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Ray F. Gricar- Laptop found
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goz, Gricar's hard drive was found in the river and is now being analyzed by the FBI. Get this. It was found in the river about a hundred yards from the laptop by a private citizen.

If the police couldn't even find a hard drive in the area, what else could be in there that could shed light on what happened to Gricar? And how do you miss a hard drive? The hard drive is the right model for the laptop so is next to impossible to be bogus.

Hopefully the FBI will be able to read it and see what's on it. I have a chapter in Murder on a Horse Trail where I analyze what was on Chandra's computer. If the police release information about what was on Gricar's computer and ask for the public's help, it will be deja vu all over again as to what got me started on Chandra's case more than four years ago.

rd
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Rd for the post- you know I'm interested. I found out yesterday, and I have the link and article which I will post and then continue to discuss with you/others here as to my opinions too.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05299/595228.stm

Missing DA's computer drive recovered
Wednesday, October 26, 2005

By Paula Reed Ward, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The computer hard drive that had been removed from missing Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar's laptop has been found.

Bellefonte police today announced that the hard drive was recovered in the Susquehanna River about three weeks ago by a woman and her child who were standing on the river bank throwing stones in Lewisburg, Union County.

It was found about 100 yards from where the laptop was recovered July 30 by fishermen on the river, said Officer Darrel Zaccagni, the lead investigator on the case.

The hard drive was 10 to 15 feet from the river bank, but the water around it had receded, allowing it to sit on dry land.

The woman turned the hard drive over to state police at Milton, who then forwarded it to forensic computer specialists.

"It's in really bad shape," Zaccagni said.

The state police analysts didn't want to risk further damage to the hard drive, so they turned it over to the FBI in Philadelphia, who have since forwarded it to what is called a "clean," or "white room," in California. The sterile environment there is designed specifically for computer work.

Zaccagni is unsure if any information can be recovered from the hard drive, but if so, he said, it could be a break in the case they've been waiting for.

Gricar went missing on April 15. That morning, he had called his live-in girlfriend and told her he would be taking the day off from work. At that point, he was driving through Penns Valley toward Lewisburg. His car, a red and white Mini Cooper, was found there the next evening. Though there were sightings of Gricar in Lewisburg that Friday, he has not been seen since.

Bellefonte police, which are leading the investigation, have not been able to determine if Gricar was the victim of foul play, if he might have committed suicide, or if he chose to walk away from his life.

He was due to retire at the end of this year after serving as district attorney for 20 years.

______________________________________________________

RD
I guess LE kept this one to themselves for the last three weeks! I was thinking they dropped the investigation and Ray was going to become a Cold Case. This still does not change my view- I do not think Ray took his own life. I feel there is more to this story! Once again, maybe I choose to believe that Ray did not take his life. Too hinky for me to believe this story.

My reasons stand, (and of course I could be wrong) are that:

If you are going to take your life, why jump in the river with your computer and take it apart RD, it makes no sense

- His brother took his life there, suspicious once again. If someone were to murder him, why not stage the scene there.

-If Ray wanted to hide information on his computer, why jump with it.

-Also, I see no reason again when we look at his life for him to take it, or walk away.

I still feel drugs were involved, or something sinister.

Your point about LE and the computer. Makes sense to me completely!


Quote:
If the police couldn't even find a hard drive in the area, what else could be in there that could shed light on what happened to Gricar? And how do you miss a hard drive? The hard drive is the right model for the laptop so is next to impossible to be bogus.


As you stated in your posting, it could be deja vu all over again if the Police release the contents of Ray's hard-drive but I'm wondering if they will. I don't feel that will happen. I don't know why. At this point, I'm baffled at this investigation. I'm not saying they didn't do their job RD, but I feel somewhere, somehow we are not privy to all that has been found out. And who knows, we will probably be told, --- it can't be read.

Maybe you should request access to read it? (HA) that would give us the real data there.

I want to know, what do you think? I sadly think Ray is dead, but not by his own hand.

Godzie- Foul Play is my answer, but I sure wish Ray was alive.

See you soon.
GG)
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peripeteia



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd:

It seems fairly significant that someone went to a great deal of trouble to dismantel the hard drive, this means that likely there was exculpatory/incriminating evidence that someone was trying to get rid of and presumed would not be found. This could have been done by Garcia, that he needed to hid some evidence of something, or that the person whom might have been implicated by what was on the hard drive sought to get rid of the evidence.

If a person randomly found the lap top, that they would dismantel it and throw it in the river seems a remote possibility, they would have kept the laptop.

If Garcia was trying to get rid of the hard drive, it seems an unlikely method of disposal, why go to the trouble to travel that far, take an unlikely day off, as it was tax day at the office, to get rid of the hard drive. One would think that if there was something on the hard drive to implicate themselves, it would be more likely to smash the thing in a million pieces; like humphrey-dumphrey, no one could put back together again.
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A vision sent me on the path of seeking justice for Chandra, nothing I've seen in print to date has diminished the vividness but only served to reaffirm the validity of this vision.
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rd



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't in the article, but the local police said on tv that there was no indication the hard drive was forcibly removed from the laptop. The laptops I've had had the hard drive inside, so they would have to be removed.

This appears to be a laptop with a removable hard drive, and it came loose by an impact with the water. The laptop was dropped from the bridge, it was directly below it, and there would be a significant impact.

My feeling is that the dumping of the laptop off the bridge was to make it look like Gricar was in the river. They didn't care about the data he had, they pitched the laptop in the river, but somebody wanted it to look like Gricar was in the river. Many people will say Gricar himself.

One significant new fact. It wasn't about information Gricar had on his computer which looked to some that way with a missing hard drive. On the other hand, no one who wanted to look at the information would have pulled it from the laptop to start with.

It's also hard to believe Gricar could have gone over the side of the bridge in town there in the middle of the day. Yet it appears to me that he did, caused by whatever reason he needed to drive there.

I doubt the hard drive will shed any light on that reason, even if they do end up being able to read it. There is obviously no clue from calls to his cell phone, so that mainly leaves a call to his office.

It at least appears to me that Gricar went to meet somebody. and to meet at that spot implies someone he knew.

rd
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:41 pm    Post subject: comments--Where is RAY? Reply with quote

rd:
Quote:
It isn't in the article, but the local police said on tv that there was no indication the hard drive was forcibly removed from the laptop. The laptops I've had had the hard drive inside, so they would have to be removed



------This is the type of laptop I had, and the ones friend's use to have. I'm sure they have updated so I was pretty sure it had to be removed. I guess I was wrong.

In a comment you made it is one I have made before too. Most disagree with our theory though Rd. I believe he was lured to the area, and possibly the laptop thrown in to make it look like he jumped. I believe the lure was the case, the laptop information I'm not to sure of though. There still could prove to be something important there. Also, he could have been followed.

Still I do not think he killed himself, but .....we do not know really. I will stick with my original theory though. Lured, for a reason, (drugs, money, knowing information). I do not think he started a brand new life.

-Once I read someone stated they saw him in a town in GA, a fast food place one I know the exact location of. They said they stared at him-and he got nervous. When people stare at me, unless they are (well, my type) I tend to get the willies. It was stated their was some mini-cooper convention in town and he may have been there, then if I got the story correct-he was there by force. See, that makes no sense! I have not seen a follow up.

A fact you mention many may not have considered and I hadn't thought of-The MIDDLE OF THE DAY. Hard to jump when people may be out. Somebody may notice.

Since we have not talked of Ray as of late I added these comments-but I also found the timeline printed which I will add in-for the sake of discussion in the future.

Happy Thanksgiving all

GG)
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:45 pm    Post subject: Timeline Reply with quote

Timeline for Ray


http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/13208445.htm


Posted on Sat, Nov. 19, 2005


Timeline of the Ray Gricar case

From CDT staff reports

11:30 a.m. April 15: Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar calls his girlfriend, Patty Fornicola, and says he is driving on state Route 192 in the Brush Valley area.


11:30 p.m. April 15: Fornicola calls Bellefonte police to report Gricar missing. Police immediately send out a bulletin to local police agencies and begin speaking to Gricar's family and friends.<


1:30 p.m. April 16: A police helicopter and state police patrols search the area between Centre Hall and Rebersburg for signs of Gricar or his red-and-white Mini Cooper.


6:30 p.m. April 16: Gricar's Mini Cooper is found in a dirt parking lot across from the Street of Shops, an antiques mall on the outskirts of Lewisburg near the Susquehanna River. The car shows no signs of forced entry or foul play. Gricar's county-issued cell phone is inside. His laptop computer, wallet and keys are not. Police say there is no record of threats being made against the district attorney.


April 17: State police, using patrol cars and a helicopter, search the Lewisburg area and the Susquehanna River. They find nothing.


April 18: Bellefonte Police Chief Duane Dixon says the FBI has been asked to assist in accessing Gricar's cell phone and bank records. However, they say there has been no activity on Gricar's credit cards or bank account. At a news conference, Gricar's girlfriend and daughter plead for Gricar to contact them. The disappearance begins drawing national media attention.


April 19: Police say two witnesses report seeing a man matching Gricar's description in the Street of Shops mall about noon April 16, 24 hours after he was last heard from. Searches by helicopter and boat continue.


April 20: Police obtain a search warrant for Gricar's medical records.


April 21: Police hold a news conference and detail leads that have been investigated and ruled out.


April 22: About three dozen police and rescue workers from five counties conduct a massive search of the Susquehanna River involving nine divers, 17 search-and-rescue team members combing the river banks, two boats and a dog trained to detect corpses. The day's effort yields nothing.


May 27: A retired police officer reported seeing Gricar and an older woman at a Southfield, Mich., restaurant. Police check into the lead but find no concrete evidence that Gricar had been there.


June 7: A woman called police to report seeing Gricar at a Columbus, Ohio, grocery store. Gricar's nephews, who both live in Ohio, view the store's surveillance tapes and conclude the man she saw was not Gricar.


July 15: Fornicola passes a lie-detector test given by Secret Service agents at the Patton Township Police Department. In it, she was asked whether she knew anything or had any involvement with Gricar's disappearance.


July 29: Two fishermen found Gricar's laptop -- missing its hard drive -- in the Susquehanna River. Police believe it was tossed from the state Route 45 bridge just a short walk from where the red-and-white Mini Cooper was found.


Aug. 9: A woman snaps several photos of a man who resembled Gricar dining alone in a Chili's restaurant in Texas.


Sept. 9: Gricar's daughter Lara Gricar takes and passes a lie detector test that asked her whether she knew anything or had anything to do with her father's disappearance.


Sept. 20: By comparing the photos taken at the Texas Chili's with those of Gricar, FBI agents determine that the man at the restaurant was not the missing district attorney.


Early October: People walking along the banks of the Susquehanna River in Lewisburg find a hard drive, which they turned over to state police. Officials believe the hard drive belongs to Gricar's county-issued laptop. The hard drive was sent to an FBI lab in California for testing.

GG)
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, thanks for that timeline, Goz. Good to see you. I agree, the scene is that of someone setting up a dead end in the search for Gricar. I believe he drove there to meet someone in that dirt parking lot and was subdued and pushed into a van or something.

The laptop was tossed over the bridge as they drove off to make it look like he jumped and raise the question of just how far downriver his body is. It is an illusion. He did not jump off the bridge with his laptop at high noon. Please.

What I was writing about the hard drive was that there are models that he likely had and I haven't had that have removeable hard drives. The ads cite the security of being able to remove the hard drive. I believe this would be something that a DA's office would choose for that reason.

As a result, the hard drive could eject when thrown like that, and that is what we saw. There is also some possibility that the abductors wanted to destroy potentially identifying data by pitching the laptop in the river, but I doubt it. Data is backed up, emails cached on servers, etc. I just don't see someone thinking they are getting rid of incriminating data. It's a throw to throw the law off.

Who would he meet without telling anyone and why? I don't know. Something similar to what happened to Jonathan Luna? There is something strange about these government prosecutors disappearing in Pennsylvania. May be too much to think they are related, but they are in that they are both very mysterious.

rd
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject: Update on Hard drive- no news yet! Reply with quote

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/13297726.htm


Posted on Thu, Dec. 01, 2005


Gricar probe awaits word from FBI regarding muddy hard drive

By Erin L. Nissley

enissley@centredaily.com


The investigation into District Attorney Ray Gricar's disappearance is almost at a standstill, with police still waiting to hear whether the FBI was successful in accessing a hard drive believed to belong to his county-issued laptop.

"I've called two people over there and left messages" Wednesday, said Bellefonte police officer Darrel Zaccagni, the lead investigator in the case. "And no one has gotten back to me."

Gricar was reported missing by his girlfriend and housemate Patty Fornicola on April 15. One day later, the red-and-white Mini Cooper he'd been driving was found in a parking lot in Lewisburg. The county-issued laptop he used was found under the state Route 45 bridge in Lewisburg in July. Other than a handful of unconfirmed sightings in Lewisburg and Wilkes-Barre in the days after his disappearance from Centre County, Gricar seems to have vanished.

While police wait to see if computer experts are able to pull any information off the hard drive, found last month pressed into the muddy bank of the Susquehanna River in Lewisburg, there's little else to be done to move the investigation forward, Zaccagni said. After newly elected district attorney Michael Madeira takes office in January, Zaccagni and other police officials plan to meet with him to go over their findings in the case.

"Michael and I have not ever sat down face to face to go over the case," Zaccagni said. "He's given us suggestions previously but time has passed."

Madeira, currently a senior deputy attorney at the state Attorney General's Office, said he has been following the case as an "outsider" but would like to meet with police to review all the information they have after he takes office.

"I don't know precisely who has done what," he said.

Zaccagni mentioned wanting to see if Madeira's political contacts could help with the ongoing investigation, something that Madeira said he'd certainly try to help with if he could.

"Ray has been our DA for 20 years," Madeira said. "He deserves to have us take another look at it."

_____________________________________________________________


Comments: I'm not an expert on hard drives but I do not think this hard drive is capable of producing any information! What do you think RD, you would know more on this subject matter I'm sure? Also, I'm glad Madeira will look at all the documents, the DA deserves the highest form of an investigation even though it seems they have been doing a good job.

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gozgals



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:36 pm    Post subject: Top Court Suspends Gricar's Law License Reply with quote

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/13343769.htm

Posted on Tue, Dec. 06, 2005



Top court suspends Gricar law license


By Mike Joseph

mjoseph@centredaily.com

The state Supreme Court has suspended missing District Attorney Ray Gricar's license to practice law because he did not pay a fee to renew it this year, county and state officials said.

But Gricar family attorney Amos Goodall said Tuesday the family will take immediate steps through the trusteeship of Gricar's daughter, Lara, to have the license reinstated.

The Supreme Court's disciplinary board requires all lawyers in the state to pay a $175 license renewal fee, due by July 1 each year. Gricar went missing three months before then and has not been seen or heard from since.

The Supreme Court on Oct. 27 ordered Gricar's law license and more than 500 others in the state to be suspended, and the order took effect Nov. 26. Pennsylvania has about 5,500 active licensed lawyers.

Elaine Bixler, disciplinary board secretary, said the license can be reinstated with the payment of the $175 plus $200 in late fees and a signature on the renewal form of Gricar or someone vested with the power of attorney.

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rd



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, you see this stuff over and over, and as a computer programmer, I know lists happen and nobody is checking them twice, but you'd think that a state would have enough sense to review a list of lawyers or other people who are dealt with this way for similar reasons for circumstances such as death or, oh say one of your DA's is missing, and suspend the suspension or otherwise act as if somebody in charge has some sense.

Goz, the info is magnetic. Rust obviously puts a damper on reading those magnetic charges. If it were a CD which is laser burned with little distortions to hold the info then that is something that could be cleaned and read, but for the hard drive to be still holding much of those magnetic little bits of charges is doubtful.

All you can do is clean it carefully and run the most sensitive magnetic head you can get over it and see what it picks up.

My opinion is that anything of importance or something he was working on would have been stored as a copy somewhere in the office or home and email would have been archived on the server so anything that did exist is likely to be found.

I think it's fair to speculate that they found nothing and won't find anything unusual even if they can read the drive. Like with Luna, it's difficult to fathom a secret investigation or something else with records kept secret from everyone, taken to their grave.

Yet they both seemingly went somewhere to meet somebody under very mysterious circumstances, so they did take a secret to their graves, records or no.
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:38 pm    Post subject: Hard drive fails to help Gricar case Reply with quote

quote RD

"Goz, the info is magnetic. Rust obviously puts a damper on leading those magnetic charges. If it were a CD which is laser burned with little distortions to hold the info then that is something that could be cleaned and read, but for the hard drive to be still holding much of those magnetic little bits of charges is doubtful"

Quote End



--------Well Rd you are correct. According to the latest article and what has been obtained, there is nothing to be found on the hard drive of Ray's computer.
I take it they will still be running tests though.

Also --- as you know my theories run neck and neck with yours though!

Goz. (Happy Holidays)
____________________________________________________>

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/13364699.htm


Posted on Fri, Dec. 09, 2005



Hard drive fails to help Gricar case

Hardware too heavily damaged to retrieve data, experts say

By Erin L. Nissley

enissley@centredaily.com


Experts were unable to pull any data off a hard drive thought to belong to Ray Gricar's county-issued laptop because of the heavy damage it sustained in the months since the district attorney's disappearance.

The news dashed local investigators' hopes that the hard drive, found in October along the banks of the Susquehanna River, might give them a better picture of the circumstances surrounding Gricar's April disappearance.

"They got it apart and cleaned it," Zaccagni said. "But it was so damaged ... the water and grit pretty much destroyed it."

After the hard drive was found in Lewisburg, state police attempted to examine it but were unsuccessful. They sent the hard drive to the Secret Service in Philadelphia, who forwarded it to a special lab in California run as a joint effort among the Secret Service, the FBI and the Los Angeles police.

Zaccagni, who spoke to a Secret Service agent Thursday, said experts say they are almost certain they will be unable to retrieve any information off the hard drive, although they plan to try "one or two other things they've never done before" before giving up. He expects to receive an official report and the hard drive within the next week.

Special Agent J.J. Klaver, based in Philadelphia, said the FBI does not comment on another agency's cases nor on ongoing investigations. He said he could not confirm that the FBI ever analyzed the hard drive found in Lewisburg.

Calls to the Secret Service office in Philadelphia were not returned Thursday.

Gricar was last heard from about 11:30 a.m. April 15, when he called his office and spoke to girlfriend and housemate Patty Fornicola. She said he told her he was taking a drive in the couple's red-and-white Mini Cooper. She called police to report him missing about 12 hours later. The car was found in a Lewisburg parking lot a day later.

Police are still treating Gricar's disappearance as a missing persons case, because there is no strong information pointing to homicide, suicide or any other type of death.

Because experts were unable to access any information from the hard drive, police can't even confirm that the hard drive came from Gricar's laptop computer. The computer, minus its hard drive, was found by fishermen in the Susquehanna River in Lewisburg in July. The hard drive was later found about 100 yards from where the computer was found. It is the same make and model as the laptop.

"It looks like a duck and walks like a duck, but it won't quack for us," Zaccagni said. "We're pretty much right where we were before -- nothing."

The news didn't surprise Fornicola and Gricar's nephew, Tony Gricar.

"We're all pretty nonplussed by it," Tony Gricar said. "It seems to be the way everything goes in this case."

Fornicola said she knew the hard drive was damaged but still was hoping experts would be able to pull some information from it.

Where the investigation goes from here is anyone's guess. Bellefonte police have received no new tips about the case, Zaccagni said. They continue to look into names they've received as "people of interest," but Zaccagni declined to give specifics. He said the department is not planning to take a harder look at Gricar's previous and pending cases, which span two decades.

"Bellefonte just doesn't have the manpower to go through the thousands of cases," Zaccagni said.

He added that he welcomed any help from outside agencies, including the U.S. Justice Department. State Rep. Mark Cohen, D-Philadelphia, sent a letter Dec. 2 to that agency asking for investigators there to take a closer look at Gricar's disappearance.

Police are planning a meeting soon to review the case. Taking part in the meeting will be the borough's new police chief, Shawn Weaver, and Michael Madeira, who will succeed Gricar as district attorney in January, Zaccagni said.

"It'll be a chance to review where we've been and bounce ideas off new people," Zaccagni said. "They might have new ideas, too."

GG)
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: A Poll for a Federal Probe Reply with quote

CentreDaily is conducting a poll to see what people think about if there should be a Federal Probe into the disappearance of Ray Gricar.

There have not been many that have answered yet. So far, the poll suggests in favor of a probe.

If you would like to answer, please click the link and find the poll.



http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/


LATEST NEWS
12/10/2005 03:19 PM EST
SOUND-OFF
Should there be a federal probe into Ray Gricar's disappearance?
Vote today in our online poll.

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rd



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy Grace is covering Ray Gricar tonight. She just laid in to the Bellefontaine (sp?) police on the phone who basically said, gee, we're not going to go to too much trouble here, the guy could have committed suicide. It runs in the family.

Holy cow, gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to think about that crew investigating the disappearance of someone near and dear to you, doesn't it?

They also said his girlfriend described him as a little moody and Nancy nailed that one, rolling her eyes and saying that that could describe any man. :) The case was declared cold and taken over by the state of Pennsylvania, Nancy said.

Nancy kept talking about the hard drive being removed because it was found separate in the river from the computer. I did some research on that in this thread and it looks to me like it was a removable drive that separated upon impact with the water when the computer was tossed over the bridge, likely by the abductor to make it look like a suicide.

At least the local yocal police bought into it, which is all that counts anyway. Not that they knew, fishermen found the computer and people walking along the bank saw the hard drive.

Apparently someone else will have to find Gricar, too.

rd
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:55 pm    Post subject: thanks Reply with quote

Quote:
Holy cow, gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to think about that crew investigating the disappearance of someone near and dear to you, doesn't it?


Wow, is all I can add. That really sets me on fire RD. If Ray cannot get the attention he deserves, what can we expect****?

Thanks for the alert RD. Hoping I can catch this later on tonight on the repeat. If not, maybe I can find the transcript this week.

Have a good evening.

My thoughts are with Ray and his family.

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rd



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His nephew was on, goz, and he said that that is what they have dealt with since the beginning. And so we see family after family having to investigate their loved one's disappearance themselves. We see it over and over.

No body, no crime. What a racket.

Hope you can catch the repeat, goz. It's the first half hour.

rd
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