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New DNA Evidence Clears Ramsey Family in JonBenet Death
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: New DNA Evidence Clears Ramsey Family in JonBenet Death Reply with quote

Open for discussion all. Now they are cleared all? This case will never end IMO. What about the handwriting samples?

Goz


(fair use)
New DNA Evidence Clears Ramsey Family in JonBenet Death
Wednesday, July 09, 2008
Associated Press



SNIP
Officials cleared the immediate family of JonBenet Ramsey in her death Wednesday thanks to new DNA evidence that links the murder to a still unknown man.

District Attorney Mary T. Lacy in Boulder, Colo., gave the girl's father, John Ramsey, a letter Wednesday that stated that "significant new evidence convinces us that it is appropriate, given the circumstances of this case, to state that we do not consider your immediate family, including you, your wife, Patsy, and your son, Burke, to be under any suspicion in the commission of this crime."

Click here to read the letter.

JonBenet, a 6-year-old beauty contestant, was found dead in her family's Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996. She had been reported missing early in the morning and was found by her father in the family's basement. She'd been strangled and bludgeoned and had signs of sexual molestation.

SNIP


SNIP
In the letter, obtained by FOXNews.com, Lacy said that a "touch DNA" test by Bode Technology Group outside of Washington, D.C., found new evidence on long johns and underwear worn by JonBenet. Touch DNA testing scrapes clothing for signs of genetic material.


"The match of male DNA on two separate items of clothing worn by the victim at the time of the murder makes it clear to us that an unknown male handled these items," Lacy wrote. "Despite substantial efforts over the years to identify the source of this DNA, there is no innocent explanation for its incriminating presence at three sites on these two different items of clothing that JonBenet was wearing at the time of her murder."

The letter also included an apology.
SNIP



click link for whole article

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379041,00.html
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laskipper



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many experts have stated that Patsy wrote the 3 page 'ransom note'.

She came to the door when police arrived, dressed in the clothing she had on the previous night. Not night clothing. She claimed to have slept through the night and came down the back stairs, finding the ransom note on the steps.

They didn't tear through the house looking for her- or signs of her 'kidnapper' but rather invited a tribe of people to the house, who compromised the crime scene/s.


Without the influence that John Ramsey commanded due to his position, (affiliation with GE, et al), and his friends, one or more of them would have been in the slammer years ago.

As to the long johns (with the DNA), if those are the ones that JonBenet wore under her long pants to the White's party earlier that evening, it was stated that Jon Benet went to the bathroom at the party and a male helped her with wiping. Where was Patsy? It's out there still to read about. Most likely Candy Rose's link.

If I recall, the Ramsey's stated that they put Jonbenet to bed in her turtle neck and long johns (same lj's) she had on to the party.

If she wet the bed and was changed into a different pair (that night)- I don't recall. I don't think so- but could be wrong.

Then, there is the pesky tape- where Burkes' voice is heard on the police tape- yet the Ramsey's insisted he was still sleeping at that time.



Mr White, John Ramsey's friend prior to the murder, knows something. The men had a serious falling out while in Georgia, attending the funeral of JonBenet.

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/2000/020600ramsey.html

Excerpt:

Current D.A. Lacy, who worked for Hunter for 13 years and is considered his protégé, never convened a new grand jury to look into the case. In 2003 she in effect exonerated the Ramseys by hiring an investigator to pursue the intruder theory. Under Lacy, in all likelihood, no one will ever be called to answer for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.

[Editor's Note: This article was last updated on August 30, 2006. It will be updated again from time-to-time as developments in the case warrant.]

Just my opinion.

ls
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A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves
~
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Last edited by laskipper on Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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jane



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people think the Ramseys were part of a perverted-sex ring (IMO the circumstances could easily fit that scenario).
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use to think they were innocent or would go back and forth till I read Steve Thomas's book. I could not believe they would kill their child. I still think it was done by accident.

Skipper your points are on target where mine would be. Who do they think they are kidding! We know Patsy wrote the ramson note. I do not believe still to this day that John knew about the crime at first but then he covered for Patsy.

Also, what about Burke's voice in that is heard on the 911 call? There is no excuse for that either.

I do not buy into the sex ring theory even though many do. I just can't imagine it in this case. Mabye I don't want to see it. I see Patsy being angry that she wet the bed and shoved her and she hit her head then the staging took place.

Friends in high place will leave this case unsolved though.

Good to hear your thoughts all.

Goz
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skipper, what is that about a male helping JonBenet in the bathroom? Who was that? How does that happen? If true, why would he not have been a prime suspect to be cleared? If cleared, that means they have his DNA and it doesn't match this latest scraping.

Also, there was alleged to be DNA evidence prior, not sperm if I understand correctly, and ambiguous in nature. Why would this latest thing not say whether the "scrapings" matched or didn't match the prior alleged DNA found?

I would say these are clueless people trying to figure out a way to walk away from this. They are shamefully clueless if they think anyone would believe someone other than Patsy wrote the ransom note.

rd

click to read the online true crime mystery novel Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy

www.justiceforchandra.com home page

Background threads:

Arrest Made in JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case

John Ramsey Speaks- Larry King Live Transcript 12/20/06
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 1272
Location: Northern Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-donald-nedra-paugh.htm


Go to the bottom left corner- here the Grandmother- Nedra- tells police that JonBenet was asking any adult to help her wipe after going to the bathroom.


Found this reference- that JonBenet had asked Fleet White to help her-


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.true-crime/msg/2c87044ec7ba60db



> [...]"in "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" it was revealed
> that JonBenet had asked people other than her mom--moms of her
> friends while attheir homes playing or people who they were
> visiting--to help wipe her after she used the bathroom. Kind of
> weird, I agree, for a child of 6--not not unheard of.

> Back when the case was in full-swing, I, too, heard that
> JonBenét had asked other people to help her in the bathroom."-

Thanks for reminding me (and everyone else).

IIRC, she even asked Fleet White to do that for her, at the
party (I don't have my book handy -- it's at home and I'm
not). I also remember Patsy's sister (Paugh) talking
about that, on TV....like it wasn't a problem.

**

Need to find my copy of Perfect Murder, Perfect Town. Evidently, that is one place that I read about someone helping (wipe) JonBenet at the White's party.

The poster above states that it was Fleet White - that could be.

ls
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as there was a scream heard in the middle of the night in Chandra's' case:

The Scream:

http://www.timescall.com/ramsey/storyDetail03.asp?ID=25



Excerpt

The Evidence

Carnes began her ruling outlining the timeline of the crime, which had been

reported repeatedly in the media, sometimes accurately and sometimes not.

On Dec. 25, 1996, John and Pasty Ramsey attended, with their children

JonBenet and Burke, a Christmas party at the home of family friends Fleet

and Priscilla White. The children fell asleep in the car on the way home

and were taken to bed. The family planned to wake up early the next day

because they were going to fly to Michigan for a family vacation.

According to John and Patsy Ramsey, they were never awakened in the night,

although a neighbor told police she heard a scream in the early morning of

Dec. 26.

Carnes ruled that it was very plausible the neighbor could have heard the

scream without it being heard in the house.

“Experiments have demonstrated that the vent from the basement may have

amplified the scream so that it could have been heard outside the house,

but not three stories up, in the defendant’s bedroom,” Carnes wrote in her

ruling.

**

There are numerous article about the neighbors hearing a scream from the

Ramsey house. Some put the scream at 12:00 midnight- some in a range- 12

midnight to 2:00 pm.

Ramseys, per above and other articles, claim they heard no scream-

But for this:


Excerpt:

25 TOM HANEY: Okay. So no independent
0329
1 recollection of --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 TOM HANEY:-- that?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.
5 TOM HANEY: Okay. One other thing, this
6 morning you mentioned that the doctors, Dr. Brown in
7 Atlanta, had diagnosed this post traumatic stress
8 disorder, and I wondered what the symptoms, what
9 symptoms you experience as a result of that.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, just very sad and
11 very -- crying a lot, fatigue easily.
12 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do your symptoms include
13 anything like nightmares?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: I had those.
15 TOM HANEY: About?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh, I have flashbacks of
17 seeing my daughter lying down on the floor in our
18 living room, and I have flashbacks of hearing JonBenet *********
19 scream. I have nightmares where I am, you know,
20 searching, searching, searching trying to find
21 somebody, and trying to find who did this.(Thanks to JMO8778 of

websleuths for finding this gem!)
LINE 18-29

How could she have flashbacks of hearing her scream?


http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-ramsey/TVG913V72L2T3T2BP


**

Flashbacks- doesn't that refer to something that you lived through? Heard, in this case.
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boulder has screwed this case up since day one.

Thanks for all the extra information Skipper. I have read the books on the case plus most of what has been posted all along on WS so I'm pretty familiar with it all. Glad you have reposted it and all the important pts.

Candy Rose's link had much information that I found useful. Glad we have you to do the searching and the remembering for us all!! I found the handwriting samples (if I remember correctly) on Candy Rose.

Goz
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: more bunk from John Ramsey Reply with quote

Every few years this keeps coming up and nothing seems to happen or be solved. Just to keep this case in the spotlight. Sure they are going to find the killer. I will eat my hat along with everyone else. Now there is an 80% chance the case will be solved. I guess when they bring Patsy back from the grave!


(fair use)
Family Holds Out Hope to Find JonBenet Ramsey's Killer
Thursday, July 10, 2008
Associated Press



SNIP
BOULDER, Colo. — The family of JonBenet Ramsey remains hopeful that the 6-year-old beauty queen’s murderer will be apprehended, although the girl’s father reportedly said, “I don’t know anyone that evil."

“I’ve always said I don’t know anyone that evil,” John Ramsey told 9News/KUSA in Colorado. “I don’t. There have lately been suspects along the way that look very interesting, but now that we have very solid DNA that when we get a DNA match, I think we’ll have 80 percent of the case solved.”

SNIP


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380161,00.html
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the article, Goz. It's typical of what's been going on in this world of late.

Funny, in the article, Pam Paugh stated that now that the Ramsey family has been 'cleared', they can move on to the final goal- finding the killer.

Think about that for a minute.

If you were innocent, you would find the killer and that would eliminate the need to prove your innocense, would it not?

Out of the gate- John Ramsey wanted to put as much real estate between the family and Boulder, Colorado as possible. The day they found JonBenets' body, he was attempting to find a means of flying to Georgia (or Michigan, can't recall). There didn't seem to be much thought at that time about the 'real killer' and/or finding this person.

We all know why.

The police put the Kibosh on his travel plans. At least for a short while.

All clues lead back to the same place.

ls
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an opinion piece on Fox News today about the shenanigans going on with this prosecutor. The writer, a detective knowledgeable about the case, poses the same points and questions we are, and attributes the answer to a biased prosecutor, biased against other Boulder LE that is.

Jeffrey Scott Shapiro: DA Wrong to Clear Ramseys
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379981,00.html

rd
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laskipper



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent article by Mr Shapiro. He sums it up rather nicely.


Thanks for the article, rd!

ls
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laskipper



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of interesting discussion about the Jonbenet case:


http://www.websleuths.com/ Scroll to the JonBenet link

Most on this board have been following the story for years and are aware of all the tell-tale details that point to the murderer, as well as the 'Ransom Note' being the dead giveaway. Most believe that the DA was over stepping in clearing the Ramsey family.

Not the only major error on the part of Mary Lacy- there was John Karr in 2006.
ls
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French philosopher Bertrand de Jouvenel (1903-1987)
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skipper:

LE caught J. Ramsey making travel plans to go to Atlanta. The reason he stated was that he wanted to leave was because he had family
there and didn't want to be without them in CO.
I think that was within 15 min. of finding the body. Could he have waited any longer?

Why haven't they looked for the killer for all these years if Pam is now stating they are "Cleared" and can now look for the killer? Bet they ate it up big time when Karr the fruitcake came forward. So sad this story really has not conclusion and Boulder really messed this up from the get go....

Wonder what Beth Hollaway sees in him? She must know something we all don't know about John even though as I stated prior I don't believe he had anything to do with the murder but covered up for Patsy.

Goz
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laskipper



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could well be right, Goz- about John covering for Patsy.

There was a time when I leaned towards Burke. Many reasons- mostly because they attempted to cover the fact that he was up when the call to police was made- he was heard on the tape saying "what did you find?" or something on that order.

Another point- is the fact that Burkes prints (Patsy's also) are on the pineapple that was found in the middle of the table. Jon Benet had pineapple in her stomach and did not eat it at the Whites' party. John and Patsy both state that they put a sleeping JonBenet to bed- she fell asleep in the car on the way home from Whites party- and they didn't give her anything to eat. Had to have been Burke.

If that is the case, it means that JonBenet was up after John and Patsy went to sleep. Burke would have given her the pineapple.

The rest is anyones guess. Burke had whacked JonBenet on the head with a golf club in the past. Seems he was jealous of her. Also obvious that he is mean.

Then there is that print in the mold in the room where JonBenet was found. They stated it was made by Burke- but then Ramseys' said that Burke does not own that type of tennis shoe *will post link later


Another point- is the knife. Burkes knife was found next to JonBenets' body. More on that some other day.

ls
_________________
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves
~
French philosopher Bertrand de Jouvenel (1903-1987)


Last edited by laskipper on Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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