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Natalee Holloway
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read "Heart Full of Lies". The wife claimed she killed her husband unintentionally in self-defence, but that doesn't fit the evidence. A very sad case where apparently-premeditated murder ended the life of a healthy, decent, athletic (also goodlooking) man who loved his son and stepson and was trying to make his marriage work. He had been heavily drugged (sedated) and zapped with a stungun before he was shot in the head.
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 2892
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi K - just a short note since I just got in.

Of course I too am familiar with Camm's case. Can't wait to discuss it with you.

And have read many of P.C's books in the past. I have not read the new one Jack.

Nice to see others joining our conversations.

See you this week K.

More true crime and arts.

G.

Have a great weekend. I'm off to a good start. (chow)
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"No victim is ever at fault"

No one should be murdered, abused, or mistreated in any way, but sometimes their lifestyle makes them open to such abuse, or maybe makes them open is not the correct terminology

Their lifestyle can increase their chances of having something bad happen to them. If you hang around bars you are apt to have trouble with drunks. If you like to speed down the hiway you are apt to have trouble with cars and accidents.

People are not being trained up in the way that they should go. This means that they are learning by trial and error. This means that their defenses are not as good as they would be if they were trained up in the way that they should go. Their defenses are not as good for keeping themselves from becoming victims, or becoming one of the criminals.

If you have a pet, and you don't train the pet, maybe all you have is a wild animal.

benn
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:59 am    Post subject: LOTS! Reply with quote

Hi goz, how are you today?

You're familiar w/Camm's case? Great! Are you aware of the newest defendant in that case, Charles Boney? Which is why there are conspiracy charges in this second trial.

I'm not interested in "fictional" crime writing - only "true." So, I had never read a Cornwell novel before her non-fiction book on Jack the Ripper. "Case Closed" is, IMO, a work of genius. It's one of the greatest books I've ever read, and being an English major, I've read a lot of books! I hope you will get it soon so we can discuss it! Girl, Cornwell solved one of the world's greatest crime mysteries - Who was Jack the Ripper?

After Jack, I read a recent novel of hers called "Blowfly." I only read it because it was purportedly about the Baton Rouge serial killer, a horrific event of a few years in which the women of this town were terrified. At least 8 women were brutally raped and murdered. Well, the book was and wasn't about the events down here courtesy of evil sociopath Derrick Todd Lee. In fact, I thought the book was terrible. It amazes me that I can feel so differently about 2 books by the same author, but there it is!

My comment to benn is that true, lifestyle CAN play an important role concerning what happens to you. But, not completely. When I became one of the world's millions and millions of female rape victims at age 22, I was in college and asleep in my bed at 4 AM when the stalker/rapist broke into my house. He threatened me with various weapons, raped me, and nearly murdered me. I wasn't at a bar, I wasn't out partying. In fact, concerning all of the times I have been at bars or out partying, nothing has ever happened.

So, you see, females are assaulted/raped/murdered in a variety of situations. And then there are the many wives, like Laci and Lori and Janet March and Kim Camm and Beverley Watson etc etc who certainly are not at bars or partying but are murdered by their husbands anyway. Whether a prostitute on the street, or "good" women in their homes, women are murdered every day by men in the U.S. and all over the globe. My state, Louisiana, is the state ranked second in the nation in terms of violence against women. Alaska is first (last year study by the Violence Policy Center, Washington). This study uses FBI data. In 1999, Louisiana was #1. In 2003, it was #4. It has yet to break out of the top 5.

See ya soon!
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 1173
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Missing Teen Case Focuses on Aruban Trio
Tuesday June 14, 2005 10:03am





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ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - Authorities freed two former hotel security guards detained after Natalee Holloway vanished, intensifying the focus Tuesday on three younger men who took the Alabama teenager to a beach before she disappeared. Officials who confirmed the release of Antonius "Mickey" John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, late Monday declined to comment on whether they were making progress in solving the mystery of Holloway's disappearance on the Dutch Caribbean island during a student trip.

"The investigation is ongoing," Attorney General Caren Janssen told The Associated Press.

Justice authorities refused to comment further Tuesday. But government spokesman Ruben Trapenberg said the release of the men "probably means they had nothing to do with this case and prosecutors were able to check out their alibis."

The release came after the teen's mother, Betty Holloway Twitty, told AP she believed the two ex-security guards were innocent but that the three other young men knew what happened and should be pressed to tell the truth.

Lawyers for John and Jones filed court petitions Monday seeking an order for their release, but they were let go before a judge reviewed the motions, according to John's lawyer, Noraina Pietersz.

"These guys had nothing to do with this case and this decision reflects that," Pietersz said.

No one has been charged, and lawyers for the three men still in custody and the two freed men all say their clients are innocent

"I'm very happy but also disappointed," John said by telephone after his release from detention that began June 5. "I knew from day one that I was innocent."

Holloway vanished early May 30, hours before she was expected at the airport to return home after a five-day vacation with 124 classmates and seven chaperones celebrating graduation from Mountain Brook, Ala., High School. Her U.S. passport and packed bags were found in her room.

John and Jones, who had worked as security guards at a nearby hotel, were detained after the three young men said they dropped her off and last saw her around 2 a.m. being approached in the car park of her hotel by a black man in a security guard uniform.

Holloway Twitty said if she did not see results soon, she might start to believe authorities were trying to protect the young men, who told police they took the 18-year-old Holloway to a beach after an evening of dancing and drinking, hours before she disappeared.

One of the three is a 17-year-old Dutch honors student at Aruba International School who is the son of a high-ranking judicial official in Aruba and whose detained friends told police he was kissing and fondling the girl in the back of the car when they went to the beach.

"All three of those boys know what happened to her," Holloway Twitty said Sunday. "They all know what they did with her that night."

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber has stressed that no one is above the law on the Dutch Caribbean island governed by a local parliament. The Netherlands Antilles is responsible for foreign and defense affairs.

Hundreds of islanders and tourists have volunteered in daily searches for Holloway, whose plight has shocked residents in one of the safest destinations in the region. One murder and six rapes were recorded last year on the island of 97,000 people. This year there have been two murders and three rapes.



Written By PETER PRENGAMAN

http://beta.abc3340.com/news/stories/0605/235675.html
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 1173
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Source: Suspects Said Man Dressed in Security Uniform Approached Student Before She Disappeared
Thursday June 09, 2005 12:42pm





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Oranjestad, Aruba (AP) - Three young men who acknowledged partying with an 18-year-old Alabama teen before she went missing last week told police that a man dressed in a security uniform approached her as they dropped her off at her hotel.

The Associated Press obtained the information today from an anonymous source.

The men were arrested this morning in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, who they said they last saw in front of the Holiday Inn shortly before 2 a.m. on May 30th.

Two of the suspects, identified as Surinamese brothers Satish and Deepak Kaploe, told police Natalee had been drinking and fell down as she got out of the car in front of the hotel.

The source said when the third suspect, Dutch citizen Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot, tried to help her, she refused, saying, -- quote -- "I can stand on my own."

The Surinamese brothers told police, a black man dressed in a black security uniform and carrying a Walkie-Talkie went up to Natalee, seemingly to offer his assistance. The suspects then drove off and did not see Natalie again.


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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three Men Seen With Teen Still in Custody
Sunday June 12, 2005 9:38am





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ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - Three young men who took an Alabama honors student to the beach before she disappeared must stay in jail, a judge ruled Saturday, as Aruba's attorney general and others denied reports that one had confessed and said he would take police to the body. As rumors mounted about the fate of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, a spokeswoman for her family, Carla Caccavale, told The Associated Press: "The family confirms that a body has not been found."

Holloway vanished hours before she was expected at the airport to end a five-day trip to the Dutch Caribbean island with 124 classmates and seven chaperones celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook High School, near Birmingham, Ala.

Police found her U.S. passport and packed bags in her hotel room.

No one has been charged in the case, and statements Saturday seemed to leave the investigation where it was several days ago.

Prosecutors refused to comment on a statement Friday night by Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig, who told The Associated Press that one of three young men in police custody had told police Friday night that "something bad happened." He refused to identify which of the three young men made the statement.

A statement from the office of Attorney General Caren Janssen late Saturday said "Information given by non-official sources jeopardizes the ongoing investigation and creates expectations and situations that are not based on fact. "

Police refused to say Saturday whether they discovered anything that would lead to Holloway, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30.

Referring to Dompig's statement, prosecution spokeswoman Vivian van der Biezen said Saturday: "We neither confirm nor deny any information coming from other sources ... (about) alleged statements of suspects in this case."

The night Holloway disappeared, she spent part of the evening partying at a restaurant and then in the back seat of a car kissing a 17-year-old Dutch student, according to lawyers quoting from testimony from two Surinamese brothers - friends of the Dutch boy - arrested in the case along with him.

Antonio Carlo, the lawyer representing the Dutch minor, said he is confident his client is "100 percent innocent."

"My client has not confessed to any crime," he told The Associated Press.

Police also have detained two other men - former security guards at a hotel near the one where Holloway was staying.

One of their court-appointed lawyers, Noraina Pietersz, said her client also was innocent.

"Five suspects are being held," van der Biezen said. "We are at a very crucial, very important moment in our investigation."

Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, is feeling the strain, her brother-in-law told the AP on Saturday morning. Tom "Jar" Twitty said: "She has had amazing stamina up until now."

Holloway's family believes she is alive, Tom Twitty said. Rumors that she is dead are "an aggressive interpretation" of what police are saying, he told The Associated Press.

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber said on national radio Friday night that if something happened to Holloway, it would damage the reputation of this island of 97,000 people, which depends on tourism and is considered one of the safest spots in the Caribbean.

In Holloway's hometown, her friends gathered after midnight at a church where people have been holding prayer vigils for her. Some hugged and cried; one woman left a flickering candle at the base of a wall decorated with messages to Holloway, who had earned a full scholarship to the University of Alabama, where she planned to study medicine.

Holloway's mother and stepfather told The Birmingham News in Alabama that they discovered the Dutch boy's connection to their daughter within 24 hours of her disappearance by talking to other students on the trip. They then found surveillance videotapes showing him playing poker with other Mountain Brook teens in their hotel casino two days before she vanished.

A lawyer for one of the Surinamese - Satish Kalpoe, 18, whose brother, Deepak, 21, also is in custody - said they told police they took Holloway to Arashi Beach, on the northern part of the island, in the early hours of May 30.

According to their police statement, they did not get out of the car, defense lawyer David Kock said. Instead, Holloway and the Dutch teen, an honors student at the Aruba International School whom she had met at the casino in her hotel, "were in the back seat kissing."

They also told police that they dropped Holloway at her Holiday Inn at about 2 a.m. and last saw her being approached by a man in a security guard uniform before they drove off, Kock said.

The brothers told police the young woman was drunk and refused to get out of the car, said Noraina Pietersz, who is representing Antonius "Mickey" John, 30, one of the two former security guards. He and Abraham Jones, 28, have been detained since Sunday and have denied any connection to Holloway.

The three young men said Holloway stumbled in the parking lot of the hotel but refused help from her Dutch escort, Kock said.

Holiday Inn employees say security cameras did not record Holloway's return. A Holiday Inn guard who worked the overnight shift that day said he did not see her, said Pietersz, who said she reviewed the guard's statement to police.

Aruba has an independent local government; the Netherlands is responsible for its defense and foreign affairs.

---

Associated Press reporter Jay Reeves in Mountain Brook, Ala., contributed to this report.



Written By MICHAEL NORTON


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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 1173
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourth Aruba Detainee to Remain in Custody in Missing Teen Case
Tuesday June 21, 2005 10:55am





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Source: Suspects Said Man Dressed in Security Uniform Approached Student Before She Disappeared
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Aruban Judge Says Police Can Hold Suspects



Oranjestad, Aruba (AP) - A judge ordered a party boat disc jockey held until at least next Tuesday in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager in Aruba.

Steve Gregory Croes, 26, is one of four men detained in the four-week-old case. None have been charged, frustrating the family of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway.

On Monday relatives said a Texas company would help search for her, as the family prepared a lawsuit demanding investigators share their findings with the family.

"I want to see the police record from May 30th," said the teen's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. Holloway insists the three young men hold the key to the investigation and that authorities should press them harder to tell the truth.

Natalee Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., disappeared in the early hours of May 30, the last day of a five-day vacation with 124 students celebrating their high school graduation. Her passport and packed bags were found in her room.

Croes, who was arrested Friday, said he knew one of two Surinamese brothers detained in the case because they went to the same Internet cafe, according to Marcus Wiggins, Croes' employer on the party boat Tattoo. It was not known what other ties he may have had to either the brothers or a third young man in detention, 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot, the son of a justice official in Aruba. The boat Tattoo docks near the Holiday Inn where Holloway was staying.

On Saturday, a judge ordered the three to remain in jail at least another week.

The missing girl's uncle, Paul Reynolds, told Court TV Monday that the Dickinson-based Texas EquuSearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team would help search the island. The group conducts searches on horseback.

"They are going to help us search for Natalee in ways we couldn't before," Reynolds said.

Texas EquuSearch, made up of volunteers, said on its Web site that a team is traveling to Aruba this week.

Investigators refuse to say whether they believe Holloway is dead. Her mother has said she will continue to believe the teen is alive until she has proof to the contrary.


» Find More Articles Related To This One

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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kortnie wrote:
GG, don't forget the two Surinamese Brothers were there, too. My belief is that she was gang-raped, and then of course they had to kill her to protect themselves. She was just a female to them, i.e., expendable.

Thanks for writing.



Kortnie, one of the broithers was on the internet from 2 to 3 with Joran calling him a couple of times from the Marriot area, so prves they went home as they said they did.

Linke to come on arm and 17 year old if they aren't here already. I saw it on Greta/Nancy shows so not sure what links may have it.

rd
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 2892
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:07 pm    Post subject: too much to comment on and read Reply with quote

Hi K, and all:

Too much to comment, and read in a short time but to answer a few questions and bid an hello to all:

K) can't wait to stumble through "JACK" with you.

I too am not a non-fiction reader, and hardly indulge in this type of reading but have read PC in the past. I have problems forming and reading currently.

P) I must read the articles you posted in here and other places

Victims: sorry you were raped K. Many MAY contribute to being victims to their crimes but never are they responsible. I must address this to a small degree here.

1)
The Victim: Having been HIT head on, as a pass. in a moving car, and the driver not being at fault, wearing a seatbelt, and having most of my life destroyed, I must type this. I take offense at the laws the legal system use against said Victims of crimes that are not crimes. I take offense at LEGALAZE as you kindly use often. I take to heart what was done to my life and others. I take offense as a citizen of my country, and how LE does little to care of others. That is one example.

*Read Maury Murrays Story. I take real offense here. *


2)
To be almost killed when others enter your life, your space and enter your personal property is a said invasion of your right to live. (such as being raped) That is not a lifestyle choice. That is another's choice to kill, or destroy anothers life. To beat, harm, or hurt another has nothing to do with the victim. To be stalked on a regular basis, to hunt another, to make them live in fear, is not the fault of the victim, it is the fault of the animal and sick individual who Stalks, Rapes, Hunts, and destroys.

3)
As a college student I was approached outside of a MALL in Florida- by a man who offered to take modeling photos of me. I said no and backed away. Hum, this man turned out to be a major serial killer. I do not know his name. He was a race car driver, he was eventually killed, and destroyed many lives.

It is not all in lifestyle, choice, dress, etc. It is not who you are, how you were raised, what bar you go to, what you do for a living. It is what other people do to other people

The crime is about the "OTHER PERSON", stepping on an individual rights. Nobody has that right to destroy anothers life. As I scanned (P's) article, it may have mentioned prostitutes, etc. The Green River, etc had not rights to take anyone's life. I do not care. So that is all I can add here.

You do not have the right to ever take anyone's freedom.

GG)
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 2892
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peripeteia: thank you for the updates. I was cut from the computer and just got back.

Will read more when I can.

G)
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kortnie, you're apparently right. The brothers and yet another of theri friends were taken into custody today. The internet alibi sounded solid to me at least for the one brother that was said to logged onto it.

On the other hand, the Aruban police have done a lot of crazy things up till now. Will this new person being arrested be a sounder arrest than the DJ or security guards?

Lots of talk about Katrina headed for New Orleans and evacuation, same as last year when you were posting. It missed then, hopefully will again.

rd
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember reading many years ago that people feel vulnerable if they acknowledge that crime can be totally random; therefore many have an urge to blame the victim as it makes them feel safe ("It can't happen to me" because I don't do this or always do that, etc.) But how horrible for the victims to be blamed for the crimes they suffered - this victimizes them all over again.

Looking back, I did many things that I would do anything to discourage my children from doing - I hitchhiked alone, etc., etc. I was extremely lucky. Once, I actually got in a car full of bike gang members and they dropped me off exactly where I wanted to go, without incident. What an idiot I was.

What a horrible thing, Kortnie, to be attacked in the middle of the night while sleeping in your own home. How difficult your recovery must have been - it is a real achievement.
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peripeteia



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Updated: 6:19 p.m. ET Aug. 26, 2005
ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Two Surinamese brothers who had been detained and released in the Natalee Holloway case were arrested again Friday based on new evidence, officials said.

Satish Kalpoe and Deepak Kalpoe were arrested after authorities uncovered "new facts and circumstances" in the investigation of Holloway's disappearance, the prosecutor's office said in a statement.

A fourth person, who authorities say is a friend of the Kalpoe brothers, was also arrested. His connection with the case, if any, was unclear. His name was not immediately released.

Story continues below ↓
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I just read somewhere that this murdered may have been premediated, it is obvious that someone has been talking. My guess is that the police are going to squeeze the brothers to give evidence as Van der Sloot will have to be release soon if there is not enough evidence to charge him with murder.

It seems likely that with all the searching that has gone on that Natalee is likely at the bottom of the ocean a mile or more off Aruba, in a suitcase, cooler, barrell. If Natalee was on the Island she would have been found by now. It is possible that these boys stole a boat, or borrowed one and dumped Natalee in the ocean. Perhaps if this was premediated they had a boat standing by. It seems rather far fetched that these boys premeditated a murder, whatever did they hope to gain, and obviously they did not expect to get caught, which seems rather stupid.
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peripeteia



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

‘New facts’ prompt rearrest of brothers in Aruba
Kalpoes held on suspicion in Holloway case; fourth suspect arrested
FREE VIDEO


• Brothers arrested in Aruba case
Aug. 26: Prosecutors say Satish and Deepak Kalpoe have been arrested in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
MSNBC



Updated: 6:19 p.m. ET Aug. 26, 2005
ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Two Surinamese brothers who had been detained and released in the Natalee Holloway case were arrested again Friday based on new evidence, officials said.

Satish Kalpoe and Deepak Kalpoe were arrested after authorities uncovered "new facts and circumstances" in the investigation of Holloway's disappearance, the prosecutor's office said in a statement.

A fourth person, who authorities say is a friend of the Kalpoe brothers, was also arrested. His connection with the case, if any, was unclear. His name was not immediately released.

Story continues below ↓
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The brothers were detained on suspicion of involvement, with unidentified "other people," in premeditated rape and murder.

Satish Kalpoe, 18, and Deepak Kalpoe, 21, were released from jail in July after a judge ruled there was not enough evidence to hold them in the disappearance of the 18-year-old American, who vanished in May on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island.

Holloway family pleased
Holloway's family members said they were pleased about the arrests, which they learned about from the FBI.

"We haven't been told why, but I think it's obvious," Natalee's stepmother, Robin Holloway, said by phone from Meridian, Miss. "We've known all along they had something to do with Natalee's disappearance."
Pedro Famous Diaz / AP
Brothers Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe, on their way to court on Friday, were arrested again in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
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Earlier, a lawyer for Satish Kalpoe said authorities had not disclosed why the brothers had been arrested again. "They haven't shown us any evidence," Elgin Zeppenveldt told reporters outside a court where they were to appear before a judge.

Brothers first arrested in June
The brothers were first arrested on June 9 along with Joran van der Sloot, 18, who authorities have identified as a suspect in the case, though no charges have been filed.

Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar with the Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot in the early hours of May 30. Extensive searches of the island have produced no sign of the teen.
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