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Jennifer Kesse Disappearance Discussion
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
I don't mean to be so non-helpful to everyone's questions, but I haven't listened to any podcasts. Basically I read posts of people pointing out stuff in them.

Obviously, the podcasts can't be of Jennifer herself so I take it that is shorthand for you think you recall Jennifer's parents saying Jennifer mentioned a name to them of one of the workers.

I'm intrigued by the concept of deciphering speech as a name and initial. Not to mention how unusual it is for a resident to be aware of and know the name of a worker and the worker identifying himself to her in such a way. How does one do that? Hi, I'm Juan M, your friendly punch list stalker, in Spanish?

Speaking of which, I see you identifed what a punch list is, but where does this terminology come from? Is that from Kesse in the podcast? That is really strange way to describe maintenance.
RD, I had a chuckle when I read the BBM because I had never heard of a "punch list" before this case.

Yep, as Elk confirms, Mr. Kesse and the podcast people use the terminology regularly.

I even Googled it at one point. Here is Google's definition, from Wikipedia:

Quote: A punch list is a document prepared near the end of a construction project listing work not conforming to contract specifications that the contractor must complete prior to final payment. The work may include incomplete or incorrect installations or incidental damage to existing finishes, material, and structures.
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Nancy



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Hi rd-

Regarding the ‘punch list,’ I’ve heard Mr. Kesse mention this in some of the interviews he’s done. But I also found this from the WS site posted back in June 2007!

‘She had a "punch list" is what I've heard it referred to, and she chose to be home when the work was being done on her condo per the interviews. She would always be on the phone with someone- mom, dad, etc. while any of the workers were in her condo. There were a lot of empty units at Mosaic as not a lot of the apartments had sold.’
BBM - Please understand that you are not alone in reading and/or hearing something and not being able to link it. I've had an embarrassing amount of problems with that in this case.

However, the name is really important because without one of the Kesses mentioning it there is nothing other than the "location" connecting this individual (or individuals) to Jennifer's case.

I don't think it comes from the podcast--and I could be wrong. But I spent some amount of time yesterday re-listening to episodes, and I didn't come across it.
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rd



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know how many podcasts / videos / etc. there are on Jennifer Kesse case? Back in the day we put together a bibliography of everything in Chandra Levy case. Our longtime admin jane did that work.

Nancy has provided some very helpful transcript info. I'm wondering if we can help her out and have the podcast transcripts posted here. If I want to know whather something was said in Chandra case I do a search here and it's posted somewhere.

I did a search on Youtube closed captioning transcript and looks like there are some options for creating a transcript from auto-generated closed captioning. It would have to be edited as to who was speaking but getting the transcript generated is the bulk of it. Are any of these podcasts on Youtube? Can anyone chip in and help generate the closed captioning transcripts? Posting would be one transcript to a thread.

The first search result I looked at was stackoverflow, and it was pretty complete with options. I'm just throwing this out there in case someone else can use the info.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
Elk573 wrote:
Hi rd-

Regarding the ‘punch list,’ I’ve heard Mr. Kesse mention this in some of the interviews he’s done. But I also found this from the WS site posted back in June 2007!

‘She had a "punch list" is what I've heard it referred to, and she chose to be home when the work was being done on her condo per the interviews. She would always be on the phone with someone- mom, dad, etc. while any of the workers were in her condo. There were a lot of empty units at Mosaic as not a lot of the apartments had sold.’
BBM - Please understand that you are not alone in reading and/or hearing something and not being able to link it. I've had more than my share of problems with that in this case, in particular.

However, it's really important because without one of the Kesses mentioning the name there is nothing other than the "location" connecting this individual to Jennifer's case.


yes, agreed, this is really important. Links should be provided if there is a working link for multiple reasons, but even if no working link, where specifically information came from must be provided. If not we are only promulgating rumors. Which we don't do.

(Nancy in under "edit"--amending do to request from Elk and approved by RD)
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
Does anyone know how many podcasts / videos / etc. there are on Jennifer Kesse case? Back in the day we put together a bibliography of everything in Chandra Levy case. Our longtime admin jane did that work.

Nancy has provided some very helpful transcript info. I'm wondering if we can help her out and have the podcast transcripts posted here. If I want to know whather something was said in Chandra case I do a search here and it's posted somewhere.

I did a search on Youtube closed captioning transcript and looks like there are some options for creating a transcript from auto-generated closed captioning. It would have to be edited as to who was speaking but getting the transcript generated is the bulk of it. Are any of these podcasts on Youtube? Can anyone chip in and help generate the closed captioning transcripts? Posting would be one transcript to a thread.

The first search result I looked at was stackoverflow, and it was pretty complete with options. I'm just throwing this out there in case someone else can use the info.
I'll have to check, but I believe they are all on YouTube. I don't think the YouTube videos have the podcast "blessing" but I'm quite sure they contain the whole episodes.

In total, counting the sidebar episodes, there about 34 episodes.

I'd be willing to volunteer some time towards it.

I haven't got a clue about doing it, though. Or if my computer would even allow it, but I'd try.
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Elk573



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
Elk, that's a lot of research. When did you take up researching this? What got you interested in Jennifer Kesse's case?



Hi rd-

To be honest, I haven’t been researching the Jennifer Kesse case for very long. Especially when I look back and see how long some of you have been posting, commenting and conducting your research which is incredible! I first came across the Kesse case maybe 6 or 7 years ago when I saw it on dateline or one of those shows. Then this summer I stumbled upon the podcast, ‘Unconcluded’ and that’s really when my research started. I really recommend the podcast, I find the interviews with Mr. and Mrs. Kesse particularly interesting and it’s great that they took part in it.

What interests me about the case? How perplexing it is with so many questions and so few answers. I also feel really bad for the Kesse family and my heart breaks for them when I see or hear their interviews. I can’t imagine going 12.5 + years and not knowing day after day where your loved one is. So sad.

So with the podcast, when something interested me or I wanted to know more on something that was said, I would search and see what else came up on it. When I saw on the map the street where those 2 assailants were arrested from, it also showed how close they were to that church the tipster spoke about.
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Nancy



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

myserty64 wrote:
I haven't listened to the podcast and I have no intention of listening.
Over the years, all twelve of them, I believe I have read many interesting opinions from what I consider to be caring and astute posters.
I don't see a podcast adding anything I haven't heard before.

I do greatly value everyone's opinions and ideas on this site.
BBM Mystery, how do you manage to exercise such good judgement? :)

After a while, all this stuff starts to blend together and make things more confusing.

The twelve years of accrued knowledge that you bring to this case is very valuable.
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Elk573



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
Nancy wrote:
Elk573 wrote:
Hi rd-

Regarding the ‘punch list,’ I’ve heard Mr. Kesse mention this in some of the interviews he’s done. But I also found this from the WS site posted back in June 2007!

‘She had a "punch list" is what I've heard it referred to, and she chose to be home when the work was being done on her condo per the interviews. She would always be on the phone with someone- mom, dad, etc. while any of the workers were in her condo. There were a lot of empty units at Mosaic as not a lot of the apartments had sold.’
BBM - Please understand that you are not alone in reading and/or hearing something and not being able to link it. I've had more than my share of problems with that in this case, in particular.

However, it's really important because without one of the Kesses mentioning the name there is nothing other than the "location" connecting this individual to Jennifer's case.


yes, agreed, this is really important. Links should be provided if there is a working link for multiple reasons, but even if no working link, where specifically information came from must be provided. If not we are only promulgating rumors. Which we don't do.



May be best to remove that part? I’m totally fine with removing that paragraph. I think that the location of where the assailants were arrested is still important though when you consider what the tipster spoke about and what she said she witnessed behind the church.
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Nancy



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Also, in interviews Mr. Kesse has had, he mentioned that either one or two of the workers that worked in her condo were later arrested at some point for something else, but they were questioned on Jennifer’s disappearance and passed a polygraph. This had me curious so I decided to do a search on ‘Jennifer Kesse, Juan M.’
And Mr. Kesse knows at least one of these workers lied on the poly--are we in agreement?


Elk573 wrote:
There is a LOT of info out there on a Juan M and another person who were arrested back in 2009 for a sexual assault. They were then found guilty of their crime and are now serving a life sentence. Both of these men are illegal immigrants and were contractors/painters. There has been a lot written about these 2 on both the WS site and the Jennifer Kesse forum.
I can't find any indication that either of them were painters. One a construction worker and one an unemployed laborer--is what I have from articles.


Elk573 wrote:
The crime these men were found guilty of is heinous... They abducted a 11 year old girl at knifepoint, brough her to a abandoned house and raped her. They were also linked to another possible rape that happened in 2008 where they also abducted a pregnant woman and raped her.
Okay. I know from this that we are talking about the same two men.


Elk573 wrote:
In my research I looked for any possible link to them working at the Mosaic, but wasn’t able to find anything. But if you look at my previous post and how workers are somehow rounded up for the day, it’s possible that they could have worked at the Mosaic and there is no record of it.
I didn't find anything, either. Of course, I see where it is arguable with your quote from the Guest Book and the location of where they lived and committed their crimes--but that's all it is for me, anyway.


Elk573 wrote:
I did see that one of them were also arrested in 2007 for domestic abuse on their spouse. I tried to find anything on their whereabout in 2006, but couldn’t find anything.
Yeah. Nothing anywhere so far for 2006. One article states they arrived in January, 2008, but from reading several articles, I get the impression that they may have been entering, getting deported, and returning. So, I dunno.


Elk573 wrote:
I only found 1 post on this forum about these 2 and it was written by rd back in Feb 2009! No one else seemed to chime in on this though.

Here is rd’s post (rd, hope this is ok!):

———————————————————————————————————
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3311615&posted=1#post3311615

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-rape-girl-021209,0,5794924.story?page=2

Some info about two violent sex assaulters in the area Jennifer lived from cloudajo's post on websleuths. An 11 year old girl abducted on her way to school and raped by two illegal aliens, just the latest of a string of heineous sexual assaults by them.

I hope they can determine the whereabouts of these two worthless scumbags in January 2006. Hernandez-Monzalvo was out terrorizing people women as early as summer 2005.

And even if neither one of them did construction work at the Mosaic, they live in the area and could easily pass as one of the workers, etc.

Besides the obvious fact of what I think the suspect was wearing, it would be very unusual to make a victim disappear and then go on this string of rapes and assaults and walking away from them, or letting them off somewhere, etc.

Obviously anything can happen, Jennifer could possibly have put up a fight where the assaulter murdered her, but still would be very unusual to have that much of a difference.

Notice that the police didn't bother to look for illegal immigration until a child rape crime. They were brought in over and over and nobody cares we have these criminals running around terrorizing decent people. Then all of a sudden gee, these are illegals, we're going to re-open a case where they refused to even show up for court, and put a "hold" on them.

Like you couldn't have done that the first half dozen times you had them in custody?

Of course they could have. Like I always say though, somebody has to die first before anybody cares.

These men shouldn't be allowed to roam free even in a prison. Of course that's true for all the violent felons.

A cage in the desert is all we should spend on them. A little girl has to suffer the horror of what they did the rest of her life, and a pregnant mom, and on and on.

Stupid is the least of what they are.

rd

———————————————————————


Ok... I’ll next write about how I may have made a connection to one of the tipsters in the podcast.
Oh, I see RD mentions one of them terrorizing women as early as summer, 2005. Interesting.
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Nancy



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Ok... This leads me to one of the tipsters in the podcast. This could be nothing at all, but I find it a little strange and it’s really nagging me!

For those who haven’t listened to the podcast, I’ll sum up what this tipster said, it’s from episode 18.

The woman that spoke said that she had called this tip in twice back in 2006 but never heard back from LE. She also stopped and spoke to the Kesse’s once when she saw them with signs on the side of the road, but they instructed her also to contact LE.

Back in 2006, this woman lived on Wingate Dr and her back porch overlooked the back of the ‘Oak Ridge Baptist Church’ which is on W Oakridge Rd.

One night on or around Jennifer’s disappearance, this woman went out on her back porch to have a cigarette and saw something strange. It was dark out, but she said that in the back of the church, she could clearly see 2 cars parked side by side with headlights on pointed towards the woods. She said that one of the cars was dark and she thinks it may have been Jennifer Kesse’s. I question this though b/c it was dark out and the car was dark, so it would have been hard to see and identify as Jennifer’s car.

But in addition to the cars, this woman also saw a tall, slim man that had a ponytail. When he saw her, he seemed startled and reached into one of the cars and started flashing the headlights which again were pointed towards the woods. She thinks that he started flashing the headlights to maybe warn someone who was in the woods. This really scared her and she went back inside her house. So she doesn’t know if or who came out of the woods.
This is an excellent summation, btw. You know, one beef I have with all the witnesses the podcast dug up is that every single one of them mentions a guy with a pony-tail. I don't know about anyone else, but to me it sure seems like they are trying to fit what they saw or what they think they saw to the very popular description of the hair style of the man in the stills.

Interesting to note, though: Morales-Marin is 5' 11" and weighed 176 lbs in 2010.


Elk573 wrote:
So, I googled this church and through google earth, it looks like there is some really dense woods back there. According to the podcast, this location was never searched in relation to Jennifer Kesse.

Now, here is what I found that I think might be a little strange. 3 years later in 2009, the 2 sexual offenders I mentioned in my previous post were arrested on Citadel Dr. Citadel Dr is the VERY next street over from Wingate Dr where this woman witnessed this strange behavior behind the church.

I tried in vain to find out where these 2 offenders were living in 2006, but I unfortunately couldn’t find anything. Could it be a coincidence? Maybe... But, it’s also SO close to where this woman reported seeing this strange behavior.

Also, the poor 11 year old girl was raped not far from this location, just 2 miles away. In addition, the church is only 1.7 miles from the Mosaic and 2 miles from HOG so all close distance wise.

Regardless of whether there’s a connection here or not, I absolutely think the woods behind the Oak Ridge Baptist Church should be searched. What if they find something? Even the laptop or the phones? Who knows...
If we take away the pretty iffy statements by the witness--she cannot even put a date to her sighting--what are we left with in connection to Jennifer Kesse?

Unless the property owners, ie the church, invites searchers in; I can't see there being enough for law enforcement to obtain a search warrant.

I think they are both still in prison--so why not have someone from law enforcement go visit them. Each separately, and simply say to each one: Do you know where Jennifer Kesse is? If you do and if you will reveal the exact location so that we can return her to her parents, we will make it worth your while.

And I'm not meaning to offer them their freedom; but, these guys, rightfully so, had the book thrown at them--they both got consecutive life sentences and the judge added that when they die their remains are to be shipped out of the country due to their unworthiness.

So, if LE did a little research, maybe they could find a way to make a small deal without giving away the store. A deal for Jennifer Kesse. To bring her home. Away from where ever she is. After 12 years.

Here is a quote from Mr. Kesse. It can't be said any clearer, and I would prefer the words come from him.

This was from Drew in 2006: Think about that, in 2006:

Quote: "We have undying love for Jennifer, and we will not stop," Drew Kesse said. "Jennifer will come home someday. I'm not going to have my daughter in a shallow grave or in water somewhere for the rest of my life. That's just not in the cards."
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/13/dad-hopes-orlando-death-leaves-clues-missing-gaith/
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Elk573



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy- Please see my answers to your questions inline.






Elk573 wrote:
Also, in interviews Mr. Kesse has had, he mentioned that either one or two of the workers that worked in her condo were later arrested at some point for something else, but they were questioned on Jennifer’s disappearance and passed a polygraph. ’
And Mr. Kesse knows at least one of these workers lied on the poly--are we in agreement?

Elk- Actually to my understanding, the worker who took the poly passed and therefore was not lying. That’s the sense I got from it anyways.


Elk573 wrote:
There is a LOT of info out there on a Juan M and another person who were arrested back in 2009 for a sexual assault. They were then found guilty of their crime and are now serving a life sentence. Both of these men are illegal immigrants and were contractors/painters. There has been a lot written about these 2 on both the WS site and the Jennifer Kesse forum.
I can't find any indication that either of them were painters. One a construction worker and one an unemployed laborer--is what I have from articles.

Elk- Ok, thank you for clarifying.


Elk573 wrote:
The crime these men were found guilty of is heinous... They abducted a 11 year old girl at knifepoint, brough her to a abandoned house and raped her. They were also linked to another possible rape that happened in 2008 where they also abducted a pregnant woman and raped her.
Okay. I know from this that we are talking about the same two men.

Elk- Ok, thank you.


Elk573 wrote:
In my research I looked for any possible link to them working at the Mosaic, but wasn’t able to find anything. But if you look at my previous post and how workers are somehow rounded up for the day, it’s possible that they could have worked at the Mosaic and there is no record of it.
I didn't find anything, either. Of course, I see where it is arguable with your quote from the Guest Book and the location of where they lived and committed their crimes--but that's all it is for me, anyway.

Elk- Agreed


Elk573 wrote:
I did see that one of them were also arrested in 2007 for domestic abuse on their spouse. I tried to find anything on their whereabout in 2006, but couldn’t find anything.
Yeah. Nothing anywhere so far for 2006. One article states they arrived in January, 2008, but from reading several articles, I get the impression that they may have been entering, getting deported, and returning. So, I dunno.

Elk- Here you go... Here’s an article from 2009 that mentions that one of them was jailed in 2007 for domestic violence.

http://www.wesh.com/article/rape-suspect-may-be-linked-to-2008-case/4354406



Elk573 wrote:
I only found 1 post on this forum about these 2 and it was written by rd back in Feb 2009! No one else seemed to chime in on this though.

Here is rd’s post (rd, hope this is ok!):

———————————————————————————————————
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3311615&posted=1#post3311615

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-rape-girl-021209,0,5794924.story?page=2

Some info about two violent sex assaulters in the area Jennifer lived from cloudajo's post on websleuths. An 11 year old girl abducted on her way to school and raped by two illegal aliens, just the latest of a string of heineous sexual assaults by them.

I hope they can determine the whereabouts of these two worthless scumbags in January 2006. Hernandez-Monzalvo was out terrorizing people women as early as summer 2005.

And even if neither one of them did construction work at the Mosaic, they live in the area and could easily pass as one of the workers, etc.

Besides the obvious fact of what I think the suspect was wearing, it would be very unusual to make a victim disappear and then go on this string of rapes and assaults and walking away from them, or letting them off somewhere, etc.

Obviously anything can happen, Jennifer could possibly have put up a fight where the assaulter murdered her, but still would be very unusual to have that much of a difference.

Notice that the police didn't bother to look for illegal immigration until a child rape crime. They were brought in over and over and nobody cares we have these criminals running around terrorizing decent people. Then all of a sudden gee, these are illegals, we're going to re-open a case where they refused to even show up for court, and put a "hold" on them.

Like you couldn't have done that the first half dozen times you had them in custody?

Of course they could have. Like I always say though, somebody has to die first before anybody cares.

These men shouldn't be allowed to roam free even in a prison. Of course that's true for all the violent felons.

A cage in the desert is all we should spend on them. A little girl has to suffer the horror of what they did the rest of her life, and a pregnant mom, and on and on.

Stupid is the least of what they are.

rd

———————————————————————


Ok... I’ll next write about how I may have made a connection to one of the tipsters in the podcast.
Oh, I see RD mentions one of them terrorizing women as early as summer, 2005. Interesting.[/quote]

Elk- I also agree that this is interesting. Would be interested to see what was happening in 2005. [/b]
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Elk573



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
Elk573 wrote:
Ok... This leads me to one of the tipsters in the podcast. This could be nothing at all, but I find it a little strange and it’s really nagging me!

For those who haven’t listened to the podcast, I’ll sum up what this tipster said, it’s from episode 18.

The woman that spoke said that she had called this tip in twice back in 2006 but never heard back from LE. She also stopped and spoke to the Kesse’s once when she saw them with signs on the side of the road, but they instructed her also to contact LE.

Back in 2006, this woman lived on Wingate Dr and her back porch overlooked the back of the ‘Oak Ridge Baptist Church’ which is on W Oakridge Rd.

One night on or around Jennifer’s disappearance, this woman went out on her back porch to have a cigarette and saw something strange. It was dark out, but she said that in the back of the church, she could clearly see 2 cars parked side by side with headlights on pointed towards the woods. She said that one of the cars was dark and she thinks it may have been Jennifer Kesse’s. I question this though b/c it was dark out and the car was dark, so it would have been hard to see and identify as Jennifer’s car.

But in addition to the cars, this woman also saw a tall, slim man that had a ponytail. When he saw her, he seemed startled and reached into one of the cars and started flashing the headlights which again were pointed towards the woods. She thinks that he started flashing the headlights to maybe warn someone who was in the woods. This really scared her and she went back inside her house. So she doesn’t know if or who came out of the woods.
This is an excellent summation, btw. You know, one beef I have with all the witnesses the podcast dug up is that every single one of them mentions a guy with a pony-tail. I don't know about anyone else, but to me it sure seems like they are trying to fit what they saw or what they think they saw to the very popular description of the hair style of the man in the stills.

Interesting to note, though: Morales-Marin is 5' 11" and weighed 176 lbs in 2010.


Elk573 wrote:
So, I googled this church and through google earth, it looks like there is some really dense woods back there. According to the podcast, this location was never searched in relation to Jennifer Kesse.

Now, here is what I found that I think might be a little strange. 3 years later in 2009, the 2 sexual offenders I mentioned in my previous post were arrested on Citadel Dr. Citadel Dr is the VERY next street over from Wingate Dr where this woman witnessed this strange behavior behind the church.

I tried in vain to find out where these 2 offenders were living in 2006, but I unfortunately couldn’t find anything. Could it be a coincidence? Maybe... But, it’s also SO close to where this woman reported seeing this strange behavior.

Also, the poor 11 year old girl was raped not far from this location, just 2 miles away. In addition, the church is only 1.7 miles from the Mosaic and 2 miles from HOG so all close distance wise.

Regardless of whether there’s a connection here or not, I absolutely think the woods behind the Oak Ridge Baptist Church should be searched. What if they find something? Even the laptop or the phones? Who knows...
If we take away the pretty iffy statements by the witness--she cannot even put a date to her sighting--what are we left with in connection to Jennifer Kesse?

Unless the property owners, ie the church, invites searchers in; I can't see there being enough for law enforcement to obtain a search warrant.

I think they are both still in prison--so why not have someone from law enforcement go visit them. Each separately, and simply say to each one: Do you know where Jennifer Kesse is? If you do and if you will reveal the exact location so that we can return her to her parents, we will make it worth your while.

And I'm not meaning to offer them their freedom; but, these guys, rightfully so, had the book thrown at them--they both got consecutive life sentences and the judge added that when they die their remains are to be shipped out of the country due to their unworthiness.

So, if LE did a little research, maybe they could find a way to make a small deal without giving away the store. A deal for Jennifer Kesse. To bring her home. Away from where ever she is. After 12 years.

Here is a quote from Mr. Kesse. It can't be said any clearer, and I would prefer the words come from him.

This was from Drew in 2006: Think about that, in 2006:

Quote: "We have undying love for Jennifer, and we will not stop," Drew Kesse said. "Jennifer will come home someday. I'm not going to have my daughter in a shallow grave or in water somewhere for the rest of my life. That's just not in the cards."
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/13/dad-hopes-orlando-death-leaves-clues-missing-gaith/





Nancy- That’s a great but sad quote from Mr Kesse. I truly hope he gets the answers to his questions someday.


There is an ‘Unconcluded Discussion Group’ on Facebook and they keep a running list of facts and some things that have been debunked from the case. Here are somethings that might be useful in our discussion:

*Construction workers were allowed to live in empty units at Mosaic during an apartment-to-condominium conversion. (Many workers were undocumented). Jennifer had complained to her family and friends about some of the workers making catcalls. The condominium across from Jennifer was unlocked and undergoing construction. Logan and his friend entered the condo in search of Jennifer. There was no carpet. Later, law enforcement checked the unit as well—although no forensic tests were performed. They searched many empty units in Jennifer’s building, but some were privately-owned and not searched.(Jennifer had not filed a complaint about the workers)

*Regarding Oak Ridge Baptist church, where a witness saw a car (that looked like Jenn’s) and a man with a ponytail flashing headlights late at night, there are no immediate plans to search the property. The podcast has tried to contact the owners, but it’s proved difficult. The church appears inactive at this time. The phone numbers are disconnected. One of the 2006 incorporators (added since the 2005 annual filing) lived at HOTG where Jennifer’s car was found. One of the ministers has a criminal record.

Because Mosaic was undergoing an apartment to condo conversion, Jennifer had a punch-out list before her condo was ‘perfect’ and met the contract. Jennifer came home during lunch and talked on the phone while the painters did their thing. One day, Jennifer was on the phone with her father while a specific painter was in her condo. Couple years later, the painter got arrested. He lied and said Jennifer left him alone in her condo and ‘to lock up when done’, which Jennifer’s father knows to be untrue. The painter took a lie detector test and passed.

Question about painter/punch list man who was arrested later and passed a lie detector about Jennifer. He’s Hispanic, but there’s little information about his physical description.
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myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 82
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee there is a lot of posts here while we were sleeping. It will take a while to to take it all in.
I work mainly from memory which at my age is a risky proposition.

I have a question or two.
Mosaic was originally known as Tradition apartments, is that correct.

Back in the day did Tradition have a similar reputation as HTOG?
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myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 82
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polygraphs are a problem as we all know.

People who should pass them sometimes fail or show deception.

On the other hand people pass them when they are guilty and should have failed.

So the fact the guy from Jennifer's condo passed a polygraph should not mean innocence.
Also the polygraph operator is of immense importance; critical in fact.

In the USA there is probably only a handful of top flight polygraph operators.

There are some people associated with this case that need the fire and brimstone approach in the interogation room and new polygraphs with operators of renown.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk wrote: Here is rd’s post (rd, hope this is ok!):

Thanks for asking, but of course, posts are made to be quoted. I will take a look at it and see what I remember of it.

thanks Elk.
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