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Jennifer Kesse, 24, missing from Orlando
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9235
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats your hypothetical night time event scenario?

I think , if she went out at night , it must be related to the mobile , but why the rush? Unless someone say , phoned her in some sort of distress or other issue ?


I would be interested in seeing whether the new shoes (which I'm sure she took on her trip and probably wore to work Monday) was found in her car or not. If not, it makes her leaving the condo after that 10 pm call oriented to being seen, even if briefly. Again that points to driving over to the mall and getting accosted in parking lot, which makes most sense to me.

I just would not be surprised she was getting rid of the phone to a mutual friend rather than dealing with shipping it to her brother's friend. Had he given her an address to ship to? It was a work phone. Did he give her his work address? What did he say to her besides requesting she overnight it to him? What did she say?

From long back, a poster close to the family (I don't know who) said she was in no hurry to send the phone back and disregarded the thought that she would do anything that evening about it. I'm not sure she would have been eager to tell anyone she was dumping the phone off on a mutual friend and it may have been a very last minute decision anyway.

My thinking is also influenced by the POI. You just keep seeing these cop imposters in the news through the years, in small print crime news. While I was working on these images there was one on a motocycle in Jacksonville that attempted to abduct a child waiting for a school bus. There was another one arrested in Kissimmee but that one was black. And I've written about my own experience in college where a student was pulled over by an imposter with a flashing light and abducted. I was helping on search teams when he was caught and confessed and took police to her shallow grave.

Times change, cell phones are ubiquitous and powerful, whatever someone tried to do now could be broadcasting on Facebook Live as far as they know, but someone got away with it in 2006.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I have often wondered why Jennifer's brother and his friend didn't just turn their vehicle around and go back to Orlando and pick-up the cell phone in person. If there really was an urgency to it that would make the most sense--it's really not that far a drive for two young guys.

You're absolutely right. It wouldn't take much.

I was just checking on some of my really older postings and I see where I got the "asked her to overnight it". WFTV reported that on Feb. 10, 2006. It's easy to word one way or the other, I just think that her actually suggesting it is much more indicative of her mindset on it than if he asked her to overnight it, even if she readily agreed.

This is also where the police said after being asked to overnight it, she is thought to have gone out looking for a roadside drop mailbox to send the "package". We've covered this in much detail. That makes such little sense it's like me trying to speculate on why she'd take the phone somewhere. Not much that makes sense.

So that brings me back to originally I looked for a 24 hour FedEx. I ended up thinking the FedEx Kinkos on Orange Blossom by a UCF campus, opening at 6 am, explained a lot of things. That was before I saw all the stuff about she would have shipped it from work, and of course before knowing about the phones going dead at 10:20 pm or so.

I still haven't, and I guess I never will, seen any corroborating details about why a few I guess who know her a lot better than any of us are very confident she was going to ship the phone from work. nothing like it was how she handled her packages, or she told someone Monday evening that's how she'd handle it, or there was a strong culture at work of office mates doing this, just nothing. Yet they were confident, but I don't know why.

And she may have decided to take it to a 24 hour FedEx. I remember checking on that at the time I was working on this, in 2007, and there was one not close but in the area. Looking now I see one on Sand Lake that is at bottom of John Young Pkwy. It's probably considered something she wouldn't do due to handling it at work, yet if she is like me and every situation that I know of she had to handle it outside of work, and she may have well decided to take care of it.

I don't know, but I know there isn't anything else that has more basis. At least I haven't heard it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would be more evident about Jennifer's abduction that we wouldn't need to conjecture if we didn't have the few facts we have from the ping study? I kind of think without that information even more conjectural possibilities are on the table.

I just meant without that hard info forcing us to deal with what happened at 10:20 pm we would not be doing it. We would be figuring out what went wrong the next morning.

But with the ping activity and phones going dead, no sign of activity in kitchen which is a long time to not have any sign of activity, neither her nor her car seen next morning by landscapers, there is literally nothing to indicate Jennifer's presence other than a damp shower, and interestingly this was 3 pm plus in the afternoon.

I realize that makes the previous evening less likely after that many hours, but if it's still damp all day into the afternoon what does that mean? Could the POI have used her shower before parking her car at HOTG?

Talk about being seen. That would be very risky, but perhaps he thought washing off in her shower was less risky than the higher possibility of Jennifer's hair etc. detected in his shower if it were examined? Maybe he needed to change clothes and couldn't be seen where he lived, where her car belonged at the Mosaic if seen.

I don't know, but a damp shower all day as the only sign of presence doesn't even make sense for an early morning shower.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't go out at night to ship a phone especially if I was leery of the area in which I lived.

If she used the phone as an alarm, how did she wake up that morning then? Wasn't the phone off since 10:40 pm?



The problem is most people have to deal with shipping something outside of work hours. People claiming Jennifer would ship from work when pressed how this works mostly don't stick around to answer the question. I've seen at least one response though that implies that a person would just put a package in the mailroom and say ship it, as if the company is shipping it.

That appears to be why the people sure she would ship from work don't want to talk about it.

I ask the simple question. Do any of these impressions that she would handle it from work come from knowing she has done it before, has said that's how she would handle it, or is known that office mates handled shipping personal items from work?

That has received a resounding crickets for 12 years now.

If no one has any clue as to how she would handle her personal shipping from work, then the reality is to deal with it as how you and I would handle it. For overnighting ( getting it into the system by 6 pm pickup), you have this late night at some 24 hour place, before going to work at places that open at 6am, lunch hour or a break from work if pretty close by, and after work if can get there well before 6 pm.

She had an important 11 am meeting at work so probably had a busy lunch hour planned, and she left Monday around 6 pm if I recall correctly so probably after work was not a candidate.

Taking care of it before work was what I thought until we find out the phones were disabled at 10:40 pm. All indications are that Jennifer left her condo wearing her heels and carrying both phones and wallet before 10:40 pm.

There are just no factual indicators for anything else. If there's any information to the contrary it would be helpful, although I'm not sure the heels being in her briefcase in the trunk changes much of anything (if the briefcase is in the trunk).

Actually the heels are a bit of a wrinkle, but at same time makes any involuntary exit from her condo much more unlikely,

The phone as alarm is also a major problem for any scenario where voluntarily turned her phone off or for example removed the battery and put it in a battery charger, which is what many of us did in that interval between only landlines and disposable-phones-R-US.

Well, for most people, I only had my landline disconnected a few months ago and still have a removeable battery cell phone, so I have operated phone wise like Jennifer all these years.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emphasis is on the overnight from work. That requires the Post Office in 2006 to either have pickups like FedEx and UPS do or to have the wherewithall to know that Post Office pickup would sort and route overnight packages quicker than other mail.

It also would require being able to determine what postage was required for this overnight delivery, how to obtain it and apply it at work.

I didn't have that wherewithall in 2006 and earlier. I am aware of the emphasis that Post Office has put on competitive services in recent years, I am aware of more online interaction being available, but I don't know how I would have known if possible and what would be required in 2006 and I don't know how Jennifer would have known any more about it.

My criteria is, did Jennifer overnight anything before and how did she do it? Did she mail stuff home and have a feel for how quickly that was handled, how much postage was required, how she obtained it and applied it, and possibly performed same action with knowledge Post Office would have it there "in a day or two".

We're still left with the indication that Jennifer was overpowered within minutes after saying good night to her boy friend and the two phones, her wallet, and keys went with her. The only thing different about the day she disappeared is that she had a phone left in her condo that she needed to get back to owner in a day or two. She routinely travelled from S. Florida back to Orlando after a weekend, as often as every other week, so that was not different.

The two phones disabled together so soon after her last phone call, with pings indicating movement, is a swift non-intrusive extrication in her own car that somehow brought both phones along that were systematically found and disabled as soon as away from the scene of abduction, or a random assault of a woman who had left her home with both phones with a systematic search and disablement of those phones in her car.

The abductor acted like an experienced abductor in either case.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth Prevails wrote: I know next to nothing about the type of business Jennifer worked for, but I watched that movie Greta mentioned in her special. So from that, I know that it was particularly hard hit in the 2009 recession.

That makes me wonder if some locations might have changed on a current Google map. Just a possibility, though.

Ohhh, maybe I'm thinking of the wrong thing about the DVD player. I didn't think it belonged in the car at all.

I thought it was the type of player that a person would hook-up to their television to put a CD in so they could watch a movie. It had belonged to Rob and he said it was almost new. I thought he strapped it in Jennifer's backseat via seat belts so it wouldn't fall on the floor or get damaged during the drive, but once she arrived with it in Orlando, it would need to be brought into her condo.

I thought it was something Rob probably intended to hook-up for her (to her television in her condo) on the next weekend he arrived for his weekend visit (as they alternated weekend visits).

I didn't even think it was usable inside a car.

So, yikes, I better scrap my thinking on that.



No, no, no, it's me that doesn't understand. I've heard this DVD player referred to since the beginning as still in the car and I thought it was something kept in the car to play CD's or something from DVD's, had no idea.

So this was something that bf sent with her on Monday for her condo? So this would be something else she might have gone out to the car for, especially after just talking to Rob? Holy cow.

She may very well have taken the friend's cell phone out with her as you were saying in an earlier post. If indeed there was the thing about having a drivers license in her pocket for ID then that's one explanation. It's also possible the abductor rendered her unconscious and went in and got a purse that would have ID for the car and her and it had the friend's cell phone in it.

I think the odds are very high that after talking to her bf she went out to her car to get something he sent with her. He might have said something about it getting stolen overnight. He of course would know that.

I didn't know what kind of environment her employment was in but when I looked at Google Map I routinely look at Street Map. It is a standalone building with Westgate Resorts sign out front. Not the sort of thing you establish in hard times. Very nice building, not an urban environment with business retail around it.

Sorry for giving you a scare about the DVD player! That really changes things. I can't imagine why that hasn't been suggestion number 1 from the beginning as to what happened to Jennifer.

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth Prevails wrote: I have heard that it would take at least 8 hours without a ping from a cell phone before a call would go directly to voice mail. Would you have any idea if this is correct? I have spent a fair amount of time Googling for the answer but can't find the magic words to bring up anything that might be related and able to confirm what I'm interested in.

Another reason I wanted to bring this to your attention is because if we go ahead eight hours from 10:40 pm, that brings us to 6:40 am.

If this is accurate, do you see it as any kind of backup support for the phones indicating their final event pings at 10:40 pm and Jennifer simply never having been in her condo on the morning of the 24th?



Certainly the narrative was about Jennifer calling on her way to work. But "before, when she wakes up" is also part of the narrative. If Rob clarifies to say that he usually never heard from Jennifer until after Jennifer was driving to work I will withdraw "when she wakes up" as a critical missing event Tuesday morning.

But my feel is that "when she wakes up" is based on a good morning text from Jennifer sometime after waking up while getting ready for work that didn't happen Tuesday morning.

The 8 hours comes from a policy per carrier on location ping, that is, with no other activity the phone will ping after this many hours to update location (that is, location of controlling tower).

Prior to that periodic ping, the carrier has only last contact information available. It would try to forward calls and texts to that tower. A call or text not received would put it into offline status. But with no activity it would take a missed scheduled location update to put it into offline status. Offline status is when calls go directlly to voice mail.

This is all based on my research and because it theoretically can vary greatly by carrier there are no hard and fast rules given. But 8 hours was given as an example of a periodic location update lacking any other activity, activity which would include movement and the resulting pings with towers even though there are no calls or texts involved.

By the way regarding research, there was no one or two sources of clear information to link to on this, as you found re: magic words. This is gleaned from dozens of searches over years on answers here or there on related questions or narrowly scoped articles. And it's all buried in an avalanche of stuff about tracking people.

I would also say this info is basically not relevant after smartphone apps because any app communication such as email checking is communications the same as a call or text in terms of establishing online. The info would be relevant to say what I had in 2006, a Motorola Razr, with nothing checking for updates, of which maybe a really barebones smartphone with no services enabled theoretically could behave similarly. Probably been a few years since a modern smartphone could be kept incommunicado.

So yes, Truth, the statement you quoted is true to my understanding and yes, there should have been at least a location update since 10:40 until going out to go to work between 7:30 and 8:00. And yes, that is yet one more critical missing event that says Jennifer was not leaving for work as normal on Tuesday morning.

Thanks for the insight, Truth.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take is that Jennifer took a shower Monday evening, before that 9:57 pm phone call. It was usual for her to discard those clothes on the floor according to an early comment from her mother in not exactly those words.

This was a normal looking scene for Jennifer to leave her condo and drive somewhere, however brief, it was just assumed that it occurred Tuesday morning to go to work.

I don't see anything unusual about this and unfortunately all indications to me are that she was assaulted and abducted a few minutes away from her condo, I would expect by the POI.

That doesn't help explain what happened to Jennifer or who the POI is but that's what it looks like. There is both getting the DVD player as a possible reason for going out to her car, and a promise to send the friend's phone back to him as a possible reason for driving somewhere, but all indications are she went back out to her car between 10 pm and when pings started, time unknown, alleged to end about 10:20 pm.

I just don't see anything unusual that would indicate staging in her condo. The randomness is up in the air, it could be someone stalking her who was outside when she went to her car, other than that it would be a random assault from someone who was looking for a target.

The POI images are the only insight we have into who that is.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, there's not enough basis to say she was getting ready to go out. There are a number of things that seem to be missing that are hard to account for without her going out to the car to drive somewhere close by, but finding out some it isn't missing could change that perception quickly.

The contact lenses are one. I would imagine if they had been in her condo, her family would have found them. If not taken out and switch to glasses during the evening, she surely would have removed them after the phone call, wouldn't she? But she could have gone out to the car to get the DVD player before she did that.

Drivers license. Is it possible she kept it in the car? That would be unusual and known by those close to her, wouldn't it? Also a wallet with bank cards and such are normally accounted for, and there's nothing that says her wallet was found or is missing? If not found by family in her condo, then whether it was found in the car or not, it was taken to the car.

I think it would be clear that the family didn't find her wallet back in her condo, part of the expectations she was going to work. In fact, that's part of what makes this night disappearance so difficult, it resembled going out for the day to her family.

Her new heels is another. Doesn't indicate a whole lot to me if was in a briefcase that was in the car, but missing is really hard to explain.

Friend's phone. We've suggested as a stretch that she took the phone out to the car when going to get the DVD player, otherwise, gets difficult to explain that missing. One question. Was there any discussion between Jennifer and the owner about shutting it down? I recall seeing something about her telling him there were some calls. Did she keep it on after talking to him? Was there anything said about powering it off to send it to him, maybe assumed, but anything actually said?

If dealing with it in any way such as taking it out to her car while getting the DVD player, I would expect she would based on her conversation with their friend the owner to power it off at that time or keep it on, for whatever reason that was, but I wouldn't be surprised that the phone would be powered off by Jennifer by 10:20 pm if she hadn't powered it off before. Maybe the owner (Travis I think) has shed light on that?

Security apparatus. I don't know the details of this case like I do Chandra Levy's details of her disappearance, but like with Chandra, I think I read that a security device Jennifer would normally carry was left in her condo? Maybe she had more than one and was actually carrying her normal security on a key ring and that is unsure and not known? Stepping outside for any reason would be unusual if she didn't have her keys and security device (pepper spray, etc.) with her. Again missing or not missing makes a lot of difference.

Shower. I agree, could have been short of a shower. Could have been shaving legs, I don't know, but not like a shower I'm going out thing. Maybe washing hair? Or maybe a shower even to drive to take a short drive to take the phone somewhere. But I wouldn't characterize as getting ready to go out based on what we know.

Also, if Jennifer didn't drive away a short distance before being abducted, indications are that of a very fast abduction along with the missing items and behavior of a prepared criminal. I know that to try to explain how someone got to Jennifer that someone she was familiar with is seen as the answer, but the behavior of her abduction says otherwise.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was the Blue Martini bar in that area between Texas and Orange Blossom?

From what I've read, which was all new to me in last year or two, was that it was located at Millenia Mall. (I assume an outside entrance to it.) The Mall is close to the Mosaic, and opposite direction from HOTG and the area in question extends (based on the roads given) further from HOTG over to next major road over, Orange Blossom.

It breaks my heart to see that intersection of Texas and Americana described as it is (and I've seen first hand posts from someone who has lived at HOTG who backs up the perception of the statistics). I stood at the corner, in the street, on a Sunday afternoon. It was so peaceful and tranquil and pretty there, just me, standing in the street.

I walked around the pool. I wrote up a road report. I think about the people I spoke to there, think about how they are statistics in a zip code. And about that Sunday afternoon looking at the aftermath of death.

Parked at their doorstep.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would welcome any technical info on that which was technically described to Drew as batteries removed or phone destroyed. I have speculated many times that the phone sends a final signal as the battery power is disconnected, an identifiable ping from which the technicians could provide that analysis given to Drew, but I was never able to find anything on it, and I have done a lot of searching over several years on it.

However, it was total speculation, I have never seen anything on an identifiable ping that would show battery being removed or phone destroyed (last gasp signal if you will). It might be inferred from lack of something else, I don't know, but would be very helpful if there was technical information on what Drew was told. Of course this isn't the first or last time I'll ask for it either.

Another comment on triangulation. I have used the term triangulation in quotes in past posts. Something like a type of pseudo triangulation. With that I was referring to a record of pings, the towers involved, and the towers giving general hints about area and direction of movement. Very general. I ended up phrasing it as tending to probably be more toward the tower locations in an overlap area rather than farther away. And that's all that can be taken from it.

It was absolutely wrong for the OPD to point out a bad area and tell Drew that he didn't know his daughter. Wrong because that OPD doesn't know what he's talking about and wrong because he said something very cruel based on not knowing what he's talking about.

Triangulation which does locate cell phones is a completely different thing that is done at request of law enforcement. It requires cell towers equipped for it and is from my reading like a radar sent from multiple towers. The responses from the cell phone are measured for delay, and the strength of each tower signal is required for the computation, information that isn't made available to the public. From these simultaneous responses at multiple towers, a fairly precise location can be measured for the cell phone.

Again, this is only performed on demand. The terms triangulation and location of cell phone are not applicable otherwise. Of course GPS available has changed things greatly, and location is determined without any reference to cell towers. Without GPS, and I remember people talking about GPS on their cell phone in 2006 era as a big new optional thing, what is known are location of cell towers, and the cell phone can be anywhere within range of the tower. In the big picture, that locates you to say within a few miles of the tower. That doesn't locate you to a neighborhood.

Also, it is beyond belief that people in this business like the OPD would consider the missing person as voluntarily driving away from something reasonable like a well lit commercial area into crime ridden areas of the city voluntarily rather than having been overcome and being abducted. These are assumptions that are unacceptable.

As far as Drew relating being told this even though it doesn't support what they believe happened, he related it in a way that said technology was so obsolete the information was worse that worthless. He thought that communicating with a tower miles away and then back to one closer before one could drive very far was some kind of fatal flaw in technology.

And maybe people tried to explain and he just didn't want it to work, I don't know. But what he dismisses is not fatally flawed technology. It's the way cell phones and cell towers work. To this day.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question of course , if the ex was involved is , who is the POI??...

which makes it extremely unlikely it was someone well known. There is a possibility that the POI was simply parking the car and walking back to somewhere but a person simply parking the car doesn't turn back when he's out of range and look back at the car to see if anyone was watching.

Everything is made difficult by trying to explain how someone entered Jennifer's condo because there's a reluctance to believe she left her condo and drove away after she said good night for any reason whatsoever.

In addition, if there is anything to the cell tower data, she would have been moved immediately after this person accosted her in her condo, and that just isn't the way things work. So to emulate Jennifer driving away in her car there are these extreme scenarios that propose someone moving her as if she were driving away.

People need to think about that a little bit.

The simple scenario is that Jennifer wanted to get that phone on its way to the friend because she would be stressed for time to do it at lunch following the important meeting at 11. Assumptions that she would send from work are totally devoid of any history provided of her doing anything like that before. People who say they are sure she would do that should provide some basis for their surety.

None of us are sure where she might have intended to take the phone, and I still think it is possible she might have intended to take the phone over to the nearby mall bar to dump on the mutual friend to take care of if she had an inkling he was there.

I think that's as good an explanation as any. There may have been some other place she intended to take it. But the only thing preventing that explanation is a belief that she wouldn't go back out for any reason no matter how short and close. And with the cell tower data, that is just denying reality.

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