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Robert Levy testifies against Guandique
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sigsky



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I am right, didn't they find the sunglasses and some other stuff near the horse trail? Thus the beginning of the 180 foot trail? Check the Horowitz Higham book, I'm pretty sure it's in there. The sunglasses are hard to explain unless you want to assume the scene was staged. Something I would not rule out.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After Robert Levy suggesting that jogging in Rock Creek Park is, after all, something would do, I do hope the defense ascertained while the gym manager was on the stand that Chandra could still use the gym in May and beyond even though she went to cancel it the evening before - the time already paid for, which stretched into the future a few weeks or months, was uncancelable.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sigsky, I can't do this justice in the short time I have at the moment, but I'll get an answer started. I mention the sunglasses information in chapter Found. The difference between Murder on a Horse Trail and Finding Chandra is that I present the information with questions, while they are happy talk mouthpuppets for the DC police and prosecutors.

from chapter Found:

Her broken sunglasses were found near the trail, her Walkman farther downhill. Unlikely as it was for Chandra to be here, it was a murder on a horse trail. Was she really on a suicidal death march on a horse trail deep in a forest, without her cell phone to call for help, without her wallet or even her pepper spray she always carried, or was the death scene staged to look that way?

Here's a map of that site high up on Ridge Road, a half mile from Beach Drive.



The exact details have never been released by police and reported in the press, and the DC police and prosecutors are using that inside information to keep the public ignorant as they go about their political agenda, but from what little has been reported her sunglasses were somewhere around where the foot trail coming uphill at X3 gets to the top on the narrow slanted No Horses path that goes around the summit from grove 18 toward Grant Road and on around the peak to grove 16, both little picnic table areas on the side of lonely and narrow Ridge Road running through the park, from Broad Branch and Beach to Military Road I believe.

This is what is significant. The sunglasses were well further in that where you drop downhill 283 feet through trees to Chandra's remains, from X2 down to X1. The staging implies she was traversing the path toward Ridge Road, losing her sunglasses and then several yards further toward Ridge Road, as if running to escape, etc., is seen to have been overcome and dragged down the hill.

Of course the side of the hill is so steep that a sexual assault on Chandra there, much less being bound with her clothes in the process, is pure silliness. Nevertheless, that's what our erudite US Attorneys and DC police will have you think.

This is the reason that initial accounts were of Chandra coming up from Broad Branch Road to meet this staged fate, due to the placement of the sunglasses, which, of course, is why they were placed where they were. A murderer dumping her body would not want it to look like she was brought in from Ridge Road where he parked his car.

To see more of my analysis of this alleged scenario of Chandra traipsing down Broad Branch Road, as I attempted and opened Murder on a Horse Trail with, and then, oh how does the prosecutor put it, climbing up rocks on a gloriously beautiful day, a day you can't see in that forest by the way, read chapter Horse Trail.

It should be required reading for the jurors but instead defense lawyers will have to pantomine like the prosecutor did.

rd
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sigsky



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the question was where did the reference to the grisly 180 foot trail of evidence originate. Actually it is in the affidavit to Guandique's arrest and is described as the distance between the trail where the sunglasses, headphones and walkman were found, and Chandra's remains. Obviously I can't verify the facts but I feel certain that law enforcement at least knows where the sunglasses were found. Are we sure they were Chandra's?
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be her remains spread out, or the distance from sunglasses away fromv x2 where you drop down 238 feet to remains. If the sunglasses are involved in this trail of evidence, then it is distance from sunglasses found above x3 to x2, presumably a 180 foot chase after knocking her sunglasses.

I wish everyone could go and picture that, it's too funny to describe. You would say guandique was back here? Chandra was back here? What kind of drugs are these cops on?

You have to see it to disbelieve it.

rd
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: DC Police John Allie, Michael Miller testimony Reply with quote

I'm posting this here, since we are talking about remains and evidence found in the same vicinity.
http://blogs.mcclatchydc.com/law/
excerpt from McClatchy News:
    The courtroom hushed when the policeman held up the soiled shirt....
    ...."SC Trojan," Metropolitan Police Department evidence technician John Allie said, reading the label. "Size, small."....

    ....Allie was the lead evidence technician in charge May 22, 2002....

    ....Allie recalled searching down a steep slope off of Rock Creek Park's Western Ridge Trail, several hundred feet from a place called Grove 17. The first items found were sunglasses and the broken earpiece from a pair of sunglasses.

    "You didn't have to go too far to get to them, just a step or two" from the trail, Allie said.

    A little farther down the slope, Allie recalled finding an Aiwa radio cassette player. Then the slope got markedly steeper, at at the bottom of which was the major location of remains....

    ...."You didn't map a vibrator?" defense attorney Santha Sonenberg asked another officer, Detective Michael Miller.

    "I did," Miller said, but "I actually called it a dildo."

    And then, there was the evidence.

    "This is a tooth here, in the center of the photograph," Allie said at one point.

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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:20 pm    Post subject: DC Police detective Michael Miller testimony Reply with quote

http://blogs.mcclatchydc.com/law/2010/10/chandra-levy-murder-trial-1028-mapping-the-horror.html
excerpt from McClatchy News:
    ....A Metropolitan Police Department detective, Michael Miller, detailed how he used lasers, prisms, rebar and other tools to map the remains....

    ....Then: a realization, as Assistant U.S. Attorney Amanda Haines carries a large crime scene diagram prepared by Detective Miller. It's only a passing sight, as Haines does not draw attention to the individual finds, but the quick flash drives the words home.

    "Sacrum," one label says. "Bones," another label says. "Skull." Lipstick." "Ear piece."

    That's Chandra on the map.

    In the audience, as she has been all week, Chandra's mother sat and said not a word.

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lector



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sigsky wrote:
I think the question was where did the reference to the grisly 180 foot trail of evidence originate. Actually it is in the affidavit to Guandique's arrest and is described as the distance between the trail where the sunglasses, headphones and walkman were found, and Chandra's remains. Obviously I can't verify the facts but I feel certain that law enforcement at least knows where the sunglasses were found. Are we sure they were Chandra's?

Thinking about it further, I was actually trying to question the use of the phrase "Trail of evidence", particularly the word "trail", & the phrase "leading to", in this context. To me that all conjures up a very different image from what was actually found.

"Grisly" is clearly newspaper-ese, I think. Did the rest of the phrasing come from the newspaper, or straight from the affadavit?

I think we're just dealing with sloppy (intentionallly?) reporting, which plagues so much news coverage these days, but who knows.
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Remains of the Day Reply with quote

. . . and was a "Frank Sinatra" cassette tape found, as well?
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sigsky



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi lector,

The affidavit does not use "trail of evidence" nor does it use grisly which I thought would avoid confusion with other trails in RCP and came from the news article that you quoted. The 180 feet is there which makes it clear to me that the affidavit is the source for the description. I suspect it originates from the Horowitz - Highman book but I checked it out of the library so no longer have access to it.

Your point is well taken. Although I have seen no detailed police layouts of the discovery scene, my mind sees a few items near the horse trail and Chandra's remains 180 feet away. Hardly a trail.

I'm surprised a detailed layout of the site is not part of the prosecution's case. Or maybe even the defense's.
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lector



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks sigsky, that clarifies things nicely.

Good point about a visual layout. If the defense doesn't introduce one, they're missing an opportunity.
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Missing Pieces to the Puzzle Reply with quote

They also need to point out the "evidence" the police missed, e.g a leg bone that was found by Joe McCann, one of the Levy investigators.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The leg bone found by good work by Chandra family investigators after the DC police were done is part of what I could attribute to bones spread around for yards around the hillside. But with some mention of her sunglasses the 180 feet can't be referring to the widespread area of her remains.

I have a map of the area above but not doing a very good job separating the sunglasses from the remains here. Let me put it another way.

The distance from the sunglasses to the remains is well over 180 feet. It is 238 feet to the path above from her remains.

In addition, the sunglasses were not a couple of feet off the path directly above Chandra's remains. The sunglasses were a nontrivial distance further in on the path away from Ridge Road and grove 18. I cannot emphasize that enough.

They were further away from the x2 spot on the path above Chandra's remains substantially enough for the police and early discussion in interviews to investigate from Broad Branch Road below, far far below and over to Grant Road and Broad Branch, to discuss Chandra coming up from Broad Branch, to even in last DC police statements referring to Chandra being attacked, having her sunglasses knocked off, but then struggling for a distance before being pulled downhill at x2, where she would be pulled 238 feet downhill to where her remains were found.

Given how close the spot above Chandra at x2 is to Ridge Road and the picnic table 18 where you pull up and park, either officially across the road or unofficially in past the picnic table up to the bushes and trees along the narrow dirt Western Ridge horse trail, this is a significant achievement by the murderer.

This is like leaving a body in from the front entrance of a park but tossing their sunglasses closer to another entrance and the police ending up concluding the victim walked in the side entrance and was attacked, losing her sunglasses, before making her way toward the front entrance before succumbing to the attacker and being murdered.

Let's further say that the front entrance is a gate where you drive in but the side entrance is a walk pathway with no cars. With the sunglasses near the side entrance, talk is of the victim walking into the park and being attacked by someone lurking there. No one is talking of driving in the front gate and dumping the victim's body because the sunglasses were found further in toward the side gate.

Do you see what the point is in taking her sunglasses further down the path and tossing them next to the path is? No talk of bringing her body in a short distance from a car and dragging her body downhill to hide it, only talk of Chandra walking on Broad Branch Road (seriously) and walking up the hill from Broad Branch (seriously) and Guandique waiting on that path above (seriously) and Chandra being assaulted, losing her sunglasses and then being dragged downhill, oh so close to getting away to Ridge Road and the open picnic table area.

Do you have any idea how ironic this achievement is?

I would give anything for everyone to re-enact what I just described. It would boggle your mind.

rd
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 1232
Location: Northern Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The jury needs to be taken to the 'crime scene' Rd.

Markers need to be placed so that Jurors can spot them from above or below. Tall poles with colored flags that indicate where various pieces of 'evidence' were found along with a map to indicate same.

That is the only way that they could truly comprehend the situation and the unlikelihood of Chandra being in that area to jog or for that matter being attacked there, as the prosecutor speculates.

It has always sounded to me as though her body was thrown from above and as was stated, various items were tossed here and there to 'stage' the scene.

One item I recall from years ago was the portable audio cassette. Wasn't that found propped up on a rock midway down the slope?

ls
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agreed, skipper. One important distinction though. 238 feet down is a long way. The body had to be dragged through trees to the final resting spot.

There are no rocks. It is an extremely smooth, steeply slanted gravelly side of a hill. You can barely stand up. You slide backwards, or down if walking down.

No details were given officially about the tape player. The only information about tape strewn about and maybe the artist (Rainbow's Frank Sinatra) is from National Enquirer. I am not saying it is right or wrong, I have no idea.

If any info was given in Finding Chandra or Washington Post series, I'm not aware of it but then I didn't wade through it either, but I'm reasonably certain they never said that Chandra's remains were found with a Frank Sinatra tape. Well, ok, I am more than reasonably certain.

rd
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