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DID OTIS THOMAS LIE?

 
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:57 am    Post subject: DID OTIS THOMAS LIE? Reply with quote

rd I know that you have done a lot of work on the Otis Thomas story, but I did not research any of your work here. I just thought that maybe we could look at a new angle.

Did Otis Thomas lie? When it seems as if many angles of the Chandra Levy murder case have been looked at, it also seems as if some angles of the case were not looked at, very closely at least.

When did Otis Thomas lie? Well, according to the FBI, or someone, he lied when he told his original story to Susan Levy in the Levy garden, the story about Thomas's daughter possibly having an affair with Congressman Gary Condit about 8 years previously. Also we know that Thomas said that he lied, lied to the press and to the public, and to the world. So we know that Thomas lied, but when did he lie? Did Thomas lie originally to Susan Levy, or did Thomas lie when he said that he had lied the first time?

That looks like a case of hearsay evidence. Someone says that Thomas lied, and that automatically makes him a liar. Yes, it is apparent that Thomas did lie, but which of his statements was a lie, when he told Susan Levy his story or when he told the world that he lied?

Otis Thomas appears to be a good person. He appears to have cooperated with those who tried to get information from him. Thomas looks like an honest person, a part time gardener, and a Pentecostal preacher. Why could Thomas not now be given a lie detector test to get more scientific evidence as to when he lied? Thomas might agree to such a test if it were given by the right people, but has anyone asked him?

Thomas and his family appear to have been threatened when his story was first made public. Who has the legal right to make such threats? No one. Are we going to be ruled by crazies who threaten people over the telephone, or are we going to be ruled by written laws and courtroom procedure?


benn, Hallelujah
and a Hallelujah also for Otis Thomas. He must have suffered much after being threatened by crazies.

We do have some differences of opinion here on the JusticeForChandra message board, and we might get better replies, or suggestions right on this messageboard.

Anyway the question is not answered as to when Thomas lied. Maybe someone here has some better suggestions here than I do, but a lie detector test taken by Thomas might clear some of the information up a little.

So I will just end here by saying that Otis Thomas lied, but when did he lie?

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

benn, that's a good question. I did not assume in Murder on a Horse Trail when OC Thomas had lied. In chapter Exposed, I ask many questions about the story. The answers are not clearcut, but OC would be able to answer them.

However, there has never been any indication in interviews that anyone has the slightest interest in getting answers to those questions. My premise has been that even if OC lied, Chandra still asked Condit about it and disappeared shortly afterward.

Still, I find the embellishments of an original impromptu story pruning roses, such as later telephoned threats, and the number of investigators and weeks he confirmed his story, tears and all, to be far more than one innocent supportive story to a friend that he couldn't dig himself out of.

I just don't believe the lie about the lies.

Let's get some more thoughts on this. I will add more from questions I raise in Murder on a Horse Trail.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd I accidently got this post onto two messages. I was looking for the other message, but I thought maybe it had disappeared. I do not think any harm has been done.

I am not going to try to bring up too much in any one message here. I find it strange that the Forensic scientists who were standing by to look at the remains of Chandra did not get interested in the Otis Thomas story.

Here is the main point that I am going to mention in this message. I saw and/or heard a Larry King Live show dating back to 2001. I forget who was being interviewed by King, but the program could probably be found, if finding it becomes necessary.

At least one of the people being interviewed was one of Condit's staff members. I will paraphrase what was said by this staff member, "The lawn care guy, A Love child."

I think I will have to look this quote up if it does not get destroyed. The problem of destroying the interview is that there are probably too many copies out. Too bad for any destroyers.

Why would a Congressional Staff Member call anyone A lawn care guy? Does not the White House in Washington, D.C. have lawns around it? And as for a Love Child, who would use such a term? There are no Love Children, or Illegitimate children. There are only illigitimate parents.

That is all I will say in this message.
benn
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am still struggling on here. No one else has done it, solved the Chandra Levy case, so maybe we here on this board have to do it.

I will try to put in some good words here about Otis Thomas, from what we know of him from the media reports. That is the only way that I
know him--from the media.

Well Otis did part time gardening work for the Levys. That certainly can not be held against him. They must have liked his gardening
because they kept him as a gardener.

That might be contrasted with the staff member from Condit's Congressional staff who referred to Thomas as "that lawn care guy," on a Larry Kind Live show, probably done in 2001. I have not looked for the exact transcript quote yet.

I do not know anything about Thomas's church except I believe that it is Pentecostal. I am a Christian but not exactly a Pentecost, but differences in denominations should not keep Christians completely apart that I could hold Thomas's church membership against him.

Contrast that with maybe the opinion of a non cristian news reporter, or of a non christian law enforcement official. We have to look closely at all opinions from the media to try to see from what source they are coming from.

To the best of my knowledge Thomas was not asked by anyone to take a Polygraph test. If anyone knows of a lie detector test that Thomas took please speak out. Did anyone ask him to take a lie detector test? If anyone did ask Thomas to take a lie detector test we do not see that request, or the lie detector, showing up in Google.

That is enough for this post. I will post more later. Perhaps I should try to contact Thomas via email, or postal mail, but at the present I do
not know how to do that.

benn
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe there are some Christian news people, at any level, who would like to get involved in this. Here is a chance to speak out for what you say that you stand for.

Myself, this has given me an idea to search old copies of the Christian Scientist Monitor to see what it has reported about Otis Thomas in the past. The Monitor has some reputation as a newspaper. If they have written enough about Thomas I will try to contact them.

The only people who have ran out of ideas are people who do not want to find any ideas.

Praise God.
benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question about the lie detector test. In fact, I will need to research that. I know he cooperated fully with the FBI. I would be surprised if they didn't give him one. And now I am wondering if they did, and what was the outcome?

Or if he wasn't given one, why?

Remember, the FBI talked to him for a good six weeks along with the Washington Post and Modesto Bee before he "confessed" when he was outed by the news media and his daughter fled in fear.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six weeks before Thomas "confessed." That does not sound very realistic to me. I don't remember that Thomas ever had a lawyer either, or was ever offered a lawyer.

I looked a little at the Christian Science Monitor, but there were not many hits, and mostly non related. I guess that is the kind of news that the Monitor does not like to publish. They also do not give cigarettes and alcohol much publicity either.

My mother's family, the women at least, got involved in Christian Science in the early 1900s. Just a couple of years ago I found out how my grandmother, my mother's mother, had became a Christian Scientist. I learned this from one of my mother's last two living sisters.

(I am adding some of this in because we can not use just casual tactics here. We must give the "other side" (the can't solve the case side) all of the problems that we can give them.)

My grandmother belonged to the Babtist church in the early 1900s. Then some sickness came along and my mother's mother and all of her children who had been born came down with a communicable disease. In those days that meant a quaranteen for the family. My grandmother and her family could not leave the premises of the house where they were living.

Where was my grandfather? Well, he was a produce man. I don't know all of the details, but he would pick up vegetables on famrs and take them to market. My mother's father had a truck of some kind. When my mother and all the rest of their family got sick my grandfather was away from home for a few days, delivering produce to market.

This set of circumstqnces is part of the reason that my mother's family became Christian Scientists. My grandmother did not have enough food in the house to last until my grandfather arrived home with more food. My grandmother had lots of vegetables but no other kind of food.

So I guess that she asked anyone whom she could see and talk to in her neighborhood (that is without leaving the premises of their house), but no one would deliver groceries to my grandmother's house.

So this is how a Christian Scientist neighbor and the Christian Science church came into the picture. The Christian Science neighbor passed by where my grandmother was living, and my grandmother asked him if he could bring her family some groceries.

Well, the Christian Scientist said yes. He was not afraid of any communicable diseases. That was the start of my mother's family becoming Christian Scientists.

All of this is not necessary to solve the Chandra Levy case, but I think we should leave no stone unturned in trying to solve the case.

Maybe someone from some church will read the messages here and help to solve this case.

benn
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Rainbow



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 866
Location: THE LEFT COAST

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:23 am    Post subject: Pentecostal Newspaper Article Reply with quote

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." Luke 19:10

Dear Benn,
I found an article called "Looking for the Lost" written during the "disappearance" of Chandra Levy by Dr. George Wood, Secretary General of the Assemblies of God Church of America.

Go to: www.usmissions.ag.org and Search: Chandra Levy

Nothing came up on the site when I searched Otis Thomas

P.S. Coincidentally, the article mentions the name of a former "Assistant Director of Chaplains" to the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
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fallout



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 566
Location: The Great NorthEast

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Benn,

I think you should try to contact Mr. Thomas as one Christian to another. Please see my post in the other section on Chandra. I agree with you that he might have fibbed to Mrs. Levy and then, when the world came to watch, he got caught. But I think he had a good purpose in fibbing: Basically, to say 'I know what you mean. I have a daughter too'. Speaking in figures of speech is like speaking in tongues. And he is a Pentacostal!

All the Best to you,

James
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 1173
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benn:

The one thing which I've always thought, it is really neither here nor there whether Ottis is telling the truth or not, what did happen is that Mrs. Levy told Chandra, and Chandra told Condit. Condit would not have taken kindly to this, and it seems as though Chandra and Condit's relationship ended because of this, and Chandra was a liability to have as a girlfriend ...???!!!

So it is really a mute point if Condit did hang with his daughter, we absolutely know for sure that Susan Levy told Chandra, and we know that Chandra told Condit, at least this is what Chandra told her Mother that she had told Condit....

It is really insignificant if the story is true, what is relevant is that Chandra was to keep her mouth shut about the relationship, and she broke the cardinal rule and talked out of school per se... We already know that Condit could not keep his pants up per se, and that he has had a string of women during his married life, and likely continues to be unfaithful...

Take care, kate

p.s. it is odd that Ottis daughter would not speak to Susan Levy when she went to her door, this seems very mean spirited...if her father lied, it is not her fault, but one would think that under the circumstances that Susan's daughter was missing that she would've been more sympathic to Susan, and might have shared with her that he was a compulsive liar or whatever...odd that Jennifer Thomas would not talk to Susan...?

Odd too how compelling the FBI found this, one would have thought that they would have given Ottis a lie detector test....they interviewed him at length more than once...Odd!
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A vision sent me on the path of seeking justice for Chandra, nothing I've seen in print to date has diminished the vividness but only served to reaffirm the validity of this vision.
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peripeteia wrote:
Benn:

The one thing which I've always thought, it is really neither here nor there whether Ottis is telling the truth or not, what did happen is that Mrs. Levy told Chandra, and Chandra told Condit. Condit would not have taken kindly to this, and it seems as though Chandra and Condit's relationship ended because of this, and Chandra was a liability to have as a girlfriend ...???!!!

So it is really a mute point if Condit did hang with his daughter, we absolutely know for sure that Susan Levy told Chandra, and we know that Chandra told Condit, at least this is what Chandra told her Mother that she had told Condit....

It is really insignificant if the story is true, what is relevant is that Chandra was to keep her mouth shut about the relationship, and she broke the cardinal rule and talked out of school per se... We already know that Condit could not keep his pants up per se, and that he has had a string of women during his married life, and likely continues to be unfaithful...

Take care, kate

p.s. it is odd that Ottis daughter would not speak to Susan Levy when she went to her door, this seems very mean spirited...if her father lied, it is not her fault, but one would think that under the circumstances that Susan's daughter was missing that she would've been more sympathic to Susan, and might have shared with her that he was a compulsive liar or whatever...odd that Jennifer Thomas would not talk to Susan...?

Odd too how compelling the FBI found this, one would have thought that they would have given Ottis a lie detector test....they interviewed him at length more than once...Odd!



Hello kate. I read your message here about a week ago, but I could bit remember my sign in name or my password. Thanks to rd I saw his email to me hare today giving me a new password. My abcense here mostly started when I signed up for a DSL Internet Provider. That worked a few months, and I think I sent a few messages here, which is the way rd was able to send me an email.

Kate I agree on most of what you said in your message. I will see if I can get it in front of me in order to answer a little more than that. All of these missing person cases are different, and still they are much the same. I have been mostly writing about one crime here, but all of these crimes are in some way related.

Otis Thomas was not the important person in the episode of his story to Susan Levy, but what happened publicly certainly seemed to have happened whether Thomas's story was true or not.

Thomas seemed to be the fall person for law enforcement. No one seemed to really want to find a suspect and Thomas's "lie" gave them all a way out.

That might get me into another field or two here, maybe religion, and politics. It is my thought that children are not being taught enough about what to do and not to do by their parents, their elders, and their teachers. Growibg up is a big event, and it takes a lot of learning, and a lot of good teaching.

King Solomon wrote about 3000 years ago, in the Bible: "Train up a child in the way that he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it.'

I might have a sentence or two more to say about that, but I will give my poor typing hands a rest right now.

.benn
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, all, I will stick my neck out again, even though it is sometimes stiff from arthritis. A little joint medicine is good for arthritis.

Well, I can lump politics and religion together in this message. I phoned the Governor of California this week, for me that is only a local call.

My phone call was very well anticipated, after all a Southern California Christian TV network was asking listeners to phone the Governor. I forget the sequence, it was all done by my touchtone phone. One key told the Governor's Office what the call was about. The second key told the Governor that I wanted him to veto a bill that the California Legislature has passed.

I have not read all of the written language involved. This bill is directly pointed at what the majority of the California Legislature does not want this Christian TV Network to be able to do. I am giving out infomration now that the Christian TV network was giving out. All of the Repulicans voted against the bill, but the bill won by one vote. What a cliffhanger.

What this bill will do, if approved by the Governor is to prevent the Christian TV station from buying a TV station in Southern California from a school that wants to sell the station. The Christian Network bid on the station and had the high bid. Someone contested the Network being able to buy the tv station, and the case went to court. The Christian Network seems to have won the case on all levels on the state judiciary in California, so somehow the California wrote another bill to over-ride the bill that the courts had already voted against.

Who knows, I don't, maybe by now the Governor has signed the bill, which prevents the Christian Network from buying the tv station that they were high bidders on.

Who knows? Maybe this will all go through the courts again. Perils of Pauline.

benn
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