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Natalee Holloway
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Natalee Holloway Reply with quote

Kortnie wrote:
I am disgusted about the slipshod manner in which Aruban authorities have been handling this tragedy. They are like the Keystone Kops! I'm sure many of you feel the same. Any comments?

Oh well, here's my comment to my comment! I so admire Beth Twitty for her determination to solve her daughter's disappearance. I'm kind of amazed that there isn't a Natalee thread here already - was there one in the past? My theory is Beth's theory: Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers committed sexual crimes (Beth's words) against Natalee and then killed her. I think that these boys are two junior sociopaths who had no qualms about degrading and murdering a girl.

Poor Natalee. I feel so bad for her.

On another topic - BTK was caught! How fabulous was that?!!!! A true sociopath, pure evil, is Dennis Rader.
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject: what a pleasure and a joy Reply with quote

Kortnie wrote:
I am disgusted about the slipshod manner in which Aruban authorities have been handling this tragedy. They are like the Keystone Kops! I'm sure many of you feel the same. Any comments?

Oh well, here's my comment to my comment! I so admire Beth Twitty for her determination to solve her daughter's disappearance. I'm kind of amazed that there isn't a Natalee thread here already - was there one in the past? My theory is Beth's theory: Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers committed sexual crimes (Beth's words) against Natalee and then killed her. I think that these boys are two junior sociopaths who had no qualms about degrading and murdering a girl.

Poor Natalee. I feel so bad for her.

On another topic - BTK was caught! How fabulous was that?!!!! A true sociopath, pure evil, is Dennis Rader.


Nice to meet you and I just am re-posting everything you put above. Yes, I agree, and say, "hello" too. It is hard to talk to myself on a daily basis. I can't respond and post back and forth! Nice to see the company, and I like to read points of view I disagree with with too. Yet, I do agree with your view. Ah, what can I say, it is lonely typing sometimes.


The subjects you bring up deserve threads of their own, Natalee and the psycho BTK. I had to respond to you though. Nice to see input on these subjects. It gets very boring without postings- (smile)

I have read ugly things about Natalee, and other victims. This upsets me to no end. I hate when people feel they should in anyway blame a victim for any type of crime. No victim is ever at fault. Natalee is too young to fall prey to such lunatics even though we are "ONLY assuming who did this crime" right!.... Like we don't know! (btw, my aunt owns a home in Aruba, I would love to get her thoughts on this)

Beth is to be admired. I have discussed this at home, and I'm glad she continues her fight. God Bless her. I would do the same and I am one to call the boys there "KEYSTONE COPS" myself.

I do feel one thing though that many may disagree on and that is : I feel if we do travel internationally that we must obey set international laws. This does not mean I do not say, "BUCK THE SYSTEM!" But as one who has traveled or had others travel from other nations, I feel we have to keep our laws intact. I think you know what I mean. But, in a case of a missing person, I am for banning any travel to Aruba myself, and wish any family members would do so. Yet, my opinion does not count.

BTK- Denis Rader is a peice of scum and I have read/followed him for years. Threads and threads can be discussed on what a complete manic he is. I think he relishes in the fact everyone talks about him. He is just plain evil

Ann Rule is/or was sued. Have you read that? I was going to post in the thread but I just had it saved over the last year.

I wish you good fortune and enjoyed reading your posts today. Thank you for all your comments. I will be enjoying some welcome family time during the next week. I loved reading your thoughts and will look forward to your true crime.

Regards.
GG
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, GG, for your comments and compliments! I appreciate it - esp. the "good fortune" wish! Buona Fortuna to you, too.

Seems like we think a lot alike concerning poor Natalee. Yes, "blaming the victim" is always horrible, and I've seen cruel sites about her, too, such as the "Fuck Natalee" site. I just have to shake my head at these (mostly) males who also must be sociopaths like the Dutch kid and the Surinamese Bros. So gross.

The BTK movie on tv will be on Oct. 9. I'm definitely watching it. An actor named Gregg Henry is cast as BTK. Check him out on the Web - I see a faint resemblance to Evil Dennis (rotting in his cell now!!!).

Why did Ann Rule get sued? By the ghost of Ted Bundy? Ha-ha, kidding obviously! I look forward to reading your posts. BTW, I have rd's book (ordered it last summer). Have you read it?
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: HOWLING! and ann rule Reply with quote

Kortnie; I did not know conversing was allowed. You have me howling.

After my guest arrives, and leaves, I was changing my IP code and server but you made me giggle. I was just reading some older posts here, and I had to laugh. I don't mean to go on, but you remind me of a friend I have. She just came back into my life. We are opposites in everyway. She writes on the other side of the fence. But I read a couple of your posts and laughed. (rd can erase this). I call her, (MD-S) She just got involved with a writer, (what else).
Anyway I got a call from her last week. You just sparked me with a couple of posts I pulled out on Kobe and Blake.

Anyway, I will look up the Actor. Personally, my favorite actor is --

Ralph Fiennes. I think I would love to see him put on the weight and do BTK. I don't know why. I love Ray, or is it Ralph or is it Fine!

here you go. Talk about punching in a promo for the man.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000146/


Quote:
Why did Ann Rule get sued? By the ghost of Ted Bundy? Ha-ha, kidding obviously! I look forward to reading your posts. BTW, I have rd's book (ordered it last summer). Have you read it?


I'm sure you were kidding but it wouldn't be a shock if Bundy the madman came back - but I'll give you the link on the article on Ann. I may have a few more I can share at another time.

I was going to order Mr. rd's book online,waiting till my amazon discount kicks in with some music another is ordering. Been reading it online.

Quote:
I just have to shake my head at these (mostly) males who also must be sociopaths like the Dutch kid and the Surinamese Bros. So gross.


Don't be asking me about those Dutch boys- Please! I always get them confused with the Dane boys and then we could get in trouble here. I would not want to start any rumors.
----I save that for the Attorneys at Large. Hum, major pyschos in my opinion. Not all of them, but some of those Dutchmen, and Danish men. Got to be careful (not singular) edit

I'll make sure to share our chat with MD-S. She will be interested to know about this conversation.

Let's hope that Natalie gets justice and all those women out there who so dearly deserve it. (and the men too)

Take care. I go in Peace.

GG)



Ann Rule Link (this is an older one K)
Link 1

http://www.httabloid.com/news/7242_1044602,001800080000.htm

Link 2
http://www.anvilpub.com/bn_nov.htm
(summary below)

and this too:Female convict who murdered husband sues Ann Rule for libel. Even crime writers can be sued by the criminals they write about. An Oregon woman who shot and killed her husband during a camping trip has sued crime writer Ann Rule for libel, claiming that Rule's 2003 book on the case depicts her as "evil, delusional and a sociopath." Rule, a former Seattle police officer, wrote about Liysa Northon, a writer found guilty of murdering her airline pilot husband during a 2000 camping trip, in Heart Full of Lies: A True Story. Northon is serving a 12-year sentence in Oregon.


( I had a more recent one and infor. from Ann's guestbook) I can't remember if it went to court yet..)

Regards- GG
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9233
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kortnie and GG. No, no one ever started thread on Natalee, but now we have one. I have to tell you, I have seen parallels with Chandra's case in the past with Laci Peterson and Ann Marie Fahey in major aspects of the case, but I have to say it is either me or the summer of 2005 looks like a virtual rerun of the summer of 2001 and Chandra. It is so sad it is pathetic.

My feeling is that the arm that washed ashore (shades of Laci) in Venzuela is Natalee's, and that as soon as it is id'ed Joran van Der Sloot will be charged with murder.

A 17 year old girl is now talking with police about Joran drugging and raping her, and I'm sure he'll be convicted of that in the meantime.

He's another silent young man, alternately refusing to talk to police then making up stories as he goes along, in the image of Condit and Peterson.

You say I murdered her, prove it. No body, no case. His own father, a judge, advised him of that. But he'll be convicted like Peterson was, in my opinion.

rd

click to read the online true crime mystery novel Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy

www.justiceforchandra.com home page
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What??? I haven't heard about any arm washing ashore on V, rd. Do you have a link for that?

Also haven't heard about the 17 yr old girl - link?

I thought I was up on the Natalee case but I guess I'm not!

I agree that eventually evidence will appear and he's goin' down, the little creep.

GG - thanks for all your nice compliments! I looked it up and saw that I'd read the book about the woman suing Ann Rule. It's called "Heart Full of Lies." In the lawsuit the woman is refuting that she intentionally killed her husband and she ain't no sociopath, as Ann Rule portrays her!!!
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:09 am    Post subject: comments: Reply with quote

rd states:

Quote:
My feeling is that the arm that washed ashore (shades of Laci) in Venzuela is Natalee's, and that as soon as it is id'ed Joran van Der Sloot will be charged with murder.

A 17 year old girl is now talking with police about Joran drugging and raping her, and I'm sure he'll be convicted of that in the meantime.


rd, I too have read links relating to both these aspects of the case. This time I hope this evidence does lead to Joran being involved in Natalee's death. Her family's prolonged pain has to come to an end.

Kortnie, I'm glad to see you today too. Your comments are always
wonderful to read. I wish I had saved my links for you.

When I see the contrast of the cases of missing women, I notice a
another similiar case I want to bring up. Along with your comparison
rd, I must mention if/? Joran and or the boys did this crime, I look
at the case of ANDREW LUSTER.

Think about it--. If Joran is a rapist/indulges in this said behavior-
drugging girls in the past- being caught, tried and put away,
his future as a "SO called Luster" will be halted. I see a boy/man that
seems to have been headed in that direction, who has a father similar
to A. Luster mother!

Here is a link on A. Luster to refresh those that may have forgotten
his history.


http://www.primetimecrime.com/Recent/sex%20crimes%20Luster.htm

-- Hoping if Joran is convicted, his family does not help
him run.

G)
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, GG, Luster didn't kill anyone. Whereas, I think that Natalee tried to fight J off, and he wound up killing her. EVERYONE knows about J's quick-to-boil temperament. It was even mentioned this morning on the Today show during a segment about N.

Please, info about the arm and 17 yr old.
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

K

Quote:
But, GG, Luster didn't kill anyone


Hey Kortnie: I believe, (and not to take the topic off subject)-- but that Luster did kill people. I think if (J) was involved with Nats. death, (hum, think) he would not have killed her. It was a matter of circumstance that he did, (if he did)..

Just using this in the proper terms here, the if's and the bull..
He drugged her as we are proposing. If she did not Fight,he would not have killed her. Same Luster type situation! It was the fight, and that
she probably remained alert that lead him (J) to have to kill her.
This is a pattern that we seem to see in people that rape, or kill. He (J) or
in the case of Luster, they will continue getting their thrills with women
/girls who won't comply with them, unless drugged- and why bother
killing them?

As with Luster's victims, they remained blacked out. He could proceed until caught. The victims (as with the case of other serial rapists/killers
left out there, we just don't know about) have not been found, that is what I believe.

I think in (J's) case, if he has a past pattern of drugging gals, why would he kill Natalee unless she fought back? It would not serve (HIM) any purpose. The purpose would be only , and only to cover his tracks.

It just makes sense, as it does with all these men who kill women out of their desire to move forward without a women who
will tie them down in anyway:
pregnancy, child support, mistress, etc.

My computer is working to slow to search. Check out any crime forums
or news stations. I'll be here till my company arrives via flight to talk.

GG)


G)
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GG, don't forget the two Surinamese Brothers were there, too. My belief is that she was gang-raped, and then of course they had to kill her to protect themselves. She was just a female to them, i.e., expendable.

Thanks for writing.
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:57 pm    Post subject: comments Reply with quote

K;

what a pleasure to talk---

One comments to your above,
Noted.


(in regard to the other boys)-- still vacillating on their involvement.

I thought I read in the case of the "Laws of the Island", they can still be
charged with the same crime as Joran- if they were involved with hiding
the body. I'm not one that is learned in International laws, yet funny I do
know an attorney that specializes in this. Not one to call for this matter. I cannot read the language of the land, be it Dutch or any other.

How 'bout you? I see you are an expert in a couple of matters! I was skilled in a few tongues myself but not anymore. (*HA)

Mad how I feel Joran's daddy said, "no body no crime?" My daddy would
have made us stand up for what was right.

Did you read that Blake's Civil T. is going to Court? Hum Hum. I had posted in a thread here but it disappeared when I was posting.
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, goz, in what matters am I "expert?" Unless you were kidding, of course!

Yeah, J's Judge daddy saying "no body no crime" is like Scott Peterson's mommy saying "deny, deny, deny." These parents KNOW their kids committed a heinous crime, yet protect them! I don't understand that myself, but one sees it all the time...However, J's daddy's statement is WRONG. People can be and are convicted of murders w/out bodies.

For example, do you know the Perry March case in Nashville? Please read up on it just by searching the above name. His wife's body has NOT been found, but I bet you he will get convicted when his case goes to trial next year. Some attorneys consider circumstantial evidence as more valuable than forensic. For instance: Perry (a real sociopath), has all the tires on his car changed just a few days after his wife goes missing, even though they did not need changing at all! And the guy at the tire shop says this! Circumstantial, but damning. Oh, Perry was a lawyer in Nashville (disbarred now). Get this: He was put through Vanderbilt Law School by his "missing" (she's dead) wife's father. You must read about the case!

Concerning Blake, I definitely think he's responsible for Bonnie's demise, and the civil trial will reflect that. Like with OJ.
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Really, goz, in what matters am I "expert?" Unless you were kidding, of course!


With the highest respect, I humbly bow to you! I think humor is a compliment and I read your write up profile so I am certain you are well-versed and know much. I am reading along with your comments too.

Even those I disagree with are a welcome to read.

I'm sure I know the case, (but I will read up on it).

I decided to go to the airport and meet the plane. Humble servant I am!

A comic edge I still try to take in life, (at times K). I love our chats and will sneak in while said guest visits.

In Blakes case, Oh, I can't stand the man. So unfair! I caught him in a snag during a civil deposition on the tele. OH OH, something he said. I will have to tell you another time. He spilled the beans. Also, alittle taste from an idiots saying from my book I was working on years ago. I call it "isms" , statements by people, all comedy of course. Somebody mentioned Blake being innocent, after all, "he is a TV detective!", can you believe that. I can.

Gotta fly K.


Quote:
People can be and are convicted of murders w/out bodies.


Of course they can. And I must say, "Scotts mom still tries to give it hell, the poor thing!"
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Ah Reply with quote

Ah OJ, I will never get out of the box! Reading quick and getting ready.

Gotta fly, see you later K.

Cases, cases, and cases.

Just the facts!!


Don't forget the guy I think in TX, his x-wife is buried on the property! She went missing after a visit. Awhile back. Hum.
G)
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you'll read about Perry March. While you're at it, the David Camm case in Indiana. He's a "family slaughterer" - murdered his wife and two small children. A former Indiana State Trooper! Lawyers and State Troopers, oh my! Camm has already been convicted, but the conviction was thrown out by the appeals court (idiots) who said that evidence of his (many) affairs was prejudicial!!! Well, yeah!!!! Hellooo???
His sex addiction is a main reason why he killed his family - to be free to **** any skirt at any time, and it was A LOT of skirts! Those appellate judges - how stupid can you get???

I checked out my profile since I hadn't done that in aeons. Ha-ha, there I am, Liberal Arts City + True Crime! I am reading one of the GREATEST True Crime books ever written - "Portrait of a Killer, Jack the Ripper, Case Closed," by Patricia Cornwell. She has actually solved the mystery of who was Jack! The case really IS closed! I recommend it highly if you've got some reading time these days.

See ya.
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