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Jennifer Kesse Disappearance Discussion
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Hi-

Iím new to the board and would like to jump into this discussion! Iíve been reading as much as I can about Jenniferís disappearance and think itís great to see so many people talking about it and trying to solve this sad mystery. My heart really goes out to her and to her family and itís terrible that there have been no answers in over 12 years.

Nancy- I wanted to thank you for the post from yesterday that had all the pictures! I took some time and studied each one. The pictures really helped in bringing some things together.

Regarding the broken fence... I read a theory somewhere that seems to make sense and then Iím going to try and connect it to Bo.

First, as discussed in the podcast and on some of the discussion boards, the Mosaic apartment keys for all units were stolen about a month before Jenniferís disappearance. Someone came forward on the podcast saying that they heard someone trying to get into their apartment using keys! Luckily they had a deadbolt so whoever it was could not get in.

Therefore, it sounds like whoever stole the Mosaic keys were then using them to try and break into the apartments. One of the theories I heard was that the thieves may have been using the back fence to access the Mosaic grounds So they wouldnít have to go through the security gate and possibly be seen.

Now hereís where I tie in Bo...

If Bo tracked someone from HOG to the broken fence and then to the stairs leading to Jenniferís apartment, could it be possibly that he had picked up on an earlier scent from someone who was stealing from the apartments?

If that is the case, is it possible that the person who was stealing from the apartments is one in the same as the person who was involved with Jenniferís disappearance?

I tried to find online if anyone had ever been arrested for the Mosaic apartment thefts but unfortunately I didnít find anything on this.

Thoughts?
Welcome to the forum, Elk; and thank you for your kind words.

This is a really interesting and original theory. Thank you for sharing.

The first thing that struck me was that it is rumored Jennifer woke up one night about two weeks before she went on vacation and believed she heard someone "jiggling" her doorknob. It could have been someone trying out a key.

And then there was a knock on her door sometime during the evening of the 23rd that she did not answer but believed to be her upstairs, male neighbor.

Could the actual person who did the knocking have believed the condo was empty and decided to let himself in for a visit later?

I admit at this point things begin not to fit for me--no evidence of a struggle; Jennifer's cell phone or both cell phones begin to show movement by pinging.

Also, I'm not sure about the possibility of an "earlier scent"; however, I do believe it has been stated in solid media write-ups that LE simply opened the driver's side door of Jenn's car and let Bo sniff around the seat.

So, if the person who had the set of keys to all condos happened to be the POI, it could indicate he simply walked home and used the stairwell to go up to his condo.

It would be interesting to know if law enforcement was ever actually called to investigate any of the break-ins of the condo units, and if they ever found any finger prints and DNA that they could match as much as possible to the partial print and partial DNA profile found in Jennifer's vehicle. They would have to connect him with something solid like that; or preferably more solid, before they could really question him.

But would a person with the intent to steal keys and rob condos develop the motive to harm Jennifer; and not only harm her but to have had such success as to make her completely vanish? I don't know.

However, I do know that parts of this really seem to fit; and are most interesting to contemplate.
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Elk573



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! For the record, I usually have to double park my car as well!

Regarding parking Jenniferís car at HOG... I also believe that the POI was familiar with this property and reputation and wanted Jennifer somehow connected to it. Maybe to paint Jenn in a bad light?

But on the flip side, maybe the POI just wanted to park it far enough away but within distance where he could still walk back to the Mosaic? Especially if they were working there or somewhere close by... But now Iím rethinking this after some of you spoke about the POI stopping at the tree!

For the scent that Bo picked up of the POI back to the Mosaic that stopped at the bottom of the stairs... The scent doesnít seem to go anywhere from there right? I find that a bit odd. And why would they go back to that location after dropping off the car? I would think that they would want to be as far from there as possible.

One other possibility... What if the scent that Bo picked up from the HOG to the Mosaic, through the broken fence, that stopped at the bottom of the stairs was the path the POI took BEFORE Jenn went missing. There are some theories out there that she may have been grabbed the morning of the 24th by someone who was hiding behind the stairs on the first floor.

So many possibilities!
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Elk573



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy- Yes... I also heard that Jennifer mentioned hearing someone jiggling her doorknob a few weeks before she went missing. I canít believe that mosaic property management let anyone take those keys without keeping record of who took what key. So careless... And then all the condo keys were stolen?! Mosaic should have alerted all condo owners that this happened so they could have changed their locks.

In the podcast, Mr Kesse mentioned that he taught Jennifer how to barricade her door with a chair and she would do that every night, but who knows...
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myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 81
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to post an image here but I have no clue on how to do it.
You might be able to help Nancy since there are photos in your reply about Bo.

From the research I did it looks like I have to upload the picture to a place like Photo Bucket and then take it from there.
However I still couldn't fathom the next step.

Sometimes I feel like I belong to the era of the Dinosaurs.
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myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 81
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early on the FBI got involved in this case but if my memory serves me right they bailed out after a short while.
OPD would have asked them to check the case?
Was this because it was considered a kidnapping?
Or human trafficking? (I just don't buy this angle)

Next question: Why did the FBI discontinue their involvement after a relatively short period of time?
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

myserty64 wrote:
I wanted to post an image here but I have no clue on how to do it.
You might be able to help Nancy since there are photos in your reply about Bo.

From the research I did it looks like I have to upload the picture to a place like Photo Bucket and then take it from there.
However I still couldn't fathom the next step.

Sometimes I feel like I belong to the era of the Dinosaurs.
Hey, now. This is one dinosaur talking to another. And what's worse for me is my "equipment" is straight from the dinosaur age.

So, I'm hoping RD will weigh in on this, but I think we need an URL address to add an image on this forum--so, yes, you can get that from a site like Photo Bucket.

I'm not familiar with Photo Bucket, though. I use one called TinyPic. I don't believe another soul still uses it, but I have stuck with it for years as my computer seems to like it.

If the picture is already on the web and you can get a URL for the picture--sometimes you can get it by simply right clicking on it--feel free to post it here. I will come in and add the image parameters around it and that should make it appear for us.

Now-a-days, though; with that Google cloud stuff, you can simply drag and drop right from your own computer to add a picture on the forums driven by newer (and problem ridden) software.

So, like everything having to do with computers, there are a gazillion different ways of doing stuff and it's always ever changing. Not always for the best, in my humblest of opinions. :)

But, give it a try. We can fix it. And then once we all get on the same page and see what method you are trying; we can better offer assistance.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9235
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that info Nancy.

The first step after having an image to post is to get it on a server. That might be an image serving service which has a site registration, login, and upload interface.

Many of these sites have gone out of business through the years (were start up funded and ran out of money, etc.). I've seen lots of links no longer working because the server service is no longer working. I see Nancy says she uses TinyPic. All you need is one image serving site and get the directions for transferring your images to the site (uploading).

As part of that process you will be given a link (URL) to each image. To post an image here, there is a bracket syntax you can type or there is also a button to click above your post when making a post, for example for images there is the Img button. You copy in the link and while it's highlighted click on Img and it puts the bracket syntax for images around the link. You can type it directly or click Img button to do it. All it is is '['img']' in front of the image url and '['/img']' after it (with no apostrophes around the brackets, they are there so you can see the syntax, with no apostrophes around the brackets it executes when post displays and you don't see it, just the effect it has on the image link, which is to retrieve the image and display it).

Lastly, I store all my images on this board server. I don't have an upload interface for members to upload images but if there's a need I can see about getting something in place. I FTP the images to the server using separate software.

You can do a little test and delete the post, can't hurt anything.

thanks
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
I don't think there's any way in the world that the OPD have pictures of the POI walking back in the lane and didn't release them. The bars wouldn't be directly across his face, it would be another perspective for identifying him, judging his height, perspective on his hair/hat, etc.

They were looking, belatedly, for public's help in identifying the POI. How about hey, we have some pictures where the POI's face is obscured by fence rails but we're not going to show pictures where he's farther away from the fence. Just because we like saying he walked away and never looked back.
I'm sure you are correct, RD.

I'm feeling desperate enough to look in cracks which are probably empty.

Before I totally drop the subject, though, I want to remind everyone that it is quite likely that there are 20 seconds of the released video missing. It is the 20 seconds between the image of the POI at the 2nd fence post and the image of the POI beside the palm tree. And I'll never totally agree that there couldn't be more missing. What if he crossed the lane at the palm tree and is hardly visible in the video? What if his face is still obscured by the fence posts? (No-one could say he didn't know about the camera then--but maybe they would want to keep that to themselves).

It's my hope that LE is holding something significant back. If it's not missing portions of the video, then I hope it's what could be revealed by the time of each ping and the location of the towers involved.



rd wrote:
The one bus stop that I recall on Texas was across the street from the entrance, near the entrance into the strip mall. There were also bus stops on corners of Americana and Texas, not that far away.
Do you agree that there are two entrances to the HOTG? Just to confirm.



rd wrote:
I just took a look at Street View and there is also a bus stop at the entrace into HOTG. No sidewalk, just a bench to sit after you walk out the entrance, or cross the street to that bus stop if you're going north on Texas. A sidewalk over there. Was there when I visited HOTG years ago.

Basically the bench bus stops are where people can walk out the apartments at a car entrance and wait for a bus. No sidewalk needed.

A plant is no good if the person planting it is spotted. The whole point is to cast doubt about who in HOTG stole it and parked it there.
The same would apply for a ditching, though. YMMV



rd wrote:
Geez, I tried to drive street view into HOTG and park where the POI parked. It will sit right at the entrance looking at the pool but won't go in. Pretty amazing.
Interesting and thanks for taking a look on street view. I don't have what it takes to run that view anymore.

It sounds like there hasn't been great advances in that area, because I remember back a couple of years ago I could turn off a main drag onto a side street but that would be it--no advancement down the side street.

I miss it, though. If I persist in using it, my computer will place me in something called "lite" mode and it really sucks. All it is basically is street maps.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! For the record, I usually have to double park my car as well!

Regarding parking Jenniferís car at HOG... I also believe that the POI was familiar with this property and reputation and wanted Jennifer somehow connected to it. Maybe to paint Jenn in a bad light?

But on the flip side, maybe the POI just wanted to park it far enough away but within distance where he could still walk back to the Mosaic? Especially if they were working there or somewhere close by... But now Iím rethinking this after some of you spoke about the POI stopping at the tree!

For the scent that Bo picked up of the POI back to the Mosaic that stopped at the bottom of the stairs... The scent doesnít seem to go anywhere from there right? I find that a bit odd. And why would they go back to that location after dropping off the car? I would think that they would want to be as far from there as possible.
Yes, that's my understanding. The scent stopped at the bottom step of the stairwell. There has been discussion that tracking dogs do not or cannot track up stairs, but nothing supported with a link.

However, if the above is true, I would guess it indicates that the POI did continue up the stairs; and to their own condo, or possibly to work in one. I don't really consider the POI returning to stage Jennifer's condo viable. (I'm often wrong, though).



Elk573 wrote:
One other possibility... What if the scent that Bo picked up from the HOG to the Mosaic, through the broken fence, that stopped at the bottom of the stairs was the path the POI took BEFORE Jenn went missing.
I had thoughts along this line at one point. Recently I heard a sheriff in another case I followed give a good explanation of how tracking dogs are trained to only track the most recent path, going forward.

Mystery found a good snippet explaining, too:

Quote:
Mystery's snippet:

Once the bloodhound identifies the trail, it will not divert its attention despite being assailed by a multitude of other odors.
Only when the dog finds the source of the scent or reaches the end of the trail will it relent.




Elk573 wrote:
There are some theories out there that she may have been grabbed the morning of the 24th by someone who was hiding behind the stairs on the first floor.

So many possibilities!
And so little evidence. What really happened to brilliant, 24-year-old, Jennifer Joyce Kesse?
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Elk573



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi- Iím curious where I can view the image of the POI next to the palm tree? I donít think Iíve viewed that before.

I also agree that LE is holding back on evidence. Hopefully if this case is ever deemed a Ďcold case,í theyíll release the rest of what they have.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Nancy- Yes... I also heard that Jennifer mentioned hearing someone jiggling her doorknob a few weeks before she went missing. I canít believe that mosaic property management let anyone take those keys without keeping record of who took what key. So careless... And then all the condo keys were stolen?! Mosaic should have alerted all condo owners that this happened so they could have changed their locks.

In the podcast, Mr Kesse mentioned that he taught Jennifer how to barricade her door with a chair and she would do that every night, but who knows...
I agree. Even though she promised him that she did do it every night, she may not have. There is quite a lot of effort involved in that.

And if she went out on her own the night in question, the chair would offer no protection.

Also, I believe I read somewhere that Mr. Kesse said he had installed a deadbolt of some sort on Jennifer's door that she could only lock from the inside. Have you ever heard that; and, if so, would you have any suggestions as to where I might look to find a linkable source for it?

I'm sure I read it, but I cannot find it again anywhere.

(Now, this is not to be confused with the new deadbolts Mr. Kesse had available for Jennifer's condo but did not have time to install.)

And, again, if Jenn went out--and I can't offer a reason that I feel confident with for her doing so--chairs, locks, etc., all become moot points.

But we might as well gather what we can.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elk573 wrote:
Hi- Iím curious where I can view the image of the POI next to the palm tree? I donít think Iíve viewed that before.

I also agree that LE is holding back on evidence. Hopefully if this case is ever deemed a Ďcold case,í theyíll release the rest of what they have.
Try this link, Elk.

I believe it's the 4th comment box down.

http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3033
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9235
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
rd wrote:
I don't think there's any way in the world that the OPD have pictures of the POI walking back in the lane and didn't release them. The bars wouldn't be directly across his face, it would be another perspective for identifying him, judging his height, perspective on his hair/hat, etc.

They were looking, belatedly, for public's help in identifying the POI. How about hey, we have some pictures where the POI's face is obscured by fence rails but we're not going to show pictures where he's farther away from the fence. Just because we like saying he walked away and never looked back.
I'm sure you are correct, RD.

I'm feeling desperate enough to look in cracks which are probably empty.

Before I totally drop the subject, though, I want to remind everyone that it is quite likely that there are 20 seconds of the released video missing. It is the 20 seconds between the image of the POI at the 2nd fence post and the image of the POI beside the palm tree. And I'll never totally agree that there couldn't be more missing. What if he crossed the lane at the palm tree and is hardly visible in the video? What if his face is still obscured by the fence posts? (No-one could say he didn't know about the camera then--but maybe they would want to keep that to themselves).

It's my hope that LE is holding something significant back. If it's not missing portions of the video, then I hope it's what could be revealed by the time of each ping and the location of the towers involved.



rd wrote:
The one bus stop that I recall on Texas was across the street from the entrance, near the entrance into the strip mall. There were also bus stops on corners of Americana and Texas, not that far away.
Do you agree that there are two entrances to the HOTG? Just to confirm.



rd wrote:
I just took a look at Street View and there is also a bus stop at the entrace into HOTG. No sidewalk, just a bench to sit after you walk out the entrance, or cross the street to that bus stop if you're going north on Texas. A sidewalk over there. Was there when I visited HOTG years ago.

Basically the bench bus stops are where people can walk out the apartments at a car entrance and wait for a bus. No sidewalk needed.

A plant is no good if the person planting it is spotted. The whole point is to cast doubt about who in HOTG stole it and parked it there.
The same would apply for a ditching, though. YMMV



rd wrote:
Geez, I tried to drive street view into HOTG and park where the POI parked. It will sit right at the entrance looking at the pool but won't go in. Pretty amazing.
Interesting and thanks for taking a look on street view. I don't have what it takes to run that view anymore.

It sounds like there hasn't been great advances in that area, because I remember back a couple of years ago I could turn off a main drag onto a side street but that would be it--no advancement down the side street.

I miss it, though. If I persist in using it, my computer will place me in something called "lite" mode and it really sucks. All it is basically is street maps.


yeah, I was joking a little. I tried just on the off chance they drove through the apartment complex to another street but they hadn't.

We've all seen the great work you've done on images with what you have. I'm somewhat lucky. I did all my image work with a 90's laptop (same or very similar to one Chandra is using at top of page), with a big glass monitor and a dial up internet over phone line. This was in 2007.

Then stuff bought the farm and I bought a PC in 2008, I insisted on one running Windows XP. Still typing on it right now, no changes since 2008. Somehow Google Street View still works but not much of anything else video wise, which is a plus for me. I'm innoculated against the worse of what passes as modern websites.

I do have a current laptop that I use for viewing videos, Youtube and the like. But this is my main computer.

Yes, there is a second entrance down at the extreme end of the lane POI was walking in. If he had not come around the pool but turned left at the pool and walked to the end of the apartments, there's another exit / entrance to Texas and a bench bus stop there too.

The same would apply for a ditching, though. YMMV

hehe indeed. I would say no. My use of the word ditch versus plant denotes abandoning without care. Plant has a purpose for its location.

I want to remind everyone that it is quite likely that there are 20 seconds of the released video missing. It is the 20 seconds between the image of the POI at the 2nd fence post and the image of the POI beside the palm tree.

I have seen you mention this 20 seconds several times, and I always thought it was supposed to be some missing portion of the end of the video as he walks around the pool toward the gate, and the first still of the gate. But between 2nd still of gate and palm tree?

Both of the stills on each side of the gate show 27 seconds after the hour, and the third still at palm tree shows 28 seconds after the hour, one second later.

I do not believe that is accurate, that he covered that ground in 1 second, but I believe an artifact of the timed delay between takes if you will. The server time stamps these images and I think they got sent close together, maybe because there was movement? I don't know.

What if he crossed the lane at the palm tree and is hardly visible in the video?

You can see the car across the lane. You can see a tree just beyond the car. You can see pretty clearly the grass on the other side of the lane and the brick wall at the entrance from Texas. We'd be able to see him as well as we see the car.

Which I'm ashamed to say I've tried seeing things in the reflection in the car windows.
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
I have seen you mention this 20 seconds several times, and I always thought it was supposed to be some missing portion of the end of the video as he walks around the pool toward the gate, and the first still of the gate. But between 2nd still of gate and palm tree?

Both of the stills on each side of the gate show 27 seconds after the hour, and the third still at palm tree shows 28 seconds after the hour, one second later.

I do not believe that is accurate, that he covered that ground in 1 second, but I believe an artifact of the timed delay between takes if you will. The server time stamps these images and I think they got sent close together, maybe because there was movement? I don't know.
Okay, I still have my stuff on that, and I have it opened right now.

You are correct in that the missing 20 seconds are not where I indicated in my earlier comment.

I show POI exiting the vehicle at the hour, plus 59:45; passing the hot tub at the hour plus 59:53; fronting the pool at the hour; leaving Camera 2 at the hour plus 00:06; ...

Okay--missing time 20 seconds is right here.

... passing far gate (visible at first post) at the hour plus 00:26. (That is not a typo).[/u]

So, while I believe the 20 seconds are missing, those 20 seconds occur between the POI exiting Cam 2 and entering Cam 3. (As he rounds the last corner of the pool to approach the first post).

And if I'm remembering correctly, we disputed a second in an earlier discussion on another forum. :>

But I apologize for the confusion I have created. {Again.} Sorry.

But basically, give or take a second, there are approximately 20 missing seconds.

I'll just dump my notes and quotes in below for anyone that hasn't seen them. (I'm off to work at some ridiculous hour this morning, so I'm kind of rushing. I hope I have everything, but I'll check in later and make any additions needed. I know he explains about the hour time difference in the video stamps but I'm not seeing it below right now. I can find it, though).

Just for quick reference, here is the link for the POI video--or one link anyway.

https://youtu.be/7pnHBqFOstY

_________________________________





Discussion begins at about 16:50 minutes in.

Transcript @ about 18:50 minutes:
Gurd: So, the video starts with the POI driving Jenniferís car into the parking lot behind the pool. They back up; pull back in; wait 32 seconds; and then get out of the car.

Youíll notice that the person exits the car at 11:59:45.

By 11:59:53, the suspect has rounded the corner of the pool and is walking past the hot tub.

By noon on the dot, thatís 12:00:00, theyíre about 1/3 of the way past the pool.

And by 12:00:06, that is 12:00:06, the suspect exits the frame of that camera.

And at 12:00:26, 12:00:26, the suspect finally enters the frame of the next camera and is passing the far gate on the east side of the pool.

So, they go out of a frame at 12:00:06 and come back into a frame at 12:00:26.

Do the simple math and there is 20 seconds of time that the suspect isnít shown. Why? Well, thatís a good question. I have a hard time believing that there wasnít a camera angle that covered the majority of the pool areaóthe angle that is missing.



Transcript @ about 21:08 minutes:
Gurd: And this lead to my second questionóI wanted to know about the time stamps. Would there be separate time stamps on separate cameras that could possibly be out of sync?

And again he told me, in 2006, these cameras would have been connected to a central recorder. They wouldnít have had their own timer or their own time stamps.

This central recorder would have recorded all the time stamps. So, all these different camerasóthey would have used the same timer on the same recorder.

And so, to answer my question: yes, all of those time stampsóthey would have matched up.

This was important, because, if I wanted to compare and analyze the times of these stamps between different cameras, I needed to know that they were all kind of ticking at the same time.

For me this was confirmation that there was a missing 20 seconds of time.

https://audioboom.com/posts/5969730-person-of-interest
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Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
What if he crossed the lane at the palm tree and is hardly visible in the video?
rd wrote:
You can see the car across the lane. You can see a tree just beyond the car. You can see pretty clearly the grass on the other side of the lane and the brick wall at the entrance from Texas. We'd be able to see him as well as we see the car.

Which I'm ashamed to say I've tried seeing things in the reflection in the car windows.
LOL Well, at least no-one can accuse us of not trying.

Yes, I agree that we could see him--but with enough detail to make a difference? (We are a lot smaller than a car, and detail is needed to make an id).

They released the frontal face shot and you're the only one that caught it, RD.

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but I'm just sayin'
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