www.justiceforchandra.com Forum Index www.justiceforchandra.com
Justice for Chandra Levy and missing women
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Jennifer Kesse Disappearance Discussion
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10 ... 33, 34, 35  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    www.justiceforchandra.com Forum Index -> Jennifer Kesse and similar disappearances
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Jenn Reply with quote

myserty64 wrote:
Markybug wrote:
Thats the problem Nancy, why would she go out ? Been on holiday , then back at work , in bed , tired ? What couldn’t wait till the next day ? Or who ?..


I agree Markybug. Why would a security conscious young woman who is tired as well leave her condo on a winter's night at 10 pm.
Okay, mild winters but still winter for those living in that climate.

Having said that never discount the possibility of of a person with predictable traits to do something unpredictable.
This is a true statement, but usually I think of something like buying something impulsively.

But for a person who lived with a premonition of being abducted? To go out alone when she really didn't have to?

I believe she did, only because I can't see any other way around it.

But it had to have been an alarming event; something that there should be evidence of somewhere. Or was at one time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 82
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder about a motive for this crime. There must be a motive.
I have listed four options, others may think of more.

Rape: Then as in many cases the victim has to be killed so they can't identify the perpetrator.

Jilted lover or some ex: If I can't have you then nobody can.

Lust or covet: To borrow a phrase from an unofficial investigator in the Jodi Huisentruit case 'Someone liked what they saw and took what they liked.'

Outright murder: Did someone just want Jennifer dead?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 82
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Jenn Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
Markybug wrote:
Thats the problem Nancy, why would she go out ? Been on holiday , then back at work , in bed , tired ? What couldn’t wait till the next day ? Or who ?..
I still contemplate that maybe she decided to run down to her car to bring the DVD player up; but that would mean a random abduction. I see Jennifer's abduction as planned, so the DVD player trip doesn't really fit for me.

I believe all this: back from holiday, worked all day, in bed, tired. What made her get up? I can't discount it was something to do with the 2nd cell phone, but in my heart of hearts, I don't think so. I think she really did settle that issue in her own mind when she spoke to Travis earlier. Anyway, I'm not even sure there was that much urgency to get the phone back to Travis. I'm not sure I have this correct, but didn't Travis have two phones? Have you ever heard anything like that--one for "work" and one for personal use? Does the story go that Logan's cell phone needed to be charged and he hadn't brought his charger--so Travis let Logan use his work phone. That's how it got left at Jennifer's--just before they left, Logan was having a nap on Jennifer's bed and he set Travis' cell phone on Jennifer's bedside table. When he got up, he forgot to grab the cell phone.

But I think Travis had another cell phone and Jennifer had discussed with him how he could retrieve his messages; so there would have been no urgency to return the work phone.

Is it a "who"? Another knock on her door, only maybe this time the person had brought a key; or used a good ruse to get her to open the door?

The trouble with all these theories is the timing. The phone began pinging almost immediately after her phone call with Rob. We don't have the actual times, but I would be surprised if there is a full 20 minutes between the two events.

And did they deliberately wait until after she had spoken to Rob?


This is a real conundrum isn't it. Did she get up or didn't she? Is Jennifer even in Orlando?
LE has missed something here or misinterpreted evidence.
It has been accepted that the fuel gauge in her car registered 'about the right amount of fuel' had been used for the driving she did.' Obviously there is no evidence of her car being refuelled anywhere. Even a relatively small amount of gas. Is there a possibility a Jerry can or whatever you call them was used. This equals no evidence and more confusion.

BTW Nancy thanks for images you posted of Jennifer on holiday and her purses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 82
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coincidences:

These have been known forever but they might be elephants in the room.

Jennifer is on a short vacation with her boyfriend.

That same weekend four young men stayed in her condo. We all know who was there. What did certain people see? This was Jennifer's home with her valuables, mementos and photographs.

I don't know who held the condo keys but I assume they were kept safe and not left laying around. Well inside thirty six hours of this weekend Jennifer had vanished off the face of the earth.

I headed this post 'coincidences'. LE don't believe in coincidences.

Maybe there is a clue here and maybe there isn't.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

four young men?

I know Logan, Travis, Matt, who is 4th?

In the beginninig it was several people, as time goes by there are attempts to make it just two.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Markybug



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 92
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also the fact she hadn’t stayed there that long ? And she stayed alternating weekends at robs ? I think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 82
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RD, you are most likely correct in that just three people staying at the condo. and you are also correct about early reports suggesting 'several' as below:

Jennifer's family now confirms her younger brother Logan had stayed at her condo with several of his friends while she was on vacation the weekend before she vanished. Police have had that information from the beginning.

Did some people visit these friends over the weekend? I don't know the answer to that.

The bottom line is people did stay in her condo while she was absent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

myserty64 wrote:
I'd like to revisit Bo the bloodhound. (long deceased by now)
I finally got this comment located and have my response ready--with apologies for my lateness.

myserty64 wrote:
Just what happened here?
My understanding is he tracked someone from HTOG back to Mosaic Condos.
I notice your careful wording here. I agree, that's about all we can say for a certainty.

Here is a link to an old article from the Orlando Sentinel which stills opens for me. Many of the points in it are off topic to our particular discussion on Bo, but the complete write-up is interesting.

Below is one tiny quote from it concerning Bo and confirms you are correct.

Snipped:
The mystery of her disappearance grew within an hour of the car's recovery at 8:10 a.m. not far from Kesse's residence. Orange County sheriff's bloodhound Bo took a sniff of the driver's seat and pulled handler Sgt. Jeff Brown at a loping pace for a mile.

The scent led straight to the front door of Kesse's home in Mosaic at Millenia, an upscale, gated and fenced condominium complex with 24-hour security on Americana Boulevard.

The trail bypassed the complex's only entrance and led to a stretch of fence separating the public sidewalk from its private grounds. Once the 6-year-old bloodhound entered the grounds, the dog picked up the scent inside the fence and went directly to a staircase leading to Kesse's second-floor condominium.

Orlando police homicide detectives would not speculate on who abandoned Kesse's Chevrolet Malibu near the intersection of Americana and Texas Avenue and then walked or ran back to her home.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2006-01-27/news/MISSINGWOMAN27_1_kesse-condominium-central-florida



myserty64 wrote:
But where did he go once he got near the Mosaic complex?
Sometimes I find a picture can explain things best, although I'll add a direct quote from Mrs. Kesse, given in 2017. I find it interesting to note that all you "original" posters from 2006 had the location correct.

Anyway, first my Google Map screenshot with locations added. I did this awhile back and I should maybe give it a new look, but it's accuracy holds as far as the information we have.




@ about 30:44 minutes in:
Mrs. Kesse: I was mistaken and Drew had thought when he listened to your podcast—he corrected me. But, and then he looked back in the notes we kept. I told you we kept our own timeline of things.

The actual dog tracked to the bottom step of the staircase. Jennifer lived on the second floor of a condo building that was open air hallways. The back stairwell was to parking spots—to her parking spot.

The front stairwell overlooked the water.

The dog tracked back to the bottom of the steps at the water—at the, you know, steps that overlooked the pond. She overlooked a pond. So, just to clarify it.

Gurd: And those steps led up to the second floor, though?

Mrs. Kesse: Yes. It led up to the second floor. So I was mistaken when I said it went to her parking spot. I thought it went to the parking spot and sat. But it went to the steps—you know, the bottom of the staircase and the dog stayed. So I just wanted to clarify that for you.

https://audioboom.com/posts/5969730-person-of-interest



myserty64 wrote:
Did he go through the hole in the side fence?
Yes, I think so--if we believe the statement in the third paragraph of the link above from the Orlando Sentinel.

Here is a picture from someone's open Photobucket account, showing where the fence was broken. It doesn't seem like much of a break--I think it would be a tight squeeze, but maybe if the picture was shot from a different angle, I would have a different opinion.

I went into full zoom on Google Maps and used a larger version of this picture to mark the location on my map above. (It may not be 100% accurate, but I believe I'm close).




myserty64 wrote:
Did he stop where Jennifer's car parking spot. Wasn't that 2226?
No, I don't believe Bo stopped at Jenn's car spot. That was all false information put out after-the-fact by both law enforcement and the Kesse's. There are many quotes from both sides saying it was here; it was there; but it seems it was reported correctly at the very beginning.

Yes, it was 2226. The numbers were actually stenciled in white paint on the cement, so anyone who would have known Jennifer's condo number would not have had any trouble finding her parking space.



myserty64 wrote:
Having been a dog owner for many years (my current one is a Gordon Setter. A stunning looking dog even if I say so myself)
Scottish breed Markybug. :-)
I tell you this; it is very hard to hide an object from a dog once they have smelled it.

I have never understood why Bo's tracking never seemed to be taken seriously.

Read this about a dogs sense of smell. It does vary from breed to breed. I assume bloodhounds are very good. We don't have them here.

When dogs smell something they are not just registering a smell, they get an entire story. They can smell pheromone, which is not only found in the urine and fecal, but on the skin and fur. From this they can tell a lot about another dog or human including if they are male or female, what they ate, where they have been, what they have touched

If only Bo could have talked.
I take it serious. I believe the problem of understanding rests with the humans. And then when we can't figure it out, we blame the dog for being lazy or distracted. They give us more than we deserve and still we ask for more. Shame on humans.

But now, if you'll stay with me for a while longer, I'm going to post some Google Map screenshots I did showing where it's rumored Bo's path may have varied from the POI's known path.

Because I highly respect the ability of all tracking dogs, I keep going back to this wondering what it could indicate.

In this one, I tried to show the whole path of both Bo, using red arrows; and the POI, using yellow arrows. (The yellow arrows indicate the known path of the POI from the surveillance video).




I did a blow-up of the pool area, also. What could Bo be trying to tell us by "tracking" the POI out to the turn in from the highway? Someone suggested to me once that it may have been due to the chlorine used in the pool. Maybe, but if she would have lost the scent there--and we know he didn't jump in the pool or anything like that--how would she have picked it up again? I think she would have "sat" at the pool indicating the scent stopped there.

I suppose it's too bizarre to contemplate that the POI only walked to the palm tree to look back at Jennifer's vehicle, then may have retraced the walk in front of the pool back to Huntington on the Green Court, eventually making a right onto South Texas Avenue. Bo should have indicated the "double" area, though; and it would mean more video should have been available.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NapQueen



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy - I've only had a chance to briefly glance at this post but it looks amazing! I can't wait to examine it in detail later tonight.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Markybug



Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Posts: 92
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The break in the fence would be quite a “local/resident “ knowledge thing?

So would that suggest more the involvement of the painter or other worker?

Great pics btw !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
myserty64



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 82
Location: Gold Coast QLD Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't thank you enough for the detailed reply to my 'pondering s' on Bo Nancy.
It is true that pictures are worth a thousand words.

There is much to think about too.

As an early impression I feel the red lines (Bo) indicate LE are possibly holding back video of the POI changing direction after that shot of him/her turning back to look at Jennifer's car. I trust that doesn't sound confusing.

To put it another way; the POI stopped, looked back at the car and then decided, for reasons unknown, to backtrack and use the exit onto South Texas Ave.
Bo could have followed that double back too but it hasn't been disclosed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Markybug wrote:
The break in the fence would be quite a “local/resident “ knowledge thing?

So would that suggest more the involvement of the painter or other worker?

Great pics btw !
Yep, the rumor goes that it was a "back way in" that would not be known to anyone except those living or working in the complex.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

myserty64 wrote:
I can't thank you enough for the detailed reply to my 'pondering s' on Bo Nancy.
It is true that pictures are worth a thousand words.

There is much to think about too.

As an early impression I feel the red lines (Bo) indicate LE are possibly holding back video of the POI changing direction after that shot of him/her turning back to look at Jennifer's car. I trust that doesn't sound confusing.

To put it another way; the POI stopped, looked back at the car and then decided, for reasons unknown, to backtrack and use the exit onto South Texas Ave.
Bo could have followed that double back too but it hasn't been disclosed.
Yes, thank you, Mystery. My efforts weren't in vain. :)

I may say that I think he intended all along to walk as far as the palm tree only to look back at Jennifer's vehicle and then go to the turn in and return to Mosiac via the sidewalk.

Remember how careful he was in the video to get Jenn's vehicle parked straight and centered in the parking space? And then he goes to the palm tree to appraise it again? It's all so odd.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nancy



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
The image clips are excellent. Thanks for that.

BBM - I think the head would not protrude beyond that post from that angle. I also will add that his arms are not seen and probable in front of him perhaps holding something as far as blockage of light goes.
Okay, thanks. That was something I've been wondering about.

And, yes, that's really strange about his arms; and that "thing" that looks like an arm in a short sleeved shirt hanging in back.

Strange, convoluted, frustrating--all of the above.


rd wrote:
BBM - This is the direct route to the corner of Americana and Texas, a direct exit from HOTG, and least chance of encounter with residents, employees, and apartment management. Walking up the sidewalk between the buildings would maximize that for example.
I'm not sure if it would be more direct than continuing on Huntington Green Court to Texas Avenue, and straight down the sidewalk to Americana Blvd. (As the dog tracked, actually).

And I can't understand why people weren't around the pool at high noon. Could it have been because of the "winter" weather? (Sorry, but I ask that in all seriousness as I'm from a much colder climate. No-one would use an outdoor pool in January in my corner of the world, I assure you. However, with the beautiful weather in Florida, I think they would; but is that not correct?)

Thus the confusion above leaves me unsure as to whether or not it would be reasonable for him to assume that he would have a higher chance of being seen by someone if he took the path instead of walking in front of the pool, or even straight to the corner of Huntington Green Court and South Texas Avenue.


rd wrote:
On the other hand, had POI known about the surveillance cameras, he could have parked where he did knowing that surveillance camera 3 let us say aimed directly at that spot was not functioning, but probably would have walked the sidewalk instead of swinging around the pool in sight of the surveillance cameras. It is only through extreme luck that he doesn't have closeups in image 1 amd image 2.
Do you ever think that with the quality of the cameras, we would not be any further ahead if his side face profile was visible? Look at all the debate about the helmet; wait, the hat; wait, the man bun; wait, it's a woman. OMG On it goes.

We have a face view; wait, it's a growth on the tree; wait, he strolled away never looking back.

(I'm not even going to touch the debate about his arm and his physical body characteristics, etc, etc).

So, if he had any knowledge of the HOG and the condition of those cameras; he may have been willing to take the low risk involved to fulfill his need to taunt.



rd wrote:
I say probably in that I don't know what other surveillance cameras there were. If there were other surveillance cameras he might have turned right coming in the gate and parked down the lane, crossing over texas down there, and walking down other side of street in the parking lot, etc.
That's another thing, too. We don't know if he turned off Texas Avenue by making a left turn or a right turn--the camera first picks him up driving Jennifer's vehicle almost at the corner of Huntington Green Court and Texas Avenue but he is solidly straight on the court. It does appear that he took that entrance into the HOG, not the one above, though.

But, seriously, isn't that luck, too? How much luck can one person have?



rd wrote:
Bottom line is he clearly doesn't know he is being surveilled. Which is ironic because that's what he checking for behind the tree but checking if a person has noticed him.
I find this is not such a clear bottom line for me. He took all the time he need to straighten and center the vehicle in the parking spot; he did something inside the vehicle for 32 seconds. If the statement is true that the only known fingerprints inside the vehicle were Jennifer's, that means he wasn't wiping the interior. He may have wore gloves--but he even took her keys. Why not leave them in the vehicle?

Could he have walked to the palm tree specifically to turn and look back? How many spots would offer that line of vision? Maybe he knew just where to go for that exact line of vision.

Could he have sent someone a signal by his earlier actions and was looking back to see if it was acknowledged?

Could he have simply wanted a moment to admire his cleverness in abandoning Jennifer Kesse's vehicle in a crime and drug riddled neighborhood--realizing the extra pain it would cause Jennifer's parents?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy wrote:
myserty64 wrote:
I can't thank you enough for the detailed reply to my 'pondering s' on Bo Nancy.
It is true that pictures are worth a thousand words.

There is much to think about too.

As an early impression I feel the red lines (Bo) indicate LE are possibly holding back video of the POI changing direction after that shot of him/her turning back to look at Jennifer's car. I trust that doesn't sound confusing.

To put it another way; the POI stopped, looked back at the car and then decided, for reasons unknown, to backtrack and use the exit onto South Texas Ave.
Bo could have followed that double back too but it hasn't been disclosed.
Yes, thank you, Mystery. My efforts weren't in vain. :)

I may say that I think he intended all along to walk as far as the palm tree only to look back at Jennifer's vehicle and then go to the turn in and return to Mosiac via the sidewalk.

Remember how careful he was in the video to get Jenn's vehicle parked straight and centered in the parking space? And then he goes to the palm tree to appraise it again? It's all so odd.


Yes, a fantastic presentation, Nancy. This is so helpful to everyone trying to understand Jennifer's disappearance.

A couple of notes. As you mentioned in your presentation, POI would be in the pool gate surveillance again if he backtracked. So he didn't backtrack.

In addition, one would consider purpose of walking out the car entrance. There is no sidewalk there. One could walk in grass or the Texas turn lane down to Americana, but that's actually what is accomplished by walking down the HOTG lane by the pool. It goes to the front where there is a sidewalk along Americana. In other words, it is a natural walking lane to get to the corner. It is not out of the way, it is the way.

With the backing up and pulling in again, I submit that it is difficult to take a strange car and turn in straight into a parking spot. Actually very difficult. The turn radius varies so much. I have a similar year car (2004), and after all these years I still don't swing it right sometimes to pull in straight.

If you don't pull in straight you are across a couple of parking spaces and the car would draw a lot of attention. It's not an option to back up and pull in straight unless you are on the run and ditching the car and don't care. If he was doing that, he could have ditched it across the street in the strip mall parking lot. Plenty of room over there. He wasn't ditching it, he was planting it.

And I don't think there is any doubt that he was looking back to see if indeed he had been noticed and was being watched. I'm not sure what he would have done had that been the case, but I believe he would have moved the car and tried again where he wasn't observed as the person parking the car. Just my opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    www.justiceforchandra.com Forum Index -> Jennifer Kesse and similar disappearances All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10 ... 33, 34, 35  Next
Page 9 of 35

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group