www.justiceforchandra.com Forum Index www.justiceforchandra.com
Justice for Chandra Levy and missing women
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

THS Investigates
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.justiceforchandra.com Forum Index -> Chandra Levy and missing women
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LJ



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: THS Investigates Reply with quote

This is to rd. Do you see any connection that this is a serial killer to these three girls? I don't and on this show Cmdr. Jack Barrett, I felt, was one of the most incompetent people, almost embarrassing to believe he's a policeman. I haven't been able to get this case out of my mind, Chandra Levy, since the beginning when I heard about it (having been a former police officer) and it haunts me that none of the investigative team seems to REALLY want answers. I think Otis Thomas' daughter could really shed some light on things as well. Reading your book makes me want to travel to DC to retrace the steps, even knowing that it is futile. I would love to be able to help the families find closure. Obviously, the forensic evidence is gone. They won't be able to find anything that way after all this time. The other thing that I've wondered is Condit as well as anybody else in Congress probably have their own thugs as well. Was Condit's brother in California at the time? Walsh is trying to say that have the same MO. Not true. Joyce Chiang appears to have had someone stalking her and the writing on the wall, although not proven to be to her, there is strong reference that it is written to her. Not left at the other two crime scenes. They also don't expose what the turmoil was for her at her place of employment (huge lead still uncovered). The families should be kept abreast of what is going on yet every step of the way, they've had to go looking for their own answers (way to unprofessional for any police agency let alone with the FBI as well). If it was serial, then to me it would be someone who is working with these ladies like Condit. I just can't believe this whole investigation, not just one thing but the whole chain of events. No way a police department could be this stupid unless they were covering up information. The only way to solve something like this would be if someone went undercover. LJ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LJ wrote, Was Condit's brother in California at the time?

Gary Condit's brother, Darrell, lived in Florida and was working for a construction company at the time - but was AWOL at the time of the disappearance and came back to work afterward with a limp. The other brother, Burl, has lived around Modesto, California, for quite a long time, as far as I know. But I don't think any of the investigators checked his whereabouts at the time of the disappearance.

LJ also wrote, Obviously, the forensic evidence is gone.

With the expanse of time and exposure to the elements between the disappearance and discovery of the remains, this would seem to be the case. But because the authorities reneged on turning the remains over to Chandra's family when the 3 experts (Wecht, Lee and Baden) offered their services to the family, it seems possible that some evidence has been suppressed. The experts were only allowed a superficial viewing of the remains and did not have the opportunity to examine markings on the teeth and carry out physical tests on, if memory serves, the teeth and the hyoid (maybe other tests as well). Many months later, the remains were finally turned over to the family and were quickly transported to California and buried - it seems the experts never did carry out the tests they wanted to do.

The timeline about the remains is:

May 22/02...Remains found
May 23/02...Remains ID'd as Chandra's
July/02........Announcement that remains are being turned over to relatives
..................Offer of help from 3 experts (Lee, Wecht & Baden)
..................Remains are not turned over to relatives, after all
May/03.......Remains are finally given to family, without being examined by the experts


Last edited by jane on Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What gets me is that the DC Medical Examiner, Arden, who stopped these world renowned forensic investigators from examining Chandra's remains is a frequent expert guest on Nancy Grace unless I am mistaken, but I believe they identifty him as the former DC Medical Examiner.

He has never accounted for his cover up and denial of access to independent experts. Instead of asking him to account for the unaccountable, he gets puffball questions about what happens to a body after death, as if maybe the audience has missed the last several years of CSI tv.

I have never seen any of the three experts on at the same time with him, though they are also frequently guests. Maybe Nancy gets him when the real experts are unavailable, I don't know. In any case he has only proven expert at preventing people who were actually looking for answers from doing so. There must be a reason.

rd
_________________
ralph@ee.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi LJ, good questions, and welcome. In Murder on a Horse Trail Barrett figures prominently in some of the more incompetent quotes about Chandra's case. I'm not surprised it was so noticeable in this show.

I've never seen anything that ever linked Condit to Christine M. But the three murders of these young California ethnic interns around Dupont Circle in 1998, five months later in 1999, and then a little over two years later in 2001, all disappearing and murdered under similar conditions has to be considered possible victims of a serial murderer with similar federal government connections to California interns.

Looking at Christine's murder on Google just now, I see she also was found on National Park Service land. Maybe most wooded areas in DC are and that doesn't mean anything. But she was raped and beaten to death while supposedly walking through woods just as Chandra was said to have been.

One can say a young woman walking through woods will get attacked, raped, beaten to death, and their unclothed bodies left to disappear, or one could just as well say that a serial murderer ran in the circles of these former interns, Dupont Circle for one, whose MO is or was to leave them hidden in public parks to appear as if they wandered there and attacked by "vagrants", an hypothesis suggested in both Chandra's and Christine's cases.

The "vagrants" in Joyce's case were theorized to be of the street kind. None of it is believable to me whatsoever. What I do believe is that there are very strong links in the murders of these three young women, and Condit is strongly linked to two of them.

You will find my retracing of what it would take for Chandra to get to where she was found on the side of a mountain in chapter Horse Trail. I too wanted to write an accounting of retracing those steps, steps that having taken them I do not believe ever took place when Chandra disappeared.

rd
_________________
ralph@ee.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have said hi and welcome, LJ!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LJ



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:34 am    Post subject: THS INVESTIGATES Reply with quote

Thanks for saying hi and welcoming me. Right from day one my belief with the evidence shown was that Chandra was called, pickup up and taken somewhere,killed and dropped off to the site where she was found. It makes me so angry when I here Barrett suggest suicide. The fact police never had the camaras examined is again unfathomable because I'm sure there was so much evidence there. I really wish someone could get a statement from Thomas Otis's daughter (I'm so curious as to what her terrifying fear is about). They also state that after investigating Condit's apartment, that he was not and is not a suspect. Excuse me, Condit was a suspect right from day one - the minute they heard that he had a possible relationship with Chandra makes that man a suspect (in any police investigation). That's the part that starts to smell like a cover-up. It seems that this only occurs in Washington (ie Clinton - you can say anything, even the most ludicrous thing and twist it into sounding normal). I was a cop for seven years and resigned wanting to explore other aspects of the things I love. Yet, loved being a cop and the investigation. As much as cops have to go on facts, there is still an element of instinct and the people on this site are far more qualified to be investigators than anyone who is a cop. Arden, on the show, said the cops were in the room with him and there was great pressure to find out the identity of the body (what were the cops doing in the room to begin with). No offence but the fact that the families private investigators have no more information also concerns me. There is no way that the Levy's (or any other family) should not have someone paying for the murder. Even in the Joyce Chiang case, they say there was some kind of tension/undisclosed conflict that she was under investigation at work (possible involvement with someone, they eluded to )and yet there family doesn't know more about this? Their family should be able to push for this information, especially since there daughter, sister is dead. This is key information that is not being provided which again is a clue to her disappearance. This places where these girls are working, prisons etc seem to have to much power and clout with very ambigious reasons for doing things and should be sued. Anyway, these cases stink of wrongdoing and noone seems to be accountable. Barrett says that because of the botched investigation, the police department is going to have to live with that. Not good enough and they should not be the ones to determine that they will "just live with it". There should have been a huge internal investigations and once again a department held accountable and if Gary Condit is able to sue for libel because of his poor reputation that was destroyed (which he did himself) then the families should be able to sue for libel for the MURDER of their daughter and everyone that is withholding information and evidence. They should have every shed of evidence. If forensics can determine that this was Chandra Levy then they should be able to determine a few other things as well. Yet nothing is disclosed. I apologize for taking up so much space. Thanks for listening. My anger fuels about this case.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LJ



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: THS INVESTIGATES Reply with quote

rd: Where are my manners. First of all, Congratulations on a book that was soooo well written. The information that you gathered was incredible. Were or are you a cop? Unbelievable. Also, maybe this is different from living in the States (I'm Canadian) but one of the ways most crimes are solved is with witness statements completed. It's amazing that they didn't use Chandra's aunts statement with too much emphasis yet this is the way most cases are solved. I believe this is still one of the ways this case could be solved. Years ago while policing I investigated a case in which a lady who lived in the lower unit of a duplex) called police because she claimed that a man got into her apartment by a bedroom window, raped her and took her jewelry. Because of it being dark and there being a struggle she could not see anything about it (whether he was wearing a mask or any details about him)and then he left through her window. Afraid, she didn't call the police until the next day after she told her boyfriend, who was at the legion and didn't live with her. I was a constable at the time working with the detectives and asked to accompany them because they needed a female present in this type of investigation. After speaking with her we knocked on the unit upstairs to enquire if anyone heard anything. There were three people in the upper unit. A woman answered the door, her boyfriend (possible husband) was at their kitchen table and his brother was lying on the couch. The two in the kitchen were very talkative and shocked that this had occurred downstairs. The brother was sleeping on the couch. The detectives looked around the apartment a bit and then we left. When I did up my report and gave it to the detectives, the one detective handed it back to me saying that I was hinting in the direction of the brother sleeping on the couch as a possible suspect. I didn't believe that my writing had been that (yet possilby it was because I did believe him to be a suspect). I rewrote the report and they said it was better and I never heard another thing about it until about six months later when the brother turned himself in. The detective came to me and asked me why I had thought it was him (they had their theories that maybe the girl made it up to make her boyfriend jealous and that there was no rape - which could have been a possibility just as much as my belief was a possibility). The reason I had thought it was the guy lyingon the couch is because of his non actions (which when you are present and can witness first hand is information enough. Like how they say nonverbal communication can be just as telling if not more than verbal). When we got there he continued acting like he was sleeping even though I saw that he was awake. Never bothered to get off the couch from a lying position and when hearing what happened downstairs was indifferent (which the detectives said that could just be because he just woke up - which I don't believe he was ever sleeping). Anyway, my point being is I believe if the book was retraced interviewing people that were key and taking witness statements (but again being there to see their actions, mannerisms etc) then there is probably information that could help solve this case (information that cops withheld). Witness statements is the key convicting evidence in accidents therefore they should be the key convicting evidence (which would then put pressure on the forensic evidence to come forward). Any thoughts? Thanks for your time in reading this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LJ



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject: THS INVESTIGATES Reply with quote

One more thing. Any kind of witness statements would have to be done subtely. One would have to do it in a manner that doesn't inform police etc that are working on the case since they are hellbent on withholding information. Citizens are able to conduct their own investigation (as rd did with his masterpiece book). Speaking with neighbours etc. police said they never heard anything. I thing it should be examined again from impartial parties (not cops since they've turned up nothing).Just my thoughts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello LJ, and thanks for your thoughts. I want to think more about these recent comments here, but something just came to my mind that I might be able to express.

First though, we will soon be into April. April 2002 was the month when Geragos expressed the thought that Chandra might be found in May, and she was. We are near to May 1 again. What new could happen in May of this year? Geragos may believe in the Supernatural, but I do too. What I think is not often said about the Supernatural is that there is a good supernatural and there is a bad supernatural. A Good supernatural might want to help find Chandra's murderer, or murderers, but an Evil supernatural might want to do just the opposite, hide the identify of the murderer.

I will just throw something in here fast and then take a breather. I recently posted some messages here about a gopher trap solution to the Chandra Levy case. I left plenty of room for anyone else to work on the case from a gopher trap point of view. Chandra, with her youth and vitality, was a breath of fre4sh air emanating into someone's gopher hole tunnel system. The gopher or gopher could not allow the fresh air to expose the tunnel system, so Cjamdra had to be stopped from letting fresh air into the tunnel system of secrecy.

What occurred to me as I was writing about the gopher's tunnel system for the second or third time was that we do not know how many gophers there were or are. If it is good for someone who has commtted a crime to not tell anyone that he committed the crime it is even more important for him or her to not give away any of the names of any other possibly important people who might have belonged to the tunnel system, or who still belong to the4 tunnel system. Each additional member of the tunnel system should make it even more impo0rtant that the silence be masintained, especially if some well known names were involved

But if the Evil Supernatural can work to cover up the crime the Good Supernatural can also work to uncover the crime. Whose side zre we on, Good or Evil? Thanks LJ for reading some of my provocative thoughts.

(any strange letters or words here are not the result of the Supernaturl but only of my hasty writing here. Now I have to be on to other I things. I will edit the typos out later.)

benn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LJ



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: THS Investigates Reply with quote

Hi,
I'm not sure if I follow the gopher thing but I'm not suggesting you start with whom you believe is the murderer. I believe you start with the people closest to Chandra and possible witnesses. Getting close to a situation can oftentimes reveal a lot. rd, I was wondering if you were able to speak with the Levys. The impression I get is that they believe Condit has something to do with it. Are they the type of people to follow through with this until they have answers or have solved the crime of their daughter's death. Maybe it would be good to investigate the deaths of the other women as well. Oftentimes you end up in one case and things pop up pertinent to the other. All just thoughts. So much of me wants to go out to DC and retrace things just to get a real feel. Your book is fabulous but for me I have to be there and get a touch and feel kind of experience to grasp things. Has this forum ever thought of establishing a group that goes back and get witness statements etc. or establishes friendships with some of Chandra's friends to see if there is anything that can be picked up. Befriending people can often yield a great deal of information. I think in this particular case you have to be very careful since so many people are going to such great lengths to keep things from coming out. Any thoughts on this or am I just talking out of my you know what. Thanks again for listening LJ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the high marks you gave Murder on a Horse Trail, LJ, especially from someone who's done some investigations of their own.

Had I been able to get a publisher to put Murder on a Horse Trail out as a paperback, I would have been able to pursue this as an investigative writer, but I didn't have the name clout for them to suspend their rule against publishing on open cases as they did with the Martha Moxley and JonBenet Ramsey cases.

Maybe a terrific account from some people like Vince Flammini, Anne Marie Smith, Linda Zamsky, OC Thomas, and the Levys written by a top name journalist would rise to that level, and hopefully something like that is in the works, but no one would publish a book on Laci Peterson's disappearance until the day Scott was convicted. I'm afraid no one will make the effort to tell this story from insider's perspectives because it just won't be published.

I am not a cop or been in the field. I'm a computer programmer, and it took all the skill I have from a career of working with detail and logic to piece together what is known of Chandra's disappearance into a readable account, it is that complex.

Had I been able to get interviews it would have changed the nature of the book, and not for the better I think. Those interviews if they can be obtained really deserve a book with a different approach, a different take than I had, and depending on the approach could very well be published. I was not able to talk to the Levys nor any of the others. In many ways it made me work harder to figure out answers from what we had, and if not to ask better questions.

I hope you can take a trip and retrace some steps, LJ, and write about them here. We're too scattered to the winds to gather there. I know I'm too far away to be able to make it anymore, and pretty much the same with everybody else. James (fallout) was able to make some trips there and I illustrate the online Murder on a Horse Trail with some of his pictures.

It'd be nice to be able to add anything that sheds more light on the questions posed and unanswered about Chandra's disappearance.

rd
_________________
ralph@ee.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
LJ



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:11 am    Post subject: THS INVESTIGATES Reply with quote

rd, your book is truly a masterpiece. You self published it? When writing this type of book, a true story about the murder of a person, do you need the permission of the family to write it? Your attention to detail is impeccable. The way your mind works is better then any cops I've known. That's why it makes the Washington Police seem like the keystone cops; beyond imagination of your worst possible police officer. No one should feel safe in a city policed by these individuals. What made you write this book, besides the obvious that you want this case solved? The Levy's should be talking with you. To have someone invest so much into their daughter's case (the drive and determination it took you to write this book and the facts behind it)deserves the highest recognition. They should have hired you. I truly mean it. There should be more people out there in this world that go to the kind of lengths that you have yet there isn't. You are a unique and special individual. Thank you for writing this book. When I heard about this case I was wanting information since there seemed to be little being done. Somehow, and I can't remember how, I learned about this book. By studying your book, one has all the facts and information right at their fingertips so that you don't have to go online and be searching for years. The only other thing I've seen about this case was the other night, THS Investigaties. Once again. thank you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LJ wrote Are they [the Levys] the type of people to follow through with this until they have answers or have solved the crime of their daughter's death.

I get the feeling that the Levys have felt a need to pull back a little. I can only guess why. E.g. - a need to nurture each other and their son rather than putting their energies into trying to prod the authorities to do their jobs? - exhaustion from frustration at constantly running into the cover-up mentality of the authorities? - fear of retribution over prying at the cover-up? (in which case, they might not care for themselves, but would be concerned for their son's sake).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad it made a difference, LJ. Yes, I self published Murder on a Horse Trail. I did get it in front of editors at Random and a couple of paperback publishers, but they passed citing policy against publishing on open cases.

Obviously for me the whole point is that it is still an open case, so the only way anyone would ever see the facts and unanswered questions about Chandra's disappearance was to publish it myself.

But there's no low cost pocket paperback version for that, and after a year of trying to get it out in paperback I accepted that the ban on open cases wasn't going to let people have paperback access to this story. So I published Murder on a Horse Trail here for online access from the public, and I hope they like it as much as you did. :)

All I can say is that it is a powerful demonstration of online collaboration of many good people after Chandra disappeared. It directly reflects all that work, research, and caring thought that so many gave in trying to help, for months and even years. I just made sure that passion and attention to detail carried through.

I didn't need to get permission for anything in the book. The quotes are reprinted with fair use, and the rest are my thoughts and research. I attempted to contact most everyone in the book (except the Condits, where I already had a plethora of answers to deal with) to get addtional info and questions answered, but if anything from me ever got through to anybody, no one responded. Nor since.

Probably they have nothing to add anyway, and in any event lawyers reign, although they and everyone else in DC do nothing, as from the beginning.

rd
_________________
ralph@ee.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
fallout



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 566
Location: The Great NorthEast

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I finally taped and watched the THS Investigates:Chandra.. piece. Not a bad introduction to the case. But, is it possible that the scene depicted in the park actually showed the skeleton that had been found? I was distracted by the appearance of someone who I thought might be Sven Jones in a brief segment when it was pointed out to me that the 'discovery site' was being shown and there, in the ditch, were Chandra's remains.

I thought it was a re-creation .. But on furthur consideration, I thought...Why would they go to the trouble to re-create such a scene?
Can this information be measured? If it is not the remains then the idea of re-creating the crime scene in such a manner creates the very disturbing possibility that the crime is still being covered up by the 'guilty' and that they know somebody at 'E". Just a thought.

I await your opinion.

James
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.justiceforchandra.com Forum Index -> Chandra Levy and missing women All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group