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Jennifer Kesse POI photo analysis links
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maresy



Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's link to Orange County Motorcycle Police slideshow.

http://www.ocso.com/DesktopModules/SimpleGallery/SlideShowPopup.aspx?PortalID=0&ItemID=10&Border=Blank&sb=FileName&sd=ASC
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Sparta



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Police want to hear from anyone who may have seen the Chevy Malibu anytime after 10pm Monday night, when Jennifer last spoke to her boyfriend, and Thursday morning at 8am, when the car was found.

Detectives think Jennifer herself, or someone else, was traveling on South John Young Parkway, between Texas and Americana and Conroy Road by the Mall of Millenia, during that time frame.



Interesting. If the car was traveling south ON John Young Parkway, that's quite different than "through" JYP. I mean it's possible he drove straight from Mosaic or whatever (if he abducted JK as she was walking to her car from her condo) and went straight to HOTG. However it says "on" JYP traveling south which means he was somewhere north of Conroy. He must've made a left on Conroy/Americana and headed towards HOTG (if he was driving south down JYP)

So what is farther north up John Young Parkway? Well thanks to maresy locating the jail for us, that's exactly what is up the road from where this guy was driving from. Looks like the Orange County jail is about 2 miles north of the intersection of John Young/ConroyAmericana.
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Sparta



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another morsel for thought. At the time of Jennifer's disappearance, the Orange County Jail was under significant construction. They made a brand new facility. I don't know how to say this without being blunt, but I wonder how difficult it would have been for a corrections officer to bury a body there while construction was taking place.

an earlier comment by maresy.

take a look at the pictures of JK's car. the bottom is dirty and the tires look like they've been driving through dirt or something. is it possible JK was taken to the jail which was under heavy construction at the time? it would probably be deserted at the hour the kidnapping took place (before it got light out or completely light out)was the jail occupied at all during the construction? Or did they have to move prisoners and other arrestees to another jail? And if the suspect was seen traveling on south john young parkway, he'd be traveling from the direction of the jail which was just about 2 miles north.

Certainly the dirt on the car could be from a million other things. I do find the comments about traveling on JYP intriguing though.

rd have you had a chance to examine the orange county corrections officer patch? you said it looked very similar to the one on the suspect's shirt right?
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Sparta



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as for the car being dropped off maybe during the night time...

since the clock in the still photos reads 13:00:27 doesn't that mean 1:00 PM as 1300 is 1:00 PM in military time. So this would eliminate the possibility the car may have been parked at nighttime. They said the security camera clock was running an hour fast but that wouldn't change the time of when the car was dropped off.

However she may have been abducted at night. 10 PM - 8 AM is still the time frame for when this happened. Nothing's been released publicly to narrow down the 10 PM - 8 AM timeframe.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9218
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is certainly interesting, Sparta. When the article came out back when, I saw that they said on John Young Parkway rather than through it, but I had no idea what of relevance it could have been coming from. Now we know where it could have been coming from.

I have the corrections patch from maresy's link but I have to clip it out of a larger pciture and post it with the other badges. I'll put that on top of my list for this weekend.

The dirt on the car, the construction of a new jail, a shoulder patch that looks like a corrections patch, and a suspect wearing a duty belt with a holster for a taser which the county issues to its deputies.

That scenario is really coming together, Sparta.

rd
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Sparta



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it certainly is. I wanted to hear what your thoughts were on the corrections badge though. you seemed that it was the best one yet on first glance. have you had a chance to look over it more?

And as for the "on" vs "through" yeah it's a huge difference and I wish I knew the answer. The writer may have just chose to write "on" when in fact Jennifer's car was captured at the intersection of JYP/ConroyAmericana.

Like when the reporters were never clear on when JK called her boyfriend every morning, it's these little details that could make all the difference in the world.

They should give us the case file dammit!

I am intrigued by this new theory though.
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maresy



Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the first few days of Jennifer's disappearance, there was an interview with Jenn's boyfriend, Rob in which he states that Jennifer would call or text him on her way to work. Then the story suddenly changed to her calling or texting him BEFORE she left for work.

I've been searching for an interview in which a police spokeswoman stated that they had video of Jennifer's car being driven. I'll post it as soon as I find it.

One other thought. Jennifer attending UCF and they do have their own police. I wonder if she became friendly with any of the officers or if any of them had a "crush" on her. I'll see if I can find a picture of their uniforms as well.

Re: Corrections officer.....

Makes me wonder if there's not more to the whole whole playing cards with Jennifer's face being destributed at the jail came about. Another hmmmmmmmmmmm...........
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Sparta



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember that interview with the boyfriend Rob and I think her parents there too. It was on Greta or Nancy Grace or something. It was weird how the daily morning phone call to her boyfriend Rob was on her way to work and then then the host concluded it was BEFORE she left for work. They should've cleared that up. It could be very important if she called him before leaving for work every morning (and Rob would know the answer to this) then it would take the case in a whole other direction. However remember this may not have been an ordinary morning for Jennifer. maresy you mentioned she had a meeting that morning? Do you know if it was supposed to be before work? Also she had to mail the phone. I think she left earlier than normal and she wouldn't have called Rob that early. Because of the unusual circumstances of that morning (cell phone package, meeting with boss) the usual time and place of when she called Rob may not be as critical. I think it's a moot point anyway as there was probably no set pattern as to when she called him, maybe on the way to work sometimes, maybe before she left for home while eating breakfast, whatever. It'd be nice to know for sure though.

excellent point about the playing cards. I hadn't thought of how that might fit in with our jail scenario.

I have thought about what kind of security UCF employs. It'd be interesting to see what their security guards uniforms are like and if they carry tasers and/or batons. And if any of Jennifer's friends from high school or UCF went into law enforcement. Or even just acquaintances of hers.

And yeah I think it's a high probability the cops have security camera footage of her car being driven. From what we've pieced together here and the fact that there have been rumors of this for quite a while now....remember there were rumors the cops had video footage of her car being parked and it turned out to be true.
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Sparta



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's a great picture of the Corrections Officer patch

http://www.correctional-patches.com/city-county/fl_orange_co_corrections_dept_black_brd.jpg
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9218
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Sparta, that's way better than what I had. I'll post it right now along with the other badges below photo three on Blowup of Jennifer Kesse person of interest / suspect.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9218
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted it, and unfortunately, the Corrections Patch does not match. It has a rounded top and ovalled bottom.

The traditional deputy sheriff badge that I posted directly below the photo is an exact match. It is not the shape of the Orange County (and all Florida counties) shoulder patch, and I don't know if there are any Orange County law enforcement agencies that match it.

I did see that it matched DoD badges. I saw Navy, Coast Guard, and DoD labels on the badges, and the uniform matches regulation Air Force bike patrol unform based on Air Force regulations I found in a search.

It might be surplus military worn by an imposter. Also we need to see what bike patrol uniforms and patches look like for Disney. I know they have bike patrol, they've been in the news as I search on Orange County bike patrol.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9218
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although the shoulder patch outline in photo three is that of the traditional deputy sheriff, not the Orange County Sheriff patch, my question of whether Orange County Sheriff's Office (ocso) has a bike patrol has been answered.

http://www.ocso.com/LinkClick.aspx?link=Policies%2F04.0.pdf&tabid=233&mid=1824

ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE SPECIAL ORDER
ALL BIKE PATROL PERSONNEL
July 16, 2007

1. Purpose
The purpose of this policy is to establish the responsibilities and training of a Bike Patrol deputy and outline the specifications, care, and operational use of the law enforcement mountain bike and related equipment.

2. Definitions
A. Bike Patrol Deputy a deputy assigned full-time to Sector V TOPS or a bike certified deputy assigned to the East/West Side Tactical Units.


I hadn't thought of this. Transporting the bike on a car:

6. When transporting bikes on motor vehicles, the issued bike rack must be used. Bikes shall be properly secured to prevent damage to bikes and vehicles.

Also:

Uniforms and Accessories
1. Personnel assigned to bike patrol shall wear agency approved uniforms. No personally owned accessories may be worn without approval of the Bike Patrol manager.

2. Uniform apparel or equipment shall not be tested without the prior approval of the Bike Patrol manager.

3. Any request to change the issued uniforms and/or equipment shall be forwarded in writing to the Material Control/Supply Manager via the Bike Patrol Manager.


No mention of what uniforms and equipment are agency approved. We'll have to determine that next.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9218
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As we look for matching uniform and equipment worn by the suspect, I wanted to clarify the location of the holster apparatus that I have been referring to.

In the sixth image down in the suspect blowup thread, below the biking shoe, is a blowup of photo two. There's lots of features blown up to great detail in that image, but here are the features of the holster that need matched.

In the second fence opening from the left is the POI's head. Below his head is a long fence opening with a gate lock partway down.

Look at the lower left corner of the gate lock. In between that corner and the fence rail to the left is the belt connector of the holster. Note that it is a rectangle that has some depth from the belt.

I had described it before as having a hollow center, however after finding and posting the Don Hume Tactical Thigh holster four images below that, I see that that belt connector has a smooth interior surface which would probably gives the black hollow interior look of this rectangle.

Back to image six, at the bottom right corner of the rectangle is a circular piece of the strap connection. There is a similar circular piece directly below the belt connector on the Don Hume holster. I do not know if that circular piece on the Don Hume pulls out from underneath, but this one does as pictured on the suspect's holster.

In all the catalog pictures, the drop down strap connector for the holster drops straight down from the duty belt to the holster, but in this POI picture the holster is strapped to the thigh more as forward on the leg as it can go from the belt connector.

This causes the 45 degree angle from the belt connector down and forward to the top of the holster, pulling the ring portion forward out from underneath the belt connector. There is then a short stretch of narrow strap to the top of the holster.

One feature that I haven't found anywhere is that the sideways V strap to the left of the holster joins with the top of the sideways V on the drop down strap and the bottom of the sideways V near the top of the holster. Only one strap continues on from the right side of the holster, at the level of the bottom of the sideways V.

Another feature I haven't found is that a second strap running across from left to right is directly below the bottom sideways V and strap to the right. In catalog pictures, the second strap is well below the top leg strap when there two straps, including the Don Hume holster.

The first strap on the Don Hume is at the right height near the top of the holster, but it is not shown if the end of that strap can end in a sideways V. It might be a modification for more stability for the way this suspect is wearing his drop down holster.

Also there is a lot of talk in the catalogs of adjustable straps. I don't know if that includes being able to adjust where they are on the holster to for example move the lower one up close to the top one.

Then there is the shape of the holster. This is the right shape for a number of holsters, including the Don Hume. This suspect's holster does not appear to have the shape of the bulge on the left side of the Don Hume holster, but the white light obscures much of that portion of the holster. But the top, right side, and bottom match many types of taser holsters such as the pictured Don Hume.

There are three things that are not present in this picture. Many holsters have a flap to wear over the Taser. There is no flap on the suspect's holster. You can see it rises level on both sides and stays relatively pointed. as in the Don Hume and other holsters of this type. The ones with flaps are wide at the top where the flap is.

Another thing seen on many catalog pictures is a double cartridge extension to the right side of the holster. This does not have that forward cartridge extension. It is optional on many holsters, possibly including being available for this one. But as far as shape goes it is like the pictured Don Hume with no drop down cartidge or forward double cartridge extension.

Lastly is the taser itself. Is the holster holding a taser gun? I don't think so. It does not appear to me that there is anything in the holster. There would be a prominent handle sticking out to the left at the top where the sideways V and lower straps are seen.

However, we saw in photo one that the suspect's hand is waist high and back a little, and grasping an elongated object about the size of a stun gun or Taser which is mostly obscured by a fence rail.

Why he is walking away from Jennifer's car with taser drawn I don't know, but the images of the held object in photo one and empty holster in photo two are consistent with a drawn weapon.

If we can match that holster, we'll have a good idea what that weapon is.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9218
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found several comments from professionals that talk about options for wearing a Taser, and in particular I was looking for anything related to bike patrol. I'll excerpt some relevant comments here:

http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9125.html

We're getting the newer X26 model, with it's improved function against heavy clothing. (according the publicity, anyway) Supposedly arcs through clothing and the disabling pulse travels through the arc....The big problem I forsee is actually carrying the thing; most of our belt space is taken up already.


I understand a lot of departments use a drop leg holster to get around the belt space issue.


We do a lot of bike patrol, and the "tactical" leg holster would be unweildy at best.
We're going with a rigid "cross-draw" rig, which by order we must carry on the opposite side from the firearm. They claim there are a few cases of suspects getting "Glocked" instead of Tasered.


The local campus police here carry the tasers in the drop leg holsters.



http://forums.officer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-33375.html

Anyone have opions or done research on this? We are looking at getting Tasers at my agency. I am trying to swing the Chief for thigh holsters on the weak side but I think he is trying for cross draw with strong side. I have found some cons on the web for the cross draw as far as arm pins, inablility to transition for lethal, etc.....any other things out there to help me out?


Thigh holsters are a lot more annoying than you may think- especially if you're going to wear them a whole shift. For a taser, esp the X-26, I would go with a cross draw.


My department has no official requirement for how they are to be carried. The X's seem to all be carried crossdraw, the M's all seem to be carried in thigh holsters.
A friend's department requires Blade-Tech crossdraws while a neighboring department uses a mixture of Blackhawk thigh and chest mounted shoulder holsters. Personally, I'd prefer the shoulder system if I could get it approved.


How about weak/support side regular draw. You should be able to draw and fire left handed from 21ft. Then your strong side is free to transition to lethal if needed. Less likely to draw your firearm when you meant to draw your taser. Especially if by thigh holster, you mean strong side thigh holster. I strongly recommend against that. If you want a thigh holster to look cool, get a weak side one.
I actually use the weak hand draw. Not only is it more comfortable than a cross draw, but it frees up your strong hand for other tasks.


I wear one daily and deploy it from the weak side as well. I currently use the thigh holster but cant say that I like it. It is the only approved holster for now. I find that it is somewhat cumbersome when on patrol with most of the time spent getting in and out of a vehicle. I have heard that the plastic belt holster that comes with it is unreliable and breaks eaisly, which is why we cant use it. Blade tech has one that I was thinking of trying out.


Not everyone is going to be able to fit a crossdraw taser on their duty belt. Most will, however, be able to wear a thigh holster, especially is the holster is attached by a snap link rather than a fastex buckle.
That said, I would give people the option of crossdraw on the belt as long as they don't remove any required equipment.
Most of our tasers are M-26's worn in Richard Cowell Company thigh holsters. We mandate support side carry, but give the option of straight draw or cross draw. I personally prefer a straight draw.

end quote

Here is a link to the Richard Cowell Company thigh holster mentioned:
http://www.richardcowell.com/Taser_X26_Flier.pdf

It is not our guy. The Don Hume is the closest I've found so far, but I hadn't seen the Richard Cowell until it was mentioned and I searched for it, so we could stumble across the match just like that.

rd
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Sparta



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great find. the photo is really good even though it's not our guy. it shows the holster hanging down from the belt, that type. i wouldn't have known those existed.

that one seems to have pouches for extra ammo. I don't see that in the suspect phtoos.
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