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Jennifer Kesse Disappearance Discussion
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To mark the 13th year of Jennifer's disappearance, I'll add the following link and her photo:

Quote: "Jennifer, today we miss you more than ever and we will miss you even more tomorrow. Time may go by, but you are always with us in heart, mind and soul every second of the day,” Kesse’s family wrote in a Facebook post.
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/13-years-later-jennifer-kesse-s-family-says-they-ll-leave-no-stone-unturned-/908763710

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Markybug



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
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Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject: Jennifer Reply with quote

I hope this is the year that something helps the case.
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Markybug



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Theories Reply with quote

Does anyone have any new thoughts or theories ?


Mark.
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Markybug



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Workmen Reply with quote

The painters/painters are responsible theory.

One of them was arrested years later in a sexual assault case and questioned re kesse. He claimed jenn told him to lock up her flat after he had finished painting in it (snagging works) this was a clear lie as she always stood at the open door of her flat , whilst on the phone to her dad (usually him) for safety...this to me is a red flag? He passed a lie detector tho.

It’s possible they thought her high handed or looked down on them , and thought to teach her a lesson? Not necessarily a rape and murder , but she fought back so strongly?

I believe this happened as she locked her front door , the pulled her into the vacant flat across from hers (the only one found unlocked by police, also no carpet inside) and the crime happened.

The car was moved as the workers became aware that the kesses had asked managers to check her flat etc , so at that same time it appears at the other building, far enough to hide it , close enough for a worker to quickly return to work..

The colleague options is still possible but without some facts on Campos , ie was he late the morning of the abduction, and did he scrap his 5 yr old car v soon after ?

The ex sounds plausible, most victims know the killer , was nearby and drinking , wanted to get back together etc , but it wasn’t him moving jenns car..
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NapQueen



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

13 years too long.

One thought I had the other day was about how car. Rob was taken to the car at HOTG because they wanted to open the truck with him present and gauge his reaction. I don't know where or when he said this (probably in the TV interview with Nancy Grace), but at some point he stated that her the seat of her car was moved back past where she would normally keep it when she drove. That's a pretty detailed observation and I wonder if it has any merit. If it does, wouldn't that mean the driver was likely taller than Jennifer? I believe Jennifer was 5'8. Of course, it could also be the case that the seat was moved back while the driver was wiping it down. But just thought I'd share for the sake of discussion purposes.

It also seems odd that they never attempted more formal scientific estimates of the height of the POI using test walks across the view of the same camera in the same place and/or geometry to calculate it. The FBI's estimate was so broad that it didn't really appear very helpful.
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Markybug



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 65
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:40 am    Post subject: Jenn Reply with quote

Moving the seat back to disguise your height is a whole new level of criminal knowledge?

Tho some younger people drive that “laid back” style?
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9255
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NapQueen wrote:
13 years too long.

One thought I had the other day was about how car. Rob was taken to the car at HOTG because they wanted to open the truck with him present and gauge his reaction. I don't know where or when he said this (probably in the TV interview with Nancy Grace), but at some point he stated that her the seat of her car was moved back past where she would normally keep it when she drove. That's a pretty detailed observation and I wonder if it has any merit. If it does, wouldn't that mean the driver was likely taller than Jennifer? I believe Jennifer was 5'8. Of course, it could also be the case that the seat was moved back while the driver was wiping it down. But just thought I'd share for the sake of discussion purposes.

It also seems odd that they never attempted more formal scientific estimates of the height of the POI using test walks across the view of the same camera in the same place and/or geometry to calculate it. The FBI's estimate was so broad that it didn't really appear very helpful.

I don't think it can be called an FBI estimate. The estimate was done with a re-enactment by local OPD based on looking at the warped POI image. They had their spokesperson out their bent over like the Hunchback of Notre Dame and froze in place in front of the gate with a giant stride.

They estimated the height of the POI as about 5'4. I would be very surprised if that isn't the height of their spokesperson officer Barbara whatever.

The only way the FBI is involved in that is that OPD forwarded a description of their methodology (run a line down from the camera to the re-enactor and use triangulation of angle and distance to compute the height) to the FBI for them to confirm was a valid methodology.

The OPD estimate was as warped as the image and the rest of their so called investigation. Local news got a picture of this re-enactment which alone should have disqualified Orlando Police Department from investigating crimes. But unfortunately for Jennifer there was plenty of other corroboration to confirm the ineptness.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9255
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of Orlando local news blurbs on 13 years since Jennifer vanished.

Cases don't get any colder than this. The Orlando Police Department insists otherwise to refuse to give a copy of the case files to Jennifer's family request for information.

And thus it ever shall be.
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Markybug



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 65
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:17 am    Post subject: Height. Reply with quote

So if we say that the poi was taller than jenn ,due to inaccurate measurement of the images , plus the seat movement, who can that rule out or in ?
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kesses seem so happy about this, but I'm not seeing it as extremely positive. I guess they are pleased that the judge is at least allowing the lawsuit to proceed.

I think they're going to end up getting a few things, but not anyways near the whole file--something like what happened with the lawsuit Tim Miller filed for his daughter's case.

Here's a quote from the Orlando Sentinel:

Quote: "Munyon suggested the parties take a step back and asked the Kesses’ attorneys to file their arguments explaining why they have a legal right to the documents. The city’s attorneys will have a chance to respond, and then the case will be back to where it was Thursday morning, said Michael Kest, another attorney for the Kesses".
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-ne-jennifer-kesse-family-records-lawsuit-20190131-story.html

http://www.fox35orlando.com/news/local-news/family-of-missing-jennifer-kesse-due-in-court-for-lawsuit-hearing

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/judge-receives-jennifer-kesse-investigative-documents-from-orlando-police

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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Height. Reply with quote

Markybug wrote:
So if we say that the poi was taller than jenn ,due to inaccurate measurement of the images , plus the seat movement, who can that rule out or in ?
I don't think we have a confirmed height for at least a couple.
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Markybug



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
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Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Jnn Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
The Kesses seem so happy about this, but I'm not seeing it as extremely positive. I guess they are pleased that the judge is at least allowing the lawsuit to proceed.

I think they're going to end up getting a few things, but not anyways near the whole file--something like what happened with the lawsuit Tim Miller filed for his daughter's case.

Here's a quote from the Orlando Sentinel:

Quote: "Munyon suggested the parties take a step back and asked the Kesses’ attorneys to file their arguments explaining why they have a legal right to the documents. The city’s attorneys will have a chance to respond, and then the case will be back to where it was Thursday morning, said Michael Kest, another attorney for the Kesses".
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-ne-jennifer-kesse-family-records-lawsuit-20190131-story.html

http://www.fox35orlando.com/news/local-news/family-of-missing-jennifer-kesse-due-in-court-for-lawsuit-hearing

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/judge-receives-jennifer-kesse-investigative-documents-from-orlando-police





I think, they are only interested in either the first few days or weeks of tips and notes anyhow? So comments on thousands of pages and , years to read should be irrelevant?
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Nancy



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Jnn Reply with quote

Markybug wrote:
I think, they are only interested in either the first few days or weeks of tips and notes anyhow? So comments on thousands of pages and , years to read should be irrelevant?
If my memory is working correctly, I believe earlier Mr. Kesse did post on the Jennifer Kesse - Please Help Find Her page that he was only interested in the first two weeks of tips.

However, awhile back I visited the site again to try to find that so I could quote it, and I couldn't locate it. Maybe I just missed it, or maybe he deleted it.

And from recent links concerning the lawsuit, it looks like they are now asking for everything.

So, I dunno.

Maybe they decided to go for everything, hoping they will get something? Anything?

I wondered about this, too.

(Just my opinion: I think it would take the judge years to work through it all because she was only counting up a few paid hours a day, or whatever, to devote to it. If it was someone who was really interested in the case, I think it would take considerably less time).
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Markybug



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Jnn Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
Markybug wrote:
I think, they are only interested in either the first few days or weeks of tips and notes anyhow? So comments on thousands of pages and , years to read should be irrelevant?
If my memory is working correctly, I believe earlier Mr. Kesse did post on the Jennifer Kesse - Please Help Find Her page that he was only interested in the first two weeks of tips.

However, awhile back I visited the site again to try to find that so I could quote it, and I couldn't locate it. Maybe I just missed it, or maybe he deleted it.

And from recent links concerning the lawsuit, it looks like they are now asking for everything.

So, I dunno.

Maybe they decided to go for everything, hoping they will get something? Anything?

I wondered about this, too.

(Just my opinion: I think it would take the judge years to work through it all because she was only counting up a few paid hours a day, or whatever, to devote to it. If it was someone who was really interested in the case, I think it would take considerably less time).



I honestly can’t see any recent “tips” helping, if there is anything, it is in the first few weeks. Though how the police haven’t found this ?
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Nancy



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Jnn Reply with quote

Markybug wrote:
I honestly can’t see any recent “tips” helping, if there is anything, it is in the first few weeks. Though how the police haven’t found this ?
Unfortunately, the only "usefulness" I see for any recent tips would be to support law enforcement's statements that the case is still active.

I believe that's the reason they canned the podcast.

But returning to the possible quest for full disclosure of the first two weeks of tips and questioning if law enforcement could have missed something. Well, maybe.

The podcast did an episode called "Breadcrumbs". It's one I haven't added to the archive yet; but I did a transcript of it on my own not long after it aired. To keep it brief, I'll share what they put together for the first two weeks of tips and a little beyond.

All that I get out of it is that after approximately the first two weeks of tips, law enforcement was so desperate they resorted to tips from psychics.

I'm going way, way out on a limb here--but maybe the Kesses' held something back from LE and they think a tip overlooked by LE would make more sense to them?

Anyway, maybe you'll come up with thoughts that have eluded me:

Quote: Among the first media reports of searches for the missing 24-year-old, was a Local 6 news report of a search on Monday, January 30, 2006. As stated in the Local 6 report, police officers searched a heavily wooded area near the location where Jennifer Kesse’s abandoned car was discovered and a scent was picked up in the area. The reporter stated one of the two strongest clues that the Orlando Police Department is sharing with the media is “the scent was picked up in the woods”. And the report also made note of the search being continued from the previous days.

Then, according to a later Action 6 news report, officers on horseback continued a grid search, Wednesday, February 1, 2006, for Jennifer Kesse. That Wednesday, teams of police officers and sheriff deputies were searching areas inside the boundaries of Texas Avenue to the west, Orange Blossom Trail to the east, Oakridge Road to the south, and Holden Avenue to the north. It is reportedly the fourth day in a row that officers had searched on horseback for clues. In the same report, it was also stated that police began what they were calling a new grid search based on tips that had been coming in. Sheriff’s deputies with the mounted patrol had jumped off of their horses and over a fence along Texas Avenue—just off of John Young Parkway after a citizen had called in a tip.

Meanwhile—over the first weekend in February—members of Child Watch of North America had been assembling volunteers at the Mall at Millenia and co-ordinated a massive search of the areas around Jennifer’s condo and the Huntington-On-The Green.

By February 7, 2006, two-weeks after Jennifer’s disappearance, police were still on the hunt. On that Tuesday, they searched an abandoned hotel Vineland Road. The abandoned hotel was slated to be demolished and police had a cadaver dog check all of the rooms along with Orlando officers. However, it turned up nothing.

The next search was reported on Sunday night, February 12, 2006. Based on a sighting at a boarding house, a tip was called in that the police considered credible. They descended upon an apartment at 1414 40th Street. The location of this home was just 2.6 miles from the Mosaic at Millenia. And, in fact, if you were to drive directly from Jennifer’s condo to the location of this home, you would turn and drive directly past the Huntington-On-The Green on Texas Avenue.

The location is owned by an individual with more than 20 arrests on his record and the location of this home is in a seedy area with apparent drug activity. “We had information that she was seen there and that she was seen alive and was being held against her will,” police Sergeant Richard Lane said at the time; continuing to add, “Detectives working the case interview that person, and that person apparently gave them enough information to make them concerned. Further records shows that the swat team searched inside the structure but did not find Jennifer, or any sign that she had been there in the past weeks.” Later, Sergeant Richard Lane would conclude by saying, “The results were negative. She was not in the residence and we are interviewing people there to see if there is a possibility that she might have been there—due to the fact that it was credible, because this is what we would expect if it was our family member. We acted appropriately, I think.”

It was shortly after this that the detective on the case was making statements that the Jennifer Kesse case would come to a conclusion by the end of the next week. However, he didn’t mention why and said that that would hurt the investigation. They claimed to have very viable evidence and mentioned that part of the investigation involves tracking down names and locations of transients. Of course, we can now say that they clearly oversold their hand.

The next reported search took a bit of a different turn. “I believe she was abducted at the mobile station on Kirkland and McCloud.” “That somebody climbed in the back seat of her car and held a knife to her throat.” “So, we believe she is in a pipe around here. Specifically, she says, Jennifer is down a waste management manhole off L B McCloud Road.” “An Orlando police detective tells me they have searched waste management around here based on Genoa’s tip. They even drained a retention pond. So, what did they find? Apparently chicken bones and a whole lot of sludge. They say they are willing to search this area again with new concrete evidence Jennifer Kesse is actually here.”

Sergeant Ring would make a statement about the search. “The psychic calls we have been getting about the Kesse case—we are not discounting them. There is the possibility that there is valid information we can use.” Detectives at that point had received 12 calls from people who identified themselves as psychics. Sergeant Ring would continue, “There is also the possibility that a person who knows information about the case who is reluctant to use a regular channel to communicate with us, might actually go to a psychic and give us tips that can help us find Miss Kesse.”

So early on in the investigation detectives were even using information from psychics to help them find areas to search.

The next known search wouldn’t be until nearly the end of 2008.

https://audioboom.com/posts/6201436-breadcrumbs


And here is something else that I find interesting, too. The link doesn't work anymore but it is a verbatim quote from the article:

Quote: Crimeline says it's only received about 50 calls regarding Kesse's disappearance.

Operators say they're surprised that number is so low, especially because of all the attention being given to the case.

What's making things worse, of the tips that are coming in, many are lacking specifics.

http://cfn13.com/StoryHeadline.aspx?id=12976


Sorry for the length of my comment, but I thought perhaps you would appreciate the transcript as opposed to re-listening to the podcast. :)

But I linked it in case you want to check the accuracy, or simply prefer to listen. (The full episode does continue on a bit).
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