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Guandique trial
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lector



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: A quick drop-in Reply with quote

Hi folks,

I haven't been by here in a long time. Not for lack of interest, there just isn't enough time in my life for everything in this world that intrigues me. Glad to see you all are still here fighting the good fight.

They had CNN on at my cardiac rehab gym today, & the pundits were busy hyping their coverage of the Levy case. Apparently they are running a big special repeatedly all weekend, the occasion being the commencement of the Guandique trial. I won't see this because I don't have any form of paid TV at home; maybe I'll be able to catch up with it on the Net at some point.

I think it's criminal that they are putting together a special like this without talking to Ralph. But of course that's the way the machine works. I wonder how many times they'll mention joggers.

Anyway, CNN served to remind me of how long it had been since I looked in here. I may pop by more frequently, now that the trial is getting underway & the progress of the seasons will have me spending more time indoors.

Again, I'm glad to see that you folks have been staying with the case & the coverage.
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sigsky



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Levy trial jury is finalized Reply with quote

Interesting composition. Twelve women and four men. I could speculate on the implications of that all night but I don't dare. My gut says that spells trouble for Guandique, but who knows?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/update-on-the-news/levy-trial-jury-selection-hits.html

Still no word on video coverage :-(
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the one hand I agree, sigsky. Sort of kneejerk he's a rapist murderer fry him from women who empathize very emotionally.

On the other I have always believed that women should understand Chandra better than men. For example, given the facts of Chandra's activities, emotions, communications, and behavior overall and in detail leading up to her disappearance, I have to believe that women would know that they themselves wouldn't do anything the DC police and prosecutors contend Chandra did and would be able to absorb and internalize the details of her disappearance and recovery to understand the truth better than men.

On the other other hand, they might not believe that Condit's girlfriends all believed him that they were the only one and that his wife was terminally ill, and not care about her because she's the "other woman".

So this is why I'm not a jury consultant and start thinking about people instead of the truth. Before, I knew that not many have the time to understand the details. Those that followed this closely, in the hundreds of thousands, know a great deal about this case, but it didn't change anything if anyone didn't look into it enough to understand.

But now it matters a great deal that these twelve people have the opportunity to know the truth to understand. I am optimistic that both men and women will consider the facts carefully and be presented with enough context to evaluate the contentions.

At least I hope so.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lector, so good to see you. I was reading one of your posts last night when I was reviewing some threads. Hope you can join in when you have the opportunity.

Like sigsky says, nothing about video coverage yet, so cable tv may not be a factor. Lord knows you'd have to give me a lobotomy to sit me in front of one of those crime talk shows where they show video looping over and over. If not I would take care of it myself.

Between Doyle and an ex-API reporter (can't remember her name off hand) at TBD.com blogging, quite frankly I think we'd get better coverage and comments than looking at a camera trained on the courtroom. But I'm not a trial watcher so maybe wrong about that.

Anyway we'll all pitch in our analysis from whatever sources we have. Probably helpful to have different info sources anyway.

rd
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching those shows IS a lobotomy. I have been stupid enough to get hooked on some cases in the past, but I don't let myself do it anymore (and hopefully my brain is healing!)
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"There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've mentioned Bert Fields is currently Condit's lawyer (someone estimated eighth) and apparently book agent, but Michael Doyle is reporting that Condit now has yet another defense lawyer for this trial, Thomas Warwick of San Diego.

Warwick is with the firm Grimes & Warwick. From this announcement I expect that Condit expects more than a cursory inquiry into possible motive for murder of Chandra as reasonable doubt.

rd

Chandra Levy murder trial 10/21: Gary Condit's new attorney signs up
Suits & Sentences
Michael Doyle
October 21, 2010

http://blogs.mcclatchydc.com/law/2010/10/chandra-levy-murder-trial-1021-gary-condits-attorney-signs-up.html
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder whether he gives them all identical gold bracelets...
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Christ
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

at least the trip to Palm Springs won't be far...

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another gross misrepresentation of the truth that has so misled the public, and by extension the jury. This from CNN's AC360 correspondent Joe Johns quoting that ultimate source of misinformation, the Washington Post's Sari Horwitz.

She has to be on the government payroll or has a deal for the government to buy a boatload of her books or more likely expects to sell a boatload of Finding Chandra in an unnatural symbiotic relationship with the government.

Here's the quote:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/22/author-outlines-the-chandra-levy-murder-case/

Based on her reporting, Horwitz believes Guandique likely came across Levy on a small footpath in Rock Creek Park while Levy was out jogging.

"He used to sit on that curb over there and watch the women joggers coming by down this path," Horwitz said, pointing out the spot in the D.C. park. "And Chandra Levy, we believe, was walking down this path on a beautiful, sunny, May first day in 2001. Now Gunadique has confessed to attacking with a knife two other women who walked down this path and he has been serving a 10 year sentence for those assaults."


end quote

Quite a path, isn't it? For starters, considering the two joggers Guandique did attack along Beach Drive, Horwitz and Allan Lengel (who is one of the ultimate sources of factual information in the case along with Michael Doyle) had this to report in the Washington Post back in September 2002:

Levy's remains were discovered...about a half-mile from where Guandique attacked one jogger and less than two miles from where he attacked another.

end quote

This indicated to me that the two joggers on Beach Drive were attacked one and a half miles apart on Beach Drive, although firm locations were never reported to the public via a map. People jog along Beach Drive on both sides. There is a dirt trail along Beach Drive on the side of the huge hill and a paved path on the other side along Rock Creek.

But let's take the closest one, the half mile away. What's between Beach Drive and Chandra's remains a half mile away? A hill hundreds of feet high and hundreds of feet across and hundreds of feet down the other side to where Chandra was hidden, at some point, very difficult to believe her remains were undetected that summer strewn across the hillside where she was found. No one quoted in the area believed that a body could go undetected that summer of searches and down below off of a horse trail.

So Horwitz, and her buddies the DC police and prosecutors, who undoubtely will reward her with future information, etc. would have you believe that Chandra was jogging along Beach Drive, Chandra that never jogged or took walks by the way, Horwitz will never tell you that, and was attacked by Guandique two weeks before his first Beach Drive assault, but then forced her or carried her on a half hour journey up a horse trail on the highest hill in DC, across Ridge Road, across Western Ridge horse trail, out a narrow path, and then dragged her 238 feet down the other side and hid her under leaves hundreds of feet above Broad Branch Road on the other side of the hill from Beach Drive.

And you have another sycophant, Jack Barrett, who was responsible for the coverup referred to as the Chandra Levy investigation, shown in video elsewhere on a path, the extremely narrow and slanted foot trail above where Chandra's remains were found, pointing out the path where Chandra was assaulted, and what member of the public could possibly discern that these are not the same path at all.

No one, quite frankly. They are fed a steady stream of bullshit from Washington DC and couldn't possibly know the truth unless they went there themselves.

The whole point of reporting is so they don't have to go there themselves.

We know Horwitz has an agenda. It's up to the rest of the press to do more than quote her if they are to actually serve their audience.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is interesting from Keith Alexander and Scott Higham of the Washington Post.

First the usual quibble with a quote from the prosecutor. The DC prosecutors say they found a picture of Chandra in Guandique's cell. As I point out every time, Guandique was investigated and given a lie detector test back when he was in jail for the assault of the two Beach Drive joggers and before Chandra's remains were found.

It would be a bit unnatural if he didn't have an interest in the woman he was investigated for murdering. Both having the picture, oh by the way, which DC police describe as "ripped" from a magazine, they are so subtle in their ways aren't they, and a "cellmate confession" inmate claiming that Guandique referred to an "Italian looking girl", are routinely trotted out by the DC prosecutors to imply that Guandique didn't know who Chandra was but aha! the DC police found him out with crack investigative skill and the DC prosecutors will nail him for it.

What they don't trot out along with it is that Guandique was questioned and polygraphed about Chandra, he knew who she was, and they didn't discover any secrets at all. It wasn't secret.

As I've written before, I would consider it strange if Guandique acted like he didn't know who the murder victim was that he had been questioned and polygraphed about.

Now to the interesting part, concerning that polygraph. The Washington Post initially reported that Guandique had been polygraphed in September of 2001 about Chandra, the same month he pled guilty to the two assaults on the Beach Drive joggers, Halle Shilling and Christy Wiegand, thank goodness they each successfully fought the bastard off, and was sentenced to ten years as the judge described him, as "highly dangerous".

But then during this Finding Chandra publicity, a puzzling big deal was made about the polygraph "not taking place until February" by someone representing the DC establishment being interviewed. It was supposed to somehow bolster the "polygraph wasn't legitimate" claims by those that found it inconvenient for their agenda.

But no explanation for why a polygraph four months later was a factor.

Now in this latest article from the Washington Post, they are reporting:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/24/AR2010102402624_2.html?sid=ST2010101602567

In 2002, before he was sentenced for attacking the two women in Rock Creek Park, Guandique took a polygraph test. He said "no" when asked whether he knew anything about Levy's disappearance. The examiner who administered the test said Guandique was not being deceptive.

end quote

Since he was sentenced in September 2001, "2002" and "before he was sentenced" can't both be true. The February 2002 could be true and misunderstood that he hadn't been sentenced yet, or he hadn't been sentenced yet in September 2001 and they have the year wrong, don't know which.

But with all the carrying on during Finding Chandra publicity about no polygraph until February, it'd be hard to believe the original Washington Post reported date of September 2001 is correct.

My guess is the current reporting combines the two innacurately. But again, with the "didn't take it until February" and nodding knowingly, I'm not sure what it is other than they really, really don't want you to think that Guandique passed a polygraph and Condit refused to take one.

And now more detail about what brings this out. They report that:

During a hearing after the polygraph, the lead prosecutor on Guandique's assault case, Assistant U.S. Attorney Kristina Ament, told Judge Noel Anketell Kramer that there was "no suggestion" that Guandique was involved in the Levy case.

Why in the world was there all that stuff about Guandique not taking the polygraph until February if it wasn't true? That was when the disinformation campaign was in full swing to get an indictment, such as mentioning DNA prominently and leading the public to believe they found Guandique's DNA on Chandra's tights. I know, I wrote on that and saw it just the other day.

I guess the disinformation served its purpose. They got the indictment.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning that DNA (and now polygraph) misinformation, a couple of relevant posts:

a poster wrote:
I would think it would have to be something found on those knotted leggings.


That's about the only place it could come from where it had a chance of being protected somewhat from the elements. And maybe a hair is the only thing that could have survived. I'll just have to see what they say they found.

In addition to the fact that Chandra couldn't have been up there on that huge hill alone in a forest, but that it is next to a park picnic bench where someone can drive up and drag her body down the hill, the claim is that Chandra's murder is similar to Guandique's MO.

There is a major difference in the MO. Tying Chandra up with her own leggings to murder her is a seriously sophisticated crime. Guandique was a very young man who had shown no such sophistication is his assaults on his girlfriend and victims.

Guandique attacked his victims with a knife to the throat. There was no blood found on Chandra's clothes, and while it would have been possible to overcome Chandra with a knife without cutting her, just one of numerous reasons Chandra wouldn't be out in the middle of nowhere to start with, it is not a demonstrated MO that after attacking his other victims he dropped the knife and began strangling them or something besides holding a knife to their throat.

Guandique claimed to attack the other victims to steal their Walkman, but Chandra's was left with her body.

Guandique broke into a neighboring apartment to steal a ring, but he never pawned Chandra's easily identifiable ring. It has never been found.

Guandique attacked victims along a heavily trafficked Beach Drive with bushes between the jogging path and the road. The jogging path was frequented by many lone female joggers. He waited until one would come by, then ran then down and put a knife to their throat. Both fought him off.

Chandra was found at the top of a huge hill above Beach Drive and down the other side hundreds of feet hidden away. There is a road that meanders up the hill, does switchbacks and everything else to get up there, and then run alongs the top of the hill. It's called Ridge Road.

There is no way that Chandra was out climbing that steep hill or Guandique following her up the hill, it takes at least half an hour to walk up the hill. And if Guandique is suspected of hanging out up there instead of on Beach Drive, he would have had an interminable wait for a lone female victim. I was there an entire Friday afternoon and only saw two couples come though with their dogs.

The horse trail is so steep, slanted, and narrow, with tree roots and dirt and gravel, that footing is precarious. I couldn't even find a place to sit and type without sliding off of anything I sat on.

Six days after Guandique allegedly tied up Chandra and murdered her, he ran from an apartment he had broken into with a ring he stole from the jewelry box. He knew he was seen, and didn't even attack the women, much less tie her up and murder her.

So no, the MO is not similar, and the only proximity to where Guandique hung out is by bird's eye view of a map. As I point out in posts about reporters saying they are close, it's like saying the Washington Post building near the Capitol is close to the top of the Washington Monument. Yes, from a bird's eye view, but getting there is something entirely different.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and:

All I'm asking is what happened when. How is it that Guandique's DNA was discovered as soon as the Republicans leave town and the Democrats roll in seven years after Chandra laid in that coroner's office for a year.

If it's alleged new technology, I want to know what it is. I want to know why the three forensic experts technology was not allowed to be used to detect what we are now being led to believe was just discovered.

And I want to make sure that the DNA evidence wasn't, let's be politically correct here, incidentally cross contaminated with Chandra's clothes.

But we haven't heard anything yet, so don't know how many of those questions will be answered yet.

Gain wise, it would be enormously embarrassing to the Democrats to have one of their former leading Congressman convicted of murdering one of his constituents interning in Washington. He was protected by the House at the time, they let him use Constitutional separation of powers to refuse for months at a time to comply with subpoenas without any pressure from them to comply.

Certainly there was no danger of Condit being prosecuted without even being investigated, but convicting Guandique would let them entirely off the hook.

Whatever is going on, they would love to place Chandra where her body was found with Guandique and have a we found DNA of Guandique, she was there and convict him.

But no one who cares about Chandra should let this proceed without ensuring that it takes place within the full context of her life. One would have to argue that she became suicidal at 1 pm and never wanted to speak to Condit again as she hiked for miles through streets and roads and into a forest until she was murdered.

And that is exactly what Condit told the DC police in the beginning.

So let's have a trial with Condit's first version, and go through his next six or seven versions throughout the trial and see how many jurors will take the Chandra Levy Walk in the Park Challenge and believe the prosecution.

Heck, let's trot a couple of the female prosecutors out there for giggles, alone of course, with nothing but a walkman and leggings, and see how convincing they end up being in court.

rd
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sigsky



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I sense an upcoming book about the trial? ;-)
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sigsky



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject: How to inadvertently corrupt a hard drive? Reply with quote

Scott Higham and Sari Horwitz are fond of saying that Chandra's hard drive was accidentally corrupted by police investigators. I'm fairly computer savy but I have no idea how to intentionally corrupt a hard drive much less do it accidentally. You could format it. But it's hard to imagine a total idiot would proceed after the warning that all data will be erased. I think it is much more likely that Chandra's search history was erased which is easy to do and you can set your computer to do it automatically. I don't believe Chandra's hard drive was really "corrupted" but would like more detail.

What I know almost nothing about is computer forensics. How difficult is it to obtain data that has been erased? I know it can be done and my impression is that it is not that difficult although I'm sure it depends on the way it was erased.

This has been bugging me for a while, and I'm sure it will come up in the trial so I'm posting it here.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, I wish I could, sigsky, but I'm booked up.

More on the corrupted hard drive later, this is a quick post from my Blackberry, but I for a background for readers who haven't read it yet, see chapter On Her Computer.

rd
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