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Possible Natalee Holloway find underwater off Aruba
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from websleuths, chargers2010 wrote:
rd,

Where in the photo do you see an intact shoe? I can't see one. Thanks.


It's not a shoe I would expect to see, but it's a perfect shape of one, chargers. It's just a lump in the small, darkened original. If you can look at my blowups (see Possible Natalee Holloway underwater off Aruba - pictures), it's clearly visible in second picture which is enlarged but still dark. In third picture I blew up the original more and lightened so I could see better.

If you can go to the third picture, pan straight down by dragging bar on right side with mouse or arrowing down. Going down left side you will see the covering with extension at upper right about where an arm would be (it's just a dark extension). The material like covering descends from upper right to lower left in the picture.

Arrowing down a teensy bit more the covering curves down and stops. There is a rock that bulges inward from left. It looks like a few inches of a lower leg extending straight down from end of material at curve. The lower leg like looking extension seems to end in an ankle high shoe with wide moderate height heel and toe wedged below rock that bulges in from left of picture.

The reason the shape of a shoe is so perfect as that it is seen broadside, with back of shoe and heel to right and toe to left, but toe is in the crevice.

This is an area that is dangerous because it looks so much like a leg and shoe that I have to be careful of my mind filling in gaps to make it that. However, the back of the shoe is perfectly straight, the heel is well formed, the bottom of the shoe even appears to have tread, and examining the entire picture I see no other rocks that resemble the linearity of this form.

It is not as clearcut as the skull as to what it is to me, but it appears to be manmade. Given its position on the other end of the material covering from the skull, its shape, and for the life of me looking like it's still on a leg, if it isn't a shoe it's one heck of an optical illusion in just the right place where one would expect it.

But like I say, not this shoe, not on Natalee. But it is what it is.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to those who have posted that the Aruban authorities believe it is coral and not human remains, and no need to look for this:

They have the same thing to look at as we do. If this were a picture thought to be of any missing person in a site in the US, would we not expect that there is enough of a question to find the site and find out?

rd
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 2892
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to posting but you know why. I'm glad we have a running thread on this new find. Nothing to add as of yet except a thank you RD as my friend Curious said to you. Thanks for all you do, as always.

Will keep following from here and also on WS.

Goz
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much appreciated from both you and Curious. I hope there's a lot more to this thread when someone finds the site.

News reports of Aruba dismissing picture as rocks and coral abound. They went to some areas frequented by tourists and couldn't find anything but coral and rocks.

What I'd like to know is why they haven't even found the scuba tour guide?

There's something fishy here, so to speak.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from websleuths: now we have a long post about shoes....only problem is that the last pictures of Natalee show her in flip flops.

There is an important concept you should keep in mind. Don't let expectations get in the way of reality.

I quite frankly don't care what shoes Natalee was wearing. I posted that the shoe was not what one would expect with Natalee, but this picture is not necessarily that of Natalee. Nevertheless, it is very clearly a skull and a very clear outline of a shoe, and it needs to be found and identified.

The Arubans haven't even made the effort to talk about the tour guide who took the scuba expedition out. No one can tell me that he hasn't seen the press on this, so clearly that is a coverup. Why is he not taking reporters out to the spot near the shipwreck where they were scuba diving?

Some also have a thing against Natalee and who knows who else, which normally I would dismiss except you are disparaging my work because of it. That I can't dismiss.

When one can trace a solid outline in a picture then they are not seeing something as in the mind filling in gaps. There are no gaps. The outline of the shoe is real. For all I know it could have been a pair of boots used to weight down the body. I don't care. I call it as I see it, not shade what I see based on expectations. The point is, there is something that needs to be found and identified.

The Aruban spokeswoman made the unbelievable statement that there are lots of bodies found offshore. I don't have any idea but that's a quote. Maybe this isn't Natalee, but it isn't rock and coral emulating a skull, covering, and shoe. The Arubans may not want to find all these bodies offshore or whatever they're talking about, but how hard can it be to find the scuba tour guide and go on another freaking scuba expedition that a 78 year old did?

So someone do it, hopefully dismissing the negative talk about Natalee like the rest of us are.

In the same article where Arubans dismiss the skull as rock and coral formations, an expert is again quoted about the head being wrong either up or down, and the eye sockets too low thing.

I'm happy he is an expert, but the skull is not up or down, it is to the LEFT. Hello, face to the left, eye sockets are not too low, open mouth and teeth, and on and on.

Expectations. There are expectations that this isn't a skull, so expectations cloud their judgement. Look without expectations and what is there is there. It should be found and identified. Rock and coral formations don't change overnight. The greenish material on a large rock between the skull and the shoe is not hard to see either.

I will leave the negativity to those that just don't want Natalee searched for, which apparently includes the Arubans. Hopefully we'll have some more info from a scuba expedition that can clarify with additional pictures.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from websleuths: exactly. the formation did not even strike them as a body even when they were just feet away from it.

It's not necessarily a body, it's a skull. It's that constant shading that implies "intact" which then sets you off on that tangent. It's a skull. Period. She didn't see a skull.

As for the Holloway's, both dad and mom, I doubt they have looked at my blowup. If they haven't, as I posted earlier, it is impossible to look at the original picture and make a determination. The detail of the skull is not seen. They would have no more idea if it's rocks than a skull. Look at the blowup, center the skull on the screen, and anyone, anyone, describe one detail that isn't that of a skull.

Haven't seen that done yet. Because there is no detail missing of that of a skull. If there is and someone can describe it, I will be glad to change my position.

Until then, people can't look at stuff from a distance and make determinations that require detail, the detail that people use magnifying glasses and binoculars for. "It's rocks" lacks any detail itself. Precisely why is it "rocks" and not a skull. Surely someone can describe what about it lacks the detail of a skull comparable to the detail of a skull that I describe.

rd
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 866
Location: THE LEFT COAST

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:59 pm    Post subject: Question Reply with quote

Hi RD et al.!
Have you sent your photo-analysis to any of the law enforcement agencies involved?
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no Rainbow, I haven't. Thanks for asking. Authorities in Aruba don't want to know, so irrelevant if FBI cared enough to try to prod them.

Given no word from the scuba tour captain, I'm not even sure a determined civilian could find him and get him to take another trip to same spot near ship wreck.

That's what I would hope would happen. The sooner the better, if someone can find him.

rd
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