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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3280

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: The recovery site Reply with quote

What does the recovery site tell us (now that we have new info)?
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 1272
Location: Northern Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tennis shoes/sneakers being untied tells me that they were likely part of the 'bundle' that was scattered about on the slope/cliff-side. IOW, it supports that she was moved from a different location with her clothing perhaps in a bag for staging.


RE: the hair found in the leggings:

http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html



RIGOR MORTIS AND OTHER POSTMORTEM CHANGES

Excerpt:

After three to four weeks, the hair, nails, and teeth loosen

end excerpt

http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question97580.html

Excerpt: re: decomposition of hair

On average the process takes about a year.

***


The rate of decomposition depends on the volume of hair, temperature and humidity, and the presence of keratin-eating bacteria

end excerpt

More here:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Pathology-1640/presence-hair-death.htm


ls
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Skipper - I've been thinking about the hair, too. And there are aspects I wish I could figure out.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=2120450
excerpt:
    ....Sonenberg alluded to information from a DNA forensic expert, who testified that analysts found decomposed hair inside Levy's running tights. Decomposed hair only comes off body after the person is killed, which could indicate Levy's clothes were taken off her body after she was killed....


I was wondering where the hair was found. When it says inside - well, the tights were inside out. I'm not trying to be silly - I really am confused.

Also, reading what you posted above, Skipper, in my mind there are now two kinds of decomposed hair. I mean, if you look at this ratty (comfortable and cozy) jacket I have, there is hair all over it, even though I try to remove the hair constantly. If I died today (without the jacket on) and someone looked at it in a year, it wouldn't look any different than it does today (unless my husband or his new clean-freak wife burned it, which is likely!) (That new wife is only a product of my imagination - so far!)

But if I were curled up in the La Z Boy watching Nancy Grace looping over and over and died of boredom and frustration and my corpse sat there for - I don't think it would have to very long - and a hair fell from my dead scalp onto my jacket, that hair would have a ring around it near the root.

Then there is the hair that remains with the decaying corpse that goes through more changes. I really am confused.
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
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Location: Northern Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like you, I read about the root of the hair or the 'hair bulb' which is lighter than the hair shaft and softer in texture, is a part of the hair fall-out when a person dies.

Think it was the Caylee case?

Likely that hairs on your sweater would be sans bulbs Jane.

My guess is that the tights were turned inside out to create or stage the scene as you suggest. Only problem is that they somehow caught a clump of hair in the process. Likely went unnoticed. Must have been a man...

So if that decomposed hair did have the 'bulbs' then that would explain a lot.

So you say your COD was Nancy Grace on a continous loop? That would do it! lol



ls
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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Location: THE LEFT COAST

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:33 am    Post subject: Chandge of Clothes Reply with quote

Hi Jane and Skipper!
I think that Chandra could have been wearing something completely different and that the leggings etc. were used for transportation, like Rd said, and staging.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an informative reference (from a different case) to post-mortem root banding: http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Dennis_Halstead.php
excerpt:
    ....The expert concluded, based on 20 years of research and expertise, that the hairs displayed “post-mortem root banding,” a hallmark of decomposition that only occurs while hairs are attached to a corpse that has been dead for at least 8 hours, if not days or weeks....

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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link to a detailed page about hair. If you scroll 'way down (figure 81) there's an image of a hair with post mortem banding. http://www2.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/jan2004/research/2004_01_research01b.htm
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laskipper



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a video of the Recovery Scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tWzIx8aWcU&feature=related

Someone should inform Sari Horwitz that keeps mentioning Chandra's Sony Walkman-
that Chandra did not have a Sony Walkman.

Details, details...

They have no clue, do they?
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Skipper. I know - Michael Doyle is pretty accurate, but other than him... I hope rd has a look at that video.

I thought it was pretty misleading for Horwitz to say Chandra's body lay where the skull was found - wasn't the skull found further downhill than the spine?
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Rainbow



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Crime Scene Staging of a Robbery Reply with quote

I asked myself the question: Why would the Bauder Cold Case Institute, along with the prosecution, refrain from mentioning that a Frank Sinatra tape was found at the scene (if it indeed was found there)?

The answer I gave myself is that in order to determine if a robbery scene is staged an investigator should ask him/herself "Who knew about the existence of these items?".

This is just another example of an attempt of amateur investigators playing into the hands of those who have committed a cover-up by attempting to make the "crime" fit the evidence, instead of following the evidence to determine the crime.

Except below from Criminal profiling: introduction to behavioral analysis
by Brent Turvey
Page 250

http://books.google.com/books?id=Oge7LFaN5xYC&lpg=PA242&ots=h-_aQwQ7S4&dq=dr.%20hans%20gross-crime%20scene%20staging&pg=PA250#v=onepage&q&f=false
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi Rainbow, I spoke to the Bauder Cold Case Institute when they were investigating Chandra's case. A fine group of educators and students. I had a thread on it and couldn't find it. It was in Latest News for a couple of years anyway. Son of a gun if it wasn't misfiled in archives. Don't know when that happened. :)

I will bump it and move to Latest News.

rd
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:14 pm    Post subject: Student Investigators Reply with quote

Thank you, Rd. The head of the institute told me on the phone that you had lectured and/or conducted some seminars at Bauder College and that you had done a fabulous job. Everyone learned a lot and thought you were great! She also told me at the time that the students weren't going with your theory, but another one and that Susan Levy had also participated in their coming to that conclusion.

When the opinions of college students, who did not participate in the original investigation of the crime, are given more weight than the testimony of someone like D.C. career homicide detectives that were on the case from the beginning, Jim Robinson and Anne-Marie Smith, who were completely immersed in the investigation, or someone like yourself, who has been thoroughly analyzing the case since the beginning, then I know that whatever conclusion they came to was their version of "barking up the wrong tree".
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rd



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, it was the conclusion the DC police and prosecutors wanted to hear. The same reason the jury came to the same decision. It just seems so obvious if you don't know anything about Chandra and the site, which neither group did.

I told them it was important to take a close look at Guandique because they needed to understand that theory. Unfortunately time ran out and they didn't get to make a field trip to Washington and examine the area. I would have assisted if they could have.

I took a look at the video of Higham and Horwitz. You can see how steep the hill is. You can also see there are no bushes. And they don't show what it is to walk back in there, or how one would get there to start with.

It is so far removed from Beach Drive and jogging trails that it's criminal what these DC reporters and police and prosecutors have done. If anyone has committed a crime against the public, it is that bunch.

But I provided as much information in my talk about Guandique as Condit. It was an evenhanded presentation of the facts, but people just can't understand, or find it hard to believe, that this innocent explanation is so outlandish unless they were to try to recreate it.

None of them, Higham and Horwitz included, could even try and present that to the public. They just go to where Chandra was hidden and say she left her previous life and the minute she entered this new life she ended up in Rock Creek Park dead.

The students would have understood if we had walked through Chandra's last days, getting into their heads exactly what she was doing, what she was communicating and doing on her computer, and then recreated this journey to death and this crime as would have been done by Guandique, including the knotted tights scenario, passing by his other two assaults on the way.

It would take quite awhile, it's a big journey, and so of course no one has ever done so to understand what they believe happened.

No one has the time to understand what they believe.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what gets me about those dingy Washington Post reporters is that they drove up there like Condit did.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

rd
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm concerned, Horwitz and Higham had a job to do, and they did it: Get the public ready for Guandique's conviction for the murder of Chandra Levy.
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