifer's car.

Cars have different turning radius, and some vary greatly as to how sharply they turn into a parking spot. Park a different car than
the one you're used to, and you may well practically pull in sideways. While he certainly wan't trying to hide it, he couldn't leave it
across two parking spots blocking a sidewalk either.
Quote:

I'm sure having visited the site gives you a much more accurate impression than I can get from horrible-quality video and Google street shots, so I wanted to get your opinion on something.

As I apparently like to waste my time, I went in and took screen shots from the Lohr video of the whole episode of the POI parking Jennifer's vehicle, backing it up, and re-parking it. I wanted to get a look at his antics and it happened so fast I decided a frame by frame view would work better.

Anyway, take a look at the first group of three shots (let's ignore the hour for now)--58:53; 58:56; and 58:57:

First: do you think he was really that crooked in the parking space? Take a look at the "little" blow-up on the bottom of the next group--59:06--does his position seem that different to you?

Second: it looks to me as if he fully backed-out of the spot taking a sharp right. Is that the way you would do it? Perhaps it's a male/female thing, but all I would do is back-up a bit until my wheels were straight and then pull back in.

This second group just shows him pulling back in and the approximate 32 seconds he spent inside Jennifer's vehicle began. It makes me think the whole thing was timed to have something to do with the "high noon" hour and planned, even to the point of being choreographed. I know that has a rather ridiculous ring to it, though.


I had always responded to the pulled out pulled back in carefully parked concern as not unexpected in an unfamiliar car. However, I had never been able to see anything concerning the actual parking. The "Lohr" version looks to me had some very good image work done it and kudos for that and your examination of it.

The Lohr video starts at 58:48 with what appears to me Jennifer's car already pulled in. I did a search to see what Jennifer Kesse surveillance videos were available and there are very few and very very uneven. If I recall correctly there was a link posted to a version put out by a crime show that didn't come up in my quick search.

Looking at the speeded up Lohr version referred to, starting at 58:48, I agree, the car is pulled out with wheels turned, and pulls back in appears to be same position.

58:48 Video starts with appears to be Jennifer's car pulled into parking space
58:54 Six seconds later, car starts backing out
58:56 Can now see headlights backing out
58:59 Seems to be fully backed out, tires are turned to right
59:03 Starts pulling back in
59:04 Pulled in completely
59:05 Headlights go out

So, pulls in, sits for 6 seconds, takes 5 seconds to back out, an extraordinary amount of time to back out of a parking space, sits for 4 seconds in the lane with wheels turned which is also a long time to sit doing that, and then pulls back in seemingly into same spot in same position and turns ignition off.

It is a ridiculously long time. He appears to be contemplating parking elsewhere, over in direction he came in from, and seemingly decides against it. I agree it is not straightening up the car in the parking spot, and not carefully parking at all as was conjectured by everyone.

We can speculate what he was thinking for 6 seconds to decide he didn't want to park there, starts to pull out, and over next 10 seconds reconsiders and pulls back in.

This should put an end to anyone saying he was familiar with the place and planned what he was doing with her car. This is some serious indecision.

Good catch on that sequence, Nancy.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was doing a search just now on CAM2 video I came across thoughts I had on it.

I spent a very few hours last summer doing some work like this to gauge height next to car but I certainly didn't produce anything this clean. Still, here's what I concluded.

At 12:59:43 CAM2 time POI emerges from car. I'm going to lower my estimate of POI height based on height compared to car versus the palm tree. It looks more like me standing next to the car, I'm 5'7. I would lower POI height estimate to 5'7 to 5'8 from 5'9 to 5'11 now that I've seen POI standing next to car.

The whiteness of the clothing as seen in the video is disconcerting. Even though I know it's infrared doing it it's difficult to mentally picture in darker clothes. I did think of something that should be done. I have through the years asked for the make, model, and settings of the gate camera so that I could test what kind of clothes show up as what. Well clearly after eleven years no one wants to give out that info.

But something better just occurred to me. The police had to go through at least a day's worth of surveillance of both cameras to find the POI images. They would have seen several people walking by gate for example. They would have been able to see whether POI clothes were abnormally light compared to others, I mean most people wouldn't be wearing all white. And they would know whether POI looked like most other people or was one of very few to be in very light colored clothing.

I would certainly hope that the surveillance tapes that were reviewed to get these images weren't discarded. This could be done even now and have a very good determination if POI was wearing white clothes while others looked normal darker colors than all white.

I did some very rough resizing and contrast adjustments to make out the POI figure better. Standing next to the car the POI is a solid build, not thin, not heavy. There is dark shading around his middle. This is not well defined like a belt but just a general wider dark shading around the middle.

Head and dark above head are visible. He extends his right arm and the arm is all white just like rest of his clothes. To me it is clear he is wearing a long sleeved shirt. It looks like a band of darkness around his wrist area.

Next image that I stopped on was at 12:59:44. Here his back is much darker. It looks to me like he slung a backpack type device over his back from :43 to :44 (image seconds are not very accurate as we saw with gate POI images). I have noted that equipment on his back in image 2 of gate images and it looks like he did sling that over his back when he got out of the car.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, RD. You catch more details than I do. Below I put the time stamped pictures in beside your comments so we could have a picture and comment side by side. Plus I added a few additions with comments. :)

RD Wrote: 58:48 Video starts with appears to be Jennifer's car pulled into parking space

RD Wrote: 58:54 Six seconds later, car starts backing out

RD Wrote: 58:56 Can now see headlights backing out

RD Wrote: 58:59 Seems to be fully backed out, tires are turned to right

RD Wrote: 59:03 Starts pulling back in

RD Wrote: 59:04 Pulled in completely

RD Wrote: 59:05 Headlights go out

Jennifer's vehicle in images captured on the 26th--perfectly situated in the parking spot

HOTG complex Google maps satellite image screen capture/points of interest marked with stars

Considering the capture above, and noticing the brick wall here, would this not be a spot as secluded as one could select in a high traffic, high crime area--perfect for a high noon ditching? (When people aren't watching so closely). And who would suspect that a cam on the front side of the pool house could film that location?

rd wrote:
I had always responded to the pulled out pulled back in carefully parked concern as not unexpected in an unfamiliar car. However, I had never been able to see anything concerning the actual parking. The "Lohr" version looks to me had some very good image work done it and kudos for that and your examination of it.

The Lohr video starts at 58:48 with what appears to me Jennifer's car already pulled in. I did a search to see what Jennifer Kesse surveillance videos were available and there are very few and very very uneven. If I recall correctly there was a link posted to a version put out by a crime show that didn't come up in my quick search.

Looking at the speeded up Lohr version referred to, starting at 58:48, I agree, the car is pulled out with wheels turned, and pulls back in appears to be same position.

58:48 Video starts with appears to be Jennifer's car pulled into parking space
58:54 Six seconds later, car starts backing out
58:56 Can now see headlights backing out
58:59 Seems to be fully backed out, tires are turned to right
59:03 Starts pulling back in
59:04 Pulled in completely
59:05 Headlights go out

So, pulls in, sits for 6 seconds, takes 5 seconds to back out, an extraordinary amount of time to back out of a parking space, sits for 4 seconds in the lane with wheels turned which is also a long time to sit doing that, and then pulls back in seemingly into same spot in same position and turns ignition off.

It is a ridiculously long time. He appears to be contemplating parking elsewhere, over in direction he came in from, and seemingly decides against it. I agree it is not straightening up the car in the parking spot, and not carefully parking at all as was conjectured by everyone.

We can speculate what he was thinking for 6 seconds to decide he didn't want to park there, starts to pull out, and over next 10 seconds reconsiders and pulls back in.

This should put an end to anyone saying eh was familiar with the place and planned what he was doing with her car. This is some serious indecision.

Good catch on that sequence, Nancy.
Okay, now I put your whole comment down here so my reply wont get lost amongst the images. I hope. LOL

I don't know, Rd. I appreciate your logic but the behavior is so strange it sets my thoughts ajangle.

He uses 16 seconds backing up and pulling back in; he uses a further 32 seconds "waiting" inside Jennifer's vehicle.

At high noon he is practically striding center pool.

Twenty-nine seconds later, (then on Cam 3) he stops beside the palm tree and risks a look back at where he parked!

How I wish we had the footage from Cam 2 at that time so we could see for ourselves what was happening near Jennifer's vehicle.

Any possibilities it could have been a signal to someone watching from a window? Maybe he stopped at the palm tree not only for a quick look back but also to wait a couple of seconds for the pre-arranged pick-up vehicle to pull into a spot beside the dumpster.

I presume you've heard the rumor that the HOTG complex is "sandwiched" between properties owned by the outfit Jennifer worked for. I have no idea if it is true, but I find it interesting.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
When I was doing a search just now on CAM2 video I came across thoughts I had on it.

I spent a very few hours last summer doing some work like this to gauge height next to car but I certainly didn't produce anything this clean. Still, here's what I concluded.

At 12:59:43 CAM2 time POI emerges from car. I'm going to lower my estimate of POI height based on height compared to car versus the palm tree. It looks more like me standing next to the car, I'm 5'7. I would lower POI height estimate to 5'7 to 5'8 from 5'9 to 5'11 now that I've seen POI standing next to car.

The whiteness of the clothing as seen in the video is disconcerting. Even though I know it's infrared doing it it's difficult to mentally picture in darker clothes. I did think of something that should be done. I have through the years asked for the make, model, and settings of the gate camera so that I could test what kind of clothes show up as what. Well clearly after eleven years no one wants to give out that info.

But something better just occurred to me. The police had to go through at least a day's worth of surveillance of both cameras to find the POI images. They would have seen several people walking by gate for example. They would have been able to see whether POI clothes were abnormally light compared to others, I mean most people wouldn't be wearing all white. And they would know whether POI looked like most other people or was one of very few to be in very light colored clothing.

I would certainly hope that the surveillance tapes that were reviewed to get these images weren't discarded. This could be done even now and have a very good determination if POI was wearing white clothes while others looked normal darker colors than all white.

I did some very rough resizing and contrast adjustments to make out the POI figure better. Standing next to the car the POI is a solid build, not thin, not heavy. There is dark shading around his middle. This is not well defined like a belt but just a general wider dark shading around the middle.

Head and dark above head are visible. He extends his right arm and the arm is all white just like rest of his clothes. To me it is clear he is wearing a long sleeved shirt. It looks like a band of darkness around his wrist area.

Next image that I stopped on was at 12:59:44. Here his back is much darker. It looks to me like he slung a backpack type device over his back from :43 to :44 (image seconds are not very accurate as we saw with gate POI images). I have noted that equipment on his back in image 2 of gate images and it looks like he did sling that over his back when he got out of the car.
Well, at least I can see that his arm is extended. (Notice how he seems to keep his back turned to any possible surveillance cameras).

It makes sense that he would sling "whatever" over his back once he left the vehicle because it would be hard to drive with something on your back.

I've seen other discussion on the "band of darkness around his wrist area."

Some people believe it's a watch. I'm undecided.

The "dark shading around his middle" gives me the impression that he has a jacket or sweater tied around his waist.

I have screen captures from the times you mention, but would love to see your enhanced versions. :)

With the marking of the 14th year of Jennifer's disappearance fast approaching, I wish Mr. Kesse would release a full unedited copy from each surveillance video.

My complete wish list would be:

1) the videos
2) the contents of Jennifer's hard drives
3) everything he has on the phone(s) pings and their final events
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would add to that the complete surveillance videos that these were extracted from, and the camera models and settings.

Also the ping data, the tower locations could be excluded if deemed too sensitive, and all the ping data they have from both phones, including phone models and ID.

Regarding clothing wrapped around middle, remember that clothing is light colored in the infrared, more of it does not make it dark.

Also in the Blowups we see a lot around the middle, and it's gear of some type.

Some good thoughts about his possible motives, Nancy.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
I would add to that the complete surveillance videos that these were extracted from, and the camera models and settings.

Also the ping data, the tower locations could be excluded if deemed too sensitive, and all the ping data they have from both phones, including phone models and ID.
I only wish they did regard it as "sensitive". To me, it appears they believe it is worthless garbage and we spend too much time on it. So, okay. Great. Send the worthless garbage right this way. I'm willing to waste even more of my time on it. But let's have everything they have, including the transceiver location within each cell tower that Jenn's phone would have logged into.

rd wrote:
Regarding clothing wrapped around middle, remember that clothing is light colored in the infrared, more of it does not make it dark.

Also in the Blowups we see a lot around the middle, and it's gear of some type.

Some good thoughts about his possible motives, Nancy.
In the blow-ups from Cam 3, it does appear that his shirt/t-shirt is a lighter shade than his pants. Point well taken, though.

rd wrote:
Head and dark above head are visible. He extends his right arm and the arm is all white just like rest of his clothes. To me it is clear he is wearing a long sleeved shirt. It looks like a band of darkness around his wrist area.

Next image that I stopped on was at 12:59:44. Here his back is much darker. It looks to me like he slung a backpack type device over his back from :43 to :44 (image seconds are not very accurate as we saw with gate POI images). I have noted that equipment on his back in image 2 of gate images and it looks like he did sling that over his back when he got out of the car.
Above comment is respectively snipped by me and added here to explain the following images. (All images screenshot from Cam 2 video).

So the head and dark above head are visible in this time frame? What about the feet--are they showing on your image?

Another thought that came to my mind about what he could be doing here was putting on his hat or helmet.

This one appears to show him with his arm down and a few steps closer to the very rear of Jenn's vehicle--so whether he slung a backpack over his shoulder or put something on his head, he didn't waste any time.
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rd



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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow! I didn't come close to getting something that good, Nancy. That has all the hallmarks of a backpack, about as good as one could ever hope for from those images.

Note also the comments through the years of the "rounded" back of the POI. I knew there was hardware hanging from his back, and have isolated a webbing and rings type image on the Blowup page from his back. I wasn't sure whether slung over his shoulder or what, now can see that it was back of his backpack.

I have contended he was dressed for bike riding, with bike helmet and cleated shoes / sweat socks, and pants with tie down ankles of a bike rider. I think this backpack (note the size in center of his back) adds to that contention.

That is great work from a very difficult source. Kudos Nancy.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
wow! I didn't come close to getting something that good, Nancy. That has all the hallmarks of a backpack, about as good as one could ever hope for from those images.

Note also the comments through the years of the "rounded" back of the POI. I knew there was hardware hanging from his back, and have isolated a webbing and rings type image on the Blowup page from his back. I wasn't sure whether slung over his shoulder or what, now can see that it was back of his backpack.

I have contended he was dressed for bike riding, with bike helmet and cleated shoes / sweat socks, and pants with tie down ankles of a bike rider. I think this backpack (note the size in center of his back) adds to that contention.

That is great work from a very difficult source. Kudos Nancy.
It's never a good thing to encourage me, RD. :)

Anyway, I thought you would like the larger images.

Below I did a side by side including the POI image at the 2nd gate post from Cam 2. (I believe it's your blow-up, shrunken a bit).

I also substituted my surveillance video screenshot at 11:59:44 PM with one, taken at the same time and enhanced, from Greta's special on Jennifer.

Especially by comparing the 12:00:00 PM image to the 12:00:27 PM image, I do recognize the shading in the same areas, although I find it low for a backpack. However, accepting your theory, I wonder if he set it on the passenger seat or on the floor just below? Assuming it wouldn't be a new backpack, I would think it would have been covered with foreign fibers, hairs, etc. But supposedly all they found was one tiny single fiber in the trunk? I don't know--it doesn't make sense.

Finally, with the second image, I attempted to place the POI in locations marked by the times and showing which cams would have been recording.

What I do feel confident about is that this was no teenager with a skate board tucked under his arm walking away from parking Jennifer's vehicle thinking he had just made a couple of fast, easy bucks.

The high-noon timing was not accidental.



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