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Jennifer Kesse Disappearance Discussion
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myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 81
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has there ever been a Google Earth map done showing the the towers the pings( as per RD's ping study) would have bounced off?
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 282

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Nancy- That’s a great but sad quote from Mr Kesse. I truly hope he gets the answers to his questions someday.
I do, too. But I hope it happens for Jennifer's sake. She had a fear of being taken and no-one being able to find her. Her soul is trapped in exactly that scenario.

Elk573 wrote:
There is an ‘Unconcluded Discussion Group’ on Facebook and they keep a running list of facts and some things that have been debunked from the case. Here are somethings that might be useful in our discussion:

*Construction workers were allowed to live in empty units at Mosaic during an apartment-to-condominium conversion. (Many workers were undocumented). Jennifer had complained to her family and friends about some of the workers making catcalls. The condominium across from Jennifer was unlocked and undergoing construction. Logan and his friend entered the condo in search of Jennifer. There was no carpet. Later, law enforcement checked the unit as well—although no forensic tests were performed. They searched many empty units in Jennifer’s building, but some were privately-owned and not searched.(Jennifer had not filed a complaint about the workers)

*Regarding Oak Ridge Baptist church, where a witness saw a car (that looked like Jenn’s) and a man with a ponytail flashing headlights late at night, there are no immediate plans to search the property. The podcast has tried to contact the owners, but it’s proved difficult. The church appears inactive at this time. The phone numbers are disconnected. One of the 2006 incorporators (added since the 2005 annual filing) lived at HOTG where Jennifer’s car was found. One of the ministers has a criminal record.

Because Mosaic was undergoing an apartment to condo conversion, Jennifer had a punch-out list before her condo was ‘perfect’ and met the contract. Jennifer came home during lunch and talked on the phone while the painters did their thing. One day, Jennifer was on the phone with her father while a specific painter was in her condo. Couple years later, the painter got arrested. He lied and said Jennifer left him alone in her condo and ‘to lock up when done’, which Jennifer’s father knows to be untrue. The painter took a lie detector test and passed.

Question about painter/punch list man who was arrested later and passed a lie detector about Jennifer. He’s Hispanic, but there’s little information about his physical description.
Yes, I'm aware of this. I don't like to see her notes here because we may be sharing something we have no right to share. I'm not the boss, but I'd remove them. :)

And we don't need them.

Each episode of the podcast contains all the information given in the notes only with more detail. Granted the episodes can drag on and are repetitious to listen to, but they are not part of anything private.

RD had an excellent idea earlier, and I hope we take that path.

(I've even seen pure rumor in her "debunked" notes; so, I'd recommend caution if we are allowed to use them for reference here).

I understand why you quoted those particular parts, because they do help make the connection you're seeking.

Here is a question: Can you remember hearing an episode where Mr. Kesse comes right out and says it was the painter who was doing the touch up painting in Jenn's condo in 2006 who was later imprisoned for a statutory rape which had occurred in 2008? I could swear that I heard that in an episode, but I spent hours checking for it and I can't find it again.

Now, I'm certain that in a city the size of Orlando there was more than one man imprisoned for a rape which occurred in 2008, but the connection to Morales-Marin is interesting and so his description.

There is that one article that lists him as an unemployed laborer, but maybe that's why the touch-up "painting" work wasn't going so good.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9243
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
So... As I already mentioned, I heard one of the Kesse’s mention a ‘Juan M’ as possibly one of the workers that worked in Jennifer’s condo. Also, in interviews Mr. Kesse has had, he mentioned that either one or two of the workers that worked in her condo were later arrested at some point for something else, but they were questioned on Jennifer’s disappearance and passed a polygraph. This had me curious so I decided to do a search on ‘Jennifer Kesse, Juan M.’

There is a LOT of info out there on a Juan M and another person who were arrested back in 2009 for a sexual assault. They were then found guilty of their crime and are now serving a life sentence. Both of these men are illegal immigrants and were contractors/painters. There has been a lot written about these 2 on both the WS site and the Jennifer Kesse forum.

The crime these men were found guilty of is heinous... They abducted a 11 year old girl at knifepoint, brough her to a abandoned house and raped her. They were also linked to another possible rape that happened in 2008 where they also abducted a pregnant woman and raped her.

In my research I looked for any possible link to them working at the Mosaic, but wasn’t able to find anything. But if you look at my previous post and how workers are somehow rounded up for the day, it’s possible that they could have worked at the Mosaic and there is no record of it.

I did see that one of them were also arrested in 2007 for domestic abuse on their spouse. I tried to find anything on their whereabout in 2006, but couldn’t find anything.

I only found 1 post on this forum about these 2 and it was written by rd back in Feb 2009! No one else seemed to chime in on this though.

Here is rd’s post (rd, hope this is ok!):

———————————————————————————————————
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3311615&posted=1#post3311615

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-rape-girl-021209,0,5794924.story?page=2

Some info about two violent sex assaulters in the area Jennifer lived from cloudajo's post on websleuths. An 11 year old girl abducted on her way to school and raped by two illegal aliens, just the latest of a string of heineous sexual assaults by them.

I hope they can determine the whereabouts of these two worthless scumbags in January 2006. Hernandez-Monzalvo was out terrorizing people women as early as summer 2005.

And even if neither one of them did construction work at the Mosaic, they live in the area and could easily pass as one of the workers, etc.

Besides the obvious fact of what I think the suspect was wearing, it would be very unusual to make a victim disappear and then go on this string of rapes and assaults and walking away from them, or letting them off somewhere, etc.

Obviously anything can happen, Jennifer could possibly have put up a fight where the assaulter murdered her, but still would be very unusual to have that much of a difference.

Notice that the police didn't bother to look for illegal immigration until a child rape crime. They were brought in over and over and nobody cares we have these criminals running around terrorizing decent people. Then all of a sudden gee, these are illegals, we're going to re-open a case where they refused to even show up for court, and put a "hold" on them.

Like you couldn't have done that the first half dozen times you had them in custody?

Of course they could have. Like I always say though, somebody has to die first before anybody cares.

These men shouldn't be allowed to roam free even in a prison. Of course that's true for all the violent felons.

A cage in the desert is all we should spend on them. A little girl has to suffer the horror of what they did the rest of her life, and a pregnant mom, and on and on.

Stupid is the least of what they are.

rd

———————————————————————


Ok... I’ll next write about how I may have made a connection to one of the tipsters in the podcast.


yes, one of my more impassioned posts. I wrote similar in chapter Woman Missing in Murder on a Horse Trail.

I have no idea however what this has to do with a punch list and Juan M.

The concept of a "punch list" is strange anyway. If you have 10 problems that you need corrected, you call the office and tell them you have 10 things that need fixed. Is this some sort of oh, they're showing up to fix problem #4 I reported? In other words, a punch list is a list of things you called in?

Why does everything have to be so convoluted in Jennifer's case? And not even partial answers, not even a glimmer that anything is even being answered.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9243
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
rd wrote:
I don't mean to be so non-helpful to everyone's questions, but I haven't listened to any podcasts. Basically I read posts of people pointing out stuff in them.

Obviously, the podcasts can't be of Jennifer herself so I take it that is shorthand for you think you recall Jennifer's parents saying Jennifer mentioned a name to them of one of the workers.

I'm intrigued by the concept of deciphering speech as a name and initial. Not to mention how unusual it is for a resident to be aware of and know the name of a worker and the worker identifying himself to her in such a way. How does one do that? Hi, I'm Juan M, your friendly punch list stalker, in Spanish?

Speaking of which, I see you identifed what a punch list is, but where does this terminology come from? Is that from Kesse in the podcast? That is really strange way to describe maintenance.
RD, I had a chuckle when I read the BBM because I had never heard of a "punch list" before this case.

Yep, as Elk confirms, Mr. Kesse and the podcast people use the terminology regularly.

I even Googled it at one point. Here is Google's definition, from Wikipedia:

Quote: A punch list is a document prepared near the end of a construction project listing work not conforming to contract specifications that the contractor must complete prior to final payment. The work may include incomplete or incorrect installations or incidental damage to existing finishes, material, and structures.


Thanks for that definition, Nancy. I see it is a technically accurate term for a work docket at that phase of construction. So the work list would be created by inspection, not by resident calling in problems.

I would imagine it was also part of the mortgage paperwork as that would be involved in inspection signoffs. There would also therefore be a signoff on the final work docket (punch list) as work completed, possibly another inspection required. Was work items still open when she disappeared?
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
rd wrote:
Does anyone know how many podcasts / videos / etc. there are on Jennifer Kesse case? Back in the day we put together a bibliography of everything in Chandra Levy case. Our longtime admin jane did that work.

Nancy has provided some very helpful transcript info. I'm wondering if we can help her out and have the podcast transcripts posted here. If I want to know whather something was said in Chandra case I do a search here and it's posted somewhere.

I did a search on Youtube closed captioning transcript and looks like there are some options for creating a transcript from auto-generated closed captioning. It would have to be edited as to who was speaking but getting the transcript generated is the bulk of it. Are any of these podcasts on Youtube? Can anyone chip in and help generate the closed captioning transcripts? Posting would be one transcript to a thread.

The first search result I looked at was stackoverflow, and it was pretty complete with options. I'm just throwing this out there in case someone else can use the info.
I'll have to check, but I believe they are all on YouTube. I don't think the YouTube videos have the podcast "blessing" but I'm quite sure they contain the whole episodes.

In total, counting the sidebar episodes, there about 34 episodes.

I'd be willing to volunteer some time towards it.

I haven't got a clue about doing it, though. Or if my computer would even allow it, but I'd try.


yeah, thanks, your time and computer would be better suited to editing the text, inserting Drew: and Narrator: etc. at points where the voice changes.

I'll see if anyone else can give it a try. I can take a look at those options when I get a chance otherwise.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
rd wrote:
Elk, that's a lot of research. When did you take up researching this? What got you interested in Jennifer Kesse's case?



Hi rd-

To be honest, I haven’t been researching the Jennifer Kesse case for very long. Especially when I look back and see how long some of you have been posting, commenting and conducting your research which is incredible! I first came across the Kesse case maybe 6 or 7 years ago when I saw it on dateline or one of those shows. Then this summer I stumbled upon the podcast, ‘Unconcluded’ and that’s really when my research started. I really recommend the podcast, I find the interviews with Mr. and Mrs. Kesse particularly interesting and it’s great that they took part in it.

What interests me about the case? How perplexing it is with so many questions and so few answers. I also feel really bad for the Kesse family and my heart breaks for them when I see or hear their interviews. I can’t imagine going 12.5 + years and not knowing day after day where your loved one is. So sad.

So with the podcast, when something interested me or I wanted to know more on something that was said, I would search and see what else came up on it. When I saw on the map the street where those 2 assailants were arrested from, it also showed how close they were to that church the tipster spoke about.


Thank you for that background. We appreciate getting to know you and your thoughts and research. Hopefully we can give you feedback that helps.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Nancy- Please see my answers to your questions inline.
Sorry, I missed this earlier.


Elk573 wrote:
I checked the guest book but unfortunately couldn’t find anything on this! I was replaying parts of the podcast again today hoping to find where/if that was said, but I’m still looking.
I'll really be surprised if that turns up in a podcast. Admittedly, I have run into trouble finding the podcast where I heard something, but I can usually identify something as coming from there.

I spent a little time on the Guest Book looking for it, but didn't see anything. So far. If we could come up with the Kesse quote of the mention of the name plus the direct quote from the podcast connecting the construction worker/painter to the 2008 rape, things would be a lot more interesting.

They may not be the "ones" who actually harmed Jennifer; but I think we would at least be looking at the two people the reporter refers to who "know something".


Elk573 wrote:
Actually to my understanding, the worker who took the poly passed and therefore was not lying. That’s the sense I got from it anyways.
I agree with Mystery. People who are lying sometimes pass a polygraph. But I'm just beginning to hear that "two" of them passed a polygraph. That two of them passed makes the results more credible for me.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
rd wrote:
Nancy wrote:
Elk573 wrote:
Hi rd-

Regarding the ‘punch list,’ I’ve heard Mr. Kesse mention this in some of the interviews he’s done. But I also found this from the WS site posted back in June 2007!

‘She had a "punch list" is what I've heard it referred to, and she chose to be home when the work was being done on her condo per the interviews. She would always be on the phone with someone- mom, dad, etc. while any of the workers were in her condo. There were a lot of empty units at Mosaic as not a lot of the apartments had sold.’

And yes... It was either Mr. or Mrs. Kesse I heard in an interview that referred to one of the workers as ‘Juan M.’ I know I heard it somewhere b/c it prompted me to do searches on that name that now has me curious. This is something you even posted about back in 2009 rd! Let me pull my research on it and I’ll start a new post. Who knows, this could be nothing, but in researching Juan M, I maybe found something that connects to a tip in the podcast.
BBM - Please understand that you are not alone in reading and/or hearing something and not being able to link it. I've had more than my share of problems with that in this case, in particular.

However, it's really important because without one of the Kesses mentioning the name there is nothing other than the "location" connecting this individual to Jennifer's case.


yes, agreed, this is really important. Links should be provided if there is a working link for multiple reasons, but even if no working link, where specifically information came from must be provided. If not we are only promulgating rumors. Which we don't do.



May be best to remove that part? I’m totally fine with removing that paragraph. I think that the location of where the assailants were arrested is still important though when you consider what the tipster spoke about and what she said she witnessed behind the church.


No, no need to remove anything, just need to include what source anything is from (website, news, podcast, like a specific podcast, ideally with timestamp).

And the "I think I recall Drew mentioning...' I'm trying to address. We should have transcripts for all the podcasts here, as well as any other sources anyone has. We have an area for that, I will give you access to it, look for Jennifer Kesse Private Discussion forum. I already granted you access to the Chandra Levy forums which is similar archival.

thanks
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
yeah, thanks, your time and computer would be better suited to editing the text, inserting Drew: and Narrator: etc. at points where the voice changes.

I'll see if anyone else can give it a try. I can take a look at those options when I get a chance otherwise.
Okay. I was afraid of that.

Just let me know what you think I'm suited for. :>
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rd



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, will do, Nancy. Definitely don't want to mess with latest browser addin for example that might be needed to this.

We do need a list posted here, as much detail ideally with Youtube links for example as possible on all known videos on Jennifer Kesse. Wold be much appreciated.

Elk, Nancy gave more relevant guidance on removal, etc. What I was saying is just general in nature. Thanks.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

myserty64 wrote:
Has there ever been a Google Earth map done showing the the towers the pings( as per RD's ping study) would have bounced off?

Nancy posted a nice image with those towers. Hopefully she can find it and re-post it.
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Nancy



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

myserty64 wrote:
Has there ever been a Google Earth map done showing the the towers the pings( as per RD's ping study) would have bounced off?
This might be close to what you are looking for. (My apologies if not).

I'll put the actual link underneath it, in case that's more helpful. I find there is still hardly any towers around her condo. No wonder cell reception was bad. I bet it still is today. That's strange, all by itself.



http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=orlando&state_abr=fl
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Nancy



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
ok, will do, Nancy. Definitely don't want to mess with latest browser addin for example that might be needed to this.

We do need a list posted here, as much detail ideally with Youtube links for example as possible on all known videos on Jennifer Kesse. Wold be much appreciated.

Elk, Nancy gave more relevant guidance on removal, etc. What I was saying is just general in nature. Thanks.
Okay. See first link below. It appears fairly complete; I believe all episodes are there except the last four. (Maybe they just have not gotten around to uploading them yet)?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNHBL_RagTk7LyFTBr_yqMw/videos


Edited to add: here is the link to their own page for comparison.
https://audioboom.com/channel/unconcluded
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
Thanks for that definition, Nancy. I see it is a technically accurate term for a work docket at that phase of construction. So the work list would be created by inspection, not by resident calling in problems.

I would imagine it was also part of the mortgage paperwork as that would be involved in inspection signoffs. There would also therefore be a signoff on the final work docket (punch list) as work completed, possibly another inspection required. Was work items still open when she disappeared?
I've never seen anything to really confirm if all work was ever completed. I get the feeling it wasn't; that all the trouble with the painter(s) was happening very close to the time of her disappearance.

I don't know though. She had lived in her condo almost two months to the day of her disappearance. There would be pressure somewhere on someone to get the work completed so the contract would close, I'd bet.

Here is a very brief quote from Mr. Kesse where he actually mentions the contract involved, but he doesn't give an excess of detail:

@ about 31:14
Mr. Kesse: Yeah, let me tell you that story. It was an apartment conversion to condo during the boom. So, Jennifer had a punch-out list. She had a couple of things she needed fixed before her condo was exactly perfect as they promised in a contract.

We were down to painting moulding and Jennifer would come home at lunch, and she would stand in the doorway and be on the phone with someone while workers worked for a half hour, even, at a time. Because she would not let them in without her, period; and being safety conscious she was always on the phone.

https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-going-forward
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myserty64



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great map Nancy. Thanks so much for that.

As we say down-under there wasn't a tower within 'cooee' of where we think her phone was supposed to be.
Actually does anyone know just where her phone was actually travelling?

If anyone knows it will be RD.
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