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Nancy
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460
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 Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| rd wrote: | | Jennifer deserves at least the truth as a legacy. |
I deeply believe this; and even more so because I'm convinced the truth is the only hope Jennifer has of being located.
Think about missing female cases you've encountered; ask yourself what they all have in common.
I'll list a few examples to help explain my point:
1) a young woman had an affair with a married man--she "vanished"
2) a young woman in a bad marriage--she "vanished"
3) a young woman jogging alone--she "vanished"
4) a teenager on a school trip; left a bar with a local--she "vanished"
5) a teenager on March break with friends she hardly knew and without her mother's permission--she "vanished"
The commonality that I see is vulnerability. What emerges and is unique to each case is the circumstances surrounding the vulnerability which leads to an avenue for law enforcement to pursue.
In Jennifer's case, we don't see vulnerability. Therefore, we don't see the avenue of pursuit. But it has to be there.
The only thing we know for sure is that Jennifer did not vanish any more than any of the other young women vanished.
It's become pretty clear what's behind the 5'3" Chino (alias alert) AM theory. Nothing about truth seems to be contained therein. At least to me.
Anyway, I'm going to add a few things pertinent to some of the points you made in your post above.
| rd wrote: | Yes, Nancy, this is what I recall and have commented on from the beginning. Rob clearly states that Jennifer at least texted him when she woke up, before she went to work. He was surprised to wake up and not see a text from her.
This should be Exhibit A that Jennifer was not around Tuesday morning getting ready for work as I have pointed out from the beginning, in the first few pages of the Jennifer Kesse Missing thread.
And Exhibit A is totally ignored because it disproves the narrative. |
Yeah. The phone records appear to be pesky, too.
MARCH 2, 2020
by Drew Kesse, Organizer
Clearing up Confusion, Final Entry
Q. Assuming you have her cell and landline records, are there any incoming or outbound calls that are out of the ordinary, numbers not recognized that appear multiple times that started just before the disappearance?
A. We are still working on phone records received, they are extensive to review and difficult to work with at times. We won’t share that information in this forum.
Quote:
GRACE: OK. So she was on her phone that night, not on her cell phone that morning. How about incoming and outgoing calls at home, from her home phone?
RING: That`s -- you know, we`ve reviewed those, and we`re just kind of keeping that to ourselves as to what that information actually is.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/17/ng.01.html
| rd wrote: | | In addition we have found that the situation of being home all evening and all night and up in morning to get ready for work would normally leave some trash in a trash can in the home. And there was no trash. |
Two points here:
1) confirmation that she usually picked her work clothes out the night before:
FEBRUARY 25, 2020
by Drew Kesse, Organizer
Clearing up Confusion, Part 12
Q. Did Jenn typically shower and pick out clothes the night before or the morning of?
A. It is our belief and experience with Jennfer that she was very much a morning shower person. We really never knew her to shower at night at all. Also in our experience with Jennifer we saw her most times pick out a couple or few possible outfits the night before each work day. It was normal for us to see her clothes not worn still out in her room somewhere.
2)No trash, except for "junk" mail she had picked-up with her mail on the 23rd. But she was hungry; so what did she eat or why didn't she eat?
Quote: [DREW] KESSE: She was in a great mood, number one. She had just gone away for the weekend to St. Croix with her boyfriend. And she was telling me exactly how much fun they had and what they did, and what was I cooking for dinner that night, and she didn`t know exactly what she was going to have for dinner. It was short, but we talk a couple times a day. And that`s basically what we spoke about.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0601/26/ng.01.html
MARCH 2, 2020
by Drew Kesse, Organizer
Clearing up Confusion, Final Entry
Q. Do you have any idea what Jenn ate for dinner on the night of Monday the 23rd?
A. No. It’s our understanding that she drove straight to work from Rob’s after a vacation, had a full day at work, came home, and made calls to friends and family. I would imagine she would have nothing in the fridge, having been on vacation and not going to the grocery store that day. It’s also noted that her kitchen in the condo was sparkling clean.
Q. Is it possible she went out late on the 23rd for a quick bite? Is there any video or bank records to support this?
A. We don't believe she went out. Also there is no video or bank transactions to support she was out.
Transcript beginning at 25:24 minutes:
Jennifer disappeared on January 24, one month after Christmas and her holiday decorations were still all over her condo.
Joyce Kesse: I've got to tell you, it was absolutely crushing when we got there and I didn't take the stuff off the table right away. It was crushing to take it off and to put away her Christmas decorations.
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/house-of-broken-dreams-s2-e3/id1539220513?i=1000498214971
Quote: [Drew Kesse] The rest of the condo was just perfect. It honestly looked like a maid came through right down to a full setting -- four piece setting table setting in -- on her dining room table.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1103/17/ng.03.html
So what's a thread without a few pics, right? :)
The dimensions given for the dining room area are about 9' X 10'. If the location of where Jennifer dropped her duffle luggage bag is correct in the recreation image--which is questionable--it was right in front of the dresser Jennifer restored, almost directly across from the dining room table.
A table set for a month would have dust on it. It just would. Not to mention Logan's going away bash. I want to believe them. I do.
The vulnerability, maybe? I dunno. |
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rd
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9275
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Some insightful points made here. Among other things, they are withholding more than ping records, they appear to be hiding something about the phone records.
Of course, it's their judgement that it's nobody's business, but they also make unbelievable contentions about Jennifer and expect everyone to believe them while withholding information that for some reason they don't want anyone to know.
It's like with the Orlando Police and the POI. Don't worry about the details, just tell us if you've seen this person. With the Kesse's it's, don't worry about the details, just tell us where Jennifer is.
They're all in for drop a dime deathbed confession I guess. Good luck with that. It worked to finally find out what happened to Tara Grinstead, but the family wasn't hiding any information that might have shed light sooner.
Concerning Jennifer's luggage she brought in, I thought from reading that it was left by the front door. Am I misunderstanding that? |
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Nancy
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rd wrote: | Some insightful points made here. Among other things, they are withholding more than ping records, they appear to be hiding something about the phone records.
Of course, it's their judgement that it's nobody's business, but they also make unbelievable contentions about Jennifer and expect everyone to believe them while withholding information that for some reason they don't want anyone to know. |
Every time I read the following I wonder what the basis for the bolded statement below could be. They have confirmed the call ending at 9:57 pm originated from Jennifer's cell phone. As far as I know, phone records themselves do not show location. We are told they believe the ping study was bunk, false, junk science, garbage--not to be looked at or considered. So on what do they base their belief that she was in bed talking to Rob? Like the droplets of water behind shampoo bottles that must indicate a morning shower; like the bed with the comforter pulled up but showing signs of someone lying on top of it must indicate she slept in her bed--it's all insufficient. It's not enough to even be called evidence.
But notice the time of 9:57 pm seems a little bit suspicious. The words "presumably at" are used. The only thing confirmable is presumable. Really?
FEBRUARY 25, 2020
by Drew Kesse, Organizer
Clearing up Confusion, Part 12
Q. Did Jenn go anywhere or meet with anyone after work on Monday, January 23rd?
A. To our knowledge, no. She went home after work on 1/23/06 and spoke with many people that evening including myself, Logan, her mom, her friend Lauren, Rob. Then Jennifer was in bed presumably at 9:57pm talking with Rob, her boyfriend at the time, saying good night, as phone records show.
| rd wrote: | It's like with the Orlando Police and the POI. Don't worry about the details, just tell us if you've seen this person. With the Kesse's it's, don't worry about the details, just tell us where Jennifer is.
They're all in for drop a dime deathbed confession I guess. Good luck with that. It worked to finally find out what happened to Tara Grinstead, but the family wasn't hiding any information that might have shed light sooner. |
I found the podcast that led to the unraveling of Tara's case distasteful at times. I wouldn't want to see the personal details of Jennifer's life dissected like that. She doesn't deserve it, but neither did Tara.
Still, it's hard to argue with the results.
| rd wrote: | | Concerning Jennifer's luggage she brought in, I thought from reading that it was left by the front door. Am I misunderstanding that? |
BBM I don't think you're misunderstanding. It's clearly stated, although it may be a matter of perspective.
From the floor plan, as you enter the foyer via the front door of Jennifer's condo, it seems you would be surrounded by doors. It is likely that she would have carried her duffle to the front of the dresser so as not to block passageways.
All the images we have are from approved "reenactments" or camera crews simply panning the various rooms of the condo. All taken within weeks or even months after Jennifer's disappearance.
Nothing is authentic; truly as it was.
What about the gifts of rum--where were those bottles? How close to the duffle?
Her condo was spaciously designed, though.
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rd
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9275
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I see what you're saying about luggage by front door. I also have a typical one bedroom apartment and similar foyer with closet on one side and utilty room on other.
I would be able to place luggage in the foyer beyond reach of door opening, basically at the entrance to dining room (or living room in my case). But only temporarily. I had impression of open space next to door where luggage was set, not a narrow foyer.
So if luggage was actually placed in dining room near foyer it was described as left by front door? Also the closet floor possibly could have temporarily stored the luggage. No mention of that until I saw your floor plan image.
What about in area between closet and water heater enclosure? That looks open and where one could place luggage when coming in. |
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Nancy
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| rd wrote: | I see what you're saying about luggage by front door. I also have a typical one bedroom apartment and similar foyer with closet on one side and utilty room on other.
I would be able to place luggage in the foyer beyond reach of door opening, basically at the entrance to dining room (or living room in my case). But only temporarily. I had impression of open space next to door where luggage was set, not a narrow foyer.
So if luggage was actually placed in dining room near foyer it was described as left by front door? Also the closet floor possibly could have temporarily stored the luggage. No mention of that until I saw your floor plan image. |
Well, I got that impression. I'm open to discussion, though. LOL
I thought about how the closet floor may have been a good place to get the luggage quickly out of sight.
I would guess that by leaving it in front of the dresser Jenn intended to unpack it asap. Finding it in the closet would suggest to me that she had nothing in it requiring urgent attention and would get to it when time permitted.
You know, now that I think about it, I've heard people have hairdryers and curling irons for travel purposes only as the plugin's requirements can vary.
A possibility could arise indicating the hairdryer and curling iron found in Jenn's bathroom (but never shown) never traveled with her at all. In that case, their location would offer no clues to her getting ready for work in the morning or at any other time.
| rd wrote: | | What about in area between closet and water heater enclosure? That looks open and where one could place luggage when coming in. |
I think there is a bathroom door there? For example, she might travel from that bathroom door to the utility room, where the damp towel was found. It seems to be a thoroughfare, of sorts. |
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rd
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9275
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, I see, It is a doorway to bathroom.
What I missed is the transition from "left bags by front door" in news to where you picture it being placed. Is the description still left by front door but reenactments pictured in dining room? |
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Nancy
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| rd wrote: | Oh, I see, It is a doorway to bathroom.
What I missed is the transition from "left bags by front door" in news to where you picture it being placed. Is the description still left by front door but reenactments pictured in dining room? |
I think so. I'll post the quote:
Quote: Mr. Kesse: Her -- her -- right inside the front door was her luggage that she used on vacation. She just came in and dropped it and went to bed.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1103/17/ng.03.html
Sorry, I thought you had it. |
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rd
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9275
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, that's the quote I remembered and also was described same way in news. I won't quibble, I guess bringing in a few more feet into dining room can be considered "right inside the front door", as in a few feet inside from the front door.
Thanks for clarification, Nancy. |
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rd
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9275
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Drew posted an update on GoFundMe. (I've made a couple of donations through the years.) A nice update and ask for help funding their investigation. I'll excerpt a factoid here:
Nothing was ever found of hers, no credit cards, no cell phone, no clothes, keys, pocket book, Ipod, nothing.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/kasmv-help-us-find-jennifer-kesse |
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Nancy
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| rd wrote: | Drew posted an update on GoFundMe. (I've made a couple of donations through the years.) A nice update and ask for help funding their investigation. I'll excerpt a factoid here:
Nothing was ever found of hers, no credit cards, no cell phone, no clothes, keys, pocket book, Ipod, nothing.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/kasmv-help-us-find-jennifer-kesse |
But why on Jennifer's FBI ViCAP Missing Person page does it list specifically her Florida driver's license as missing but makes no mention of credit cards? If they "assume" her credit cards were inside her wallet which was inside a "purse" (no description available because the purse originally listed as missing was found inside her luggage and was therefore never missing); why did they not "assume" her driver's license was there, also?
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/vicap/missing-persons/kesse_orlando_fl.pdf/view
I suspect the truth lies somewhere among the inaccuracies. But where?
Where is Jennifer? What happened to her? Missing 15 years this Sunday. 15 years.
I pray for her. |
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Markybug
Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 92
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Reading your posts from the start of the year has me thinking that what seems to be fact re the phones and the ex- boyfriend , the co-worker etc might not actually be !
Could one of them be involved? Did she maybe go out somewhere at night , or someone come over ?? Hard to see how this case can be solved. Tho on jenns gofundme page drew states “ We are filling in the puzzle and we have great hope of truly solving Jennifer’s abduction this year“ , this seems strangely confident no ? |
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Nancy
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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We have very few actual facts about this case. If anything slips out and we start putting the pieces together, the pieces get retracted, or changed, or whatever.
What is being said now is what needs to be said to keep the donations flowing.
There is no real authority to "solve" this case or make any arrests. Only law enforcement can do that.
If Jennifer is alive, will her location be discovered; or, regrettably, will remains be found?
That's all that is being done, seeking Jennifer with no questions asked. If anyone comes forward with a location it's promised that everything possible will be done to keep their identity secret.
I doubt the perpetrators of this crime will fall for that.
There is always the possibility of a miracle, and if any soul ever deserved a miracle of that nature it's Jennifer.
But she deserves justice, too. |
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Nancy
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I've been reviewing a few things on Jennifer's case and I came across the following quotes. I thought they helped explain my thinking in the comment above.
Sorry, I can't link these anymore. However, if you go to the fundraiser page and click on "see older updates", you should get a pop-up box with all the updates. Scroll down until you see "Clearing up Confusion".
FEBRUARY 13, 2020
by Drew Kesse, Organizer
Clearing up Confusion, Part 6
Q. Can you talk about what type of investigations have taken place with regards to the people who lived at Jenn’s condo complex?
A. Just too many to sit here and ramble them off. We have had many people come forward who lived there before during and after Jennifer did. Some we have gotten to review via case files. I want, at this point, to make something very clear. We will never be able to publicly name any Person/People Of Interest, none for many reasons. We are not Law Enforcement , we do not enjoy the same laws and rules they get to play by.
FEBRUARY 14, 2020
by Drew Kesse, Organizer
Clearing up Confusion, Part 7
Q. Will you ever release Jennifer’s records from law enforcement to the public?
A. NO, but we will release factual items we feel will help the case if, by law, doing so will not hurt us. |
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Nancy
Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Nancy wrote: | | Markybug wrote: | | Regarding Chino , am i correct that he is one of the individuals who claimed jenn told him to lock up her apartment as she couldn’t wait ? Which her father says is a complete lie? |
Yes, you are correct in believing Chino is one of the two individuals who claimed Jenn told them to lock-up her condo. "Ben" is the other one. |
Both comments respectfully snipped by me.
Apologies for quoting myself.
However, I finally have this sourced and so wanted to add it.
It's also important to note that Detective Wright is explaining that he talked to a source (former housekeeper at Mosaic) who identified Chino when shown the stills of the POI at the gate posts per CAM3.
Ben and Chino are not the two men Logan saw in a van when he arrived at Mosaic on the 24th.
Source:
Oxygen Up and Vanished
S1 E5 New Hope in Orlando
March 14, 2020
@ 25:30 Minutes:
Transcribed by me:
Detective Joel Wright, OPD, currently retired: I found Ben first. So Ben said yeah Chino and I worked in her condo that week before she went on her trip. |
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Markybug
Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 92
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Nancy wrote: | | Nancy wrote: | | Markybug wrote: | | Regarding Chino , am i correct that he is one of the individuals who claimed jenn told him to lock up her apartment as she couldn’t wait ? Which her father says is a complete lie? |
Yes, you are correct in believing Chino is one of the two individuals who claimed Jenn told them to lock-up her condo. "Ben" is the other one. |
Both comments respectfully snipped by me.
Apologies for quoting myself.
However, I finally have this sourced and so wanted to add it.
It's also important to note that Detective Wright is explaining that he talked to a source (former housekeeper at Mosaic) who identified Chino when shown the stills of the POI at the gate posts per CAM3.
Ben and Chino are not the two men Logan saw in a van when he arrived at Mosaic on the 24th.
Source:
Oxygen Up and Vanished
S1 E5 New Hope in Orlando
March 14, 2020
@ 25:30 Minutes:
Transcribed by me:
Detective Joel Wright, OPD, currently retired: I found Ben first. So Ben said yeah Chino and I worked in her condo that week before she went on her trip. |
Interesting that it was the week before she went away on holiday , then returned and basically vanished ?
Something is not right about those two and that they did/didn’t work alone in her apartment (presumably they were allegedly alone on occasion that last week?) |
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