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Guandique trial goes to jury
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like in many cases the jury goes out to the scene Jane. It is not rare at all anymore. Way back to OJ's case they were doing it.

Goz
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 1272
Location: Northern Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe in the case I posted above/below, the Jury Foreman should have asked permission of the Court before going to the crime scene ? Also the entire Jury should have been present. Other than that, I can not see why it would be a problem, although as you say Jane, in the cases that I'm reading about the field trips- most are during the course of the trial.

Could be a case of the Judges' discretion?

ls


http://tinyurl.com/2fhoorg


Fair use excerpt:

People v. Collins,
813 N.E.2d 285 (Ill. App. 2004)

In homicide case, the prosecution failed to rebut the presumption of prejudice that arose from the jury foremanís visit to the crime scene, which the juror testified was done in order to better understand the testimony of various witnesses. The prosecutionís contention that the crime scene visit was cumulative of photographs that were admitted at trial was unpersuasive given that the juror testified that the photographs that had been available during the trial had been inadequate and the ones that were available during deliberations came too late.
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:20 am    Post subject: Familiarity Breeds Contempt Reply with quote

I thought that the jury would already be familiar with RCP, since they are locals, I assume.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But familiar how?

I'm putting a link here to a post rd made awhile ago (which I'm going to reread, myself. In fact, I'm going to try to draw a sort of map from it to try to understand it better).
http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=34354&highlight=picture#34354
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skipper said
Quote:
I believe in the case I posted above/below, the Jury Foreman should have asked permission of the Court before going to the crime scene ? Also the entire Jury should have been present.

This is from the instructions given to the Guandique jury:
    Instruction 1.202 PUBLICITY AND USE OF THE INTERNET

    ....In addition, you may not conduct any independent investigation during deliberations. This means you may not conduct any research in person or electronically via the internet or in another way.
http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-justice/2010/11/chandra-levy-verdict-read-the-jury-instructions-verdict-form-4796.html
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 1272
Location: Northern Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morning Rainbow and all,

In answer to your comment about Jury familiarity of Rock Creek Park:

In my area we have the Metroparks which is a part of what is called the Emerald Necklace in Ohio.

This area is much like Rock Creek Park in many ways. There are many picnic areas, nature trails, jogging/biking trails, horse trails and even areas for sledding and a Chalet with a Toboggan Chute.

People gravitate towards the common areas for picnics or bike riding. Lots of daily dog walkers and joggers or people just walking.

There are also areas that are unique and not commonly visited. For instance, an area with a steep cliff off of a path that leads to caves. Not a place for anyone over 20, IMO. I know about the
visitor frequency of these areas because I pass by the areas daily.

In our area, we do not have the high crime statistics as they do in Washington DC, but even so, the
areas with the steep cliffs and/or ravines are not as popular for obvious reasons.

I would venture a guess that most people that do frequent the park system in my area, are not even aware that there are paths that lead to cliffs in some areas of the park. They are only aware of the
popular sites. I would have to believe that the same would hold true in DC.

So to say that people are familiar with Rock Creek Park could mean only that they are familiar with the roads that they may drive through in the park or the picnic or bike/jogging trails that they may
use or be aware of.

ls
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skipper sums it up nicely, and jane is right on. That was precisely my point in that post.

The problem is exactly as I have warned from the beginning, that the prosecution would blur Rock Creek Park, a nice day in a park, Guandique's assaults, and Chandra's remains site all together, because people are "familiar" with parks, jogging, and what they know of Rock Creek Park.

It is criminal for the jury not to experience first hand what the DC police and prosecutors claim. There is no way they can intelligently assess the claims until they've been there and done that.

They should have been standing on the No Horses path when listening to the "and Guandique grabbed her by the neck and dragged her off the path" assault description. You have to walk up there from Beach and Broad Branch and then be directed out the No Horses path and go, oh yeah, Chandra did this and Guandique was waiting out here for her to understand.

Yeah, they would believe that. If they were federal prisoners and you told them you would give them six years off their remaining six year sentence if they said they would believe it.

rd
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: The Lay of the Land Reply with quote

I live on the other side of the country, but have been in the Rock Creek Park area a couple of times. Even I understand what you have been driving at Rd all of these years, so I would think that jurors would as well. That's all.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sure hope so, Rainbow.
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Rainbow



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do any of you know if the jury received the tracking dog evidence?

Also, the defense mentioned something about Chandra's shoes, something to the effect that they were not in the position they would have been in, if Chandra had been jogging. Does anyone have any more info on this?
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no, I'm wondering what is meant by that, Rainbow.

DC police said at time that shoes were not shoes made for running.

Of course, depending on what's most convenient at time, they have Chandra "nice day for a walk in the park" versus Chandra jogging, so logic makes no difference to these DC prosecutors.

rd
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Why were Chandra's shoes untied? Reply with quote

Quote:
Then, Sonenberg pointed to Levy's sneakers, which were found at the crime scene with the laces untied.

"That doesn't make any sense," Sonenberg said.



http://www.wtop.com/?sid=2120450&nid=596
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9240
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, I didn't see that article. The closing argument from Sonenberg was much more powerful than the references to what she was talking about indicated.

And yes, she's right. The untied shoelaces (new information to me) and the decomposed hair in her tights that came off after death (new information to me) and the laptop on but not plugged in on May 9 (new information to me) and the landlord notices of May 1 and May 2 inside her apartment and moved (new information to me) all tell of a staged murder scene in Rock Creek Park.

How anyone cannot see that given the information is beyond me. Problem is, for reasons we fully understand, the public wasn't given the information.

rd
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Rainbow



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Hard Proof Reply with quote

I agree, RD. These are very, very powerful arguments. This also explains the main reason the hair "got lost".

The computer being powered on is astounding and

the announcements under the door. . .
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and not only powered on, but unsaid or unreported in the article, obliterated. No longer working.

And the note about a cerebral hemorrhage on the kitchen counter? What would Chandra be doing doing research about cerebral hemorrhage just before she disappears?

And whose handwriting is it anyway?

Handwritten note re cerebral hemorrhage and cardiac arrest

rd
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