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Ray F. Gricar- Laptop found
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you would have gotten a little more information from him if you were there. :) She definitely did a good job if the pictures she took were thought at first glance to be Gricar by people who knew him. Good sleuthing from that TX lady.

rd
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 2892
Location: A Place Called Vertigo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:42 pm    Post subject: slideshow Reply with quote

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/slideshow.htm?content_id=+
12395832&pub_name=centredaily&language=en&palette_name=+
dailytimes&site_name=centredaily&start=1&component_title=+
&component_desc=

I didn't know the slideshow was available until this evening. I did not check around for any news. *I did make contact with a sweet woman today who is following the story though.

I guess no news is good news in Rays case. I'm happy he has not been found as of yet.

Once again, I like this womans work out in TX.
----No updates yet that I can dig up in Luna's case but I have not been looking. * I did add something to Luna's site though, (some edit work as not to spread gossip on J.Bond*) or as you say, Speculate.

G) off to fun
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rd



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the pictures tonight on Greta On the Record. Actually pretty good quality. They are from the side so that makes it tough.

He's a regular looking guy and quite frankly I believe you could think it was him a couple of times a day if you were looking at passerbys.

The family's immediate reaction is that it was not him. The girlfriend wasn't sure. Some co-workers thought it could be him.

In my opinion, if there had been a picture of him from the front there would be no doubt it was just someone who resembles Gricar.

rd
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:42 pm    Post subject: Updates/Comments Reply with quote

rd:

I'll scroll through the above articles, (I'm not sure if I posted) but the FBI are looking at the photos to date. Many feel that it is Ray. Recently a scar was discovered on the mysterious persons chin. Ray, also has a scar. I know it has been stated Ray is right handed- in the photo and the mystery man uses his left. As of what has been printed to date, there has been no formal statement by police/etc.

And to clarify a statement I previously posted so it stands corrected--

I am glad Ray has not been found as of yet because this leaves hope he may still be alive (due to some circumstance)- We can only hope this is the outcome. That would be a welcome conclusion in my eyes since I have taken a special interest in his case, as many others have.

I have scanned Greta's site for the transcript of when Rays family appeared. It does not seem to be available. The BTK coverage presented that day.

The family/police have asked the man in the photo to come forward. To date,he has not identifed himself*

G)
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: New Questions from Ray Central Reply with quote

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/+
special_packages/ray_gricar/12400634.htm

Posted on Tue, Aug. 16, 2005

Gricar Q&A


What did a county official ask him the night before he disappeared?

By Erin L. Nissley


Q: An earlier article about Gricar’s disappearance mentioned that a county commissioner saw Gricar at a meeting on April 14 and asked him a legal question. What was it?

A: Centre County Commissioner Steve Dershem said the prison board was discussing a personnel matter and he asked Gricar about a legal point.

Dershem said he asked Gricar simply as someone who was an attorney, and that the question had nothing to do with anything under the district attorney’s purview.

Gricar told Dershem that the question he asked was better brought to another type of attorney, as he didn’t have much knowledge on that particular subject.


Last edited by gozgals on Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:51 pm    Post subject: con't. new questions answered Reply with quote

Posted on Tue, Aug. 16, 2005

Gricar Q&A


Q: Why was Gricar driving on state Route 192 on April 15?

A: Gricar’s girlfriend and housemate Patty Fornicola said Gricar enjoyed driving the red-and-white Mini Cooper and often took it for drives along country roads on nice days.

Gricar, who had planned to take April 15 off, called his office at about 11:30 a.m. and spoke to Fornicola, who works as a clerk there. He said he wouldn’t be home in time to let their dog out.

“When I left that morning, I left him a note saying if you’re not going to be here, let me know so I could change my plans,” she said.

She found nothing strange about the exchange and thought nothing of it until later that night, when Gricar hadn’t returned home. She called police about 11:30 p.m. to report him missing

--------------------------------------

Posted on Tue, Aug. 16, 2005
Gricar Q&A


Did the laptop provide any clues?


Q: Have police been able to tell how long Gricar’s laptop was in the Susquehanna? Have they been able to get fingerprints from it?

A: Although investigators cannot be sure exactly how long the computer, which belonged to the county, was in the river, Bellefonte police Officer Darrel Zaccagni said he’s fairly sure it’s been in there since Gricar disappeared.

“The tiny screw holes in the back were filled with mud, the drives had muck and gunk in them,” he said. “The screen was peeling off.”

Because it had been in the water, police were unable to find any fingerprints from the computer, Zaccagni said. A forensic analyst with the state police examined the computer soon after it was found and discovered the hard drive was missing. The computer has not been sent to the FBI for analysis, Zaccagni said


same source: Latest Updated Questions and Answers

G)
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: What did Greta's Email say About Ray? Reply with quote

This has been copied over from the Misc. Section

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166216,00.html

Do emails speak volumes?

Friday, August 19, 2005
By Greta Van Susteren


E-mail No. 2

Dear Greta,
I noticed in the picture you showed last night of the man eating at the restaurant that he was eating his salad with his left hand. I was curious if Mr. Gricar was left-handed. I also noticed the watch he was wearing and wondered if the family thought it might look familiar. I also thought that the restaurant could check their daily sales records to see if this guy paid with a credit card. I suppose if he did they could track him down pretty easily.
Thanks and I love your show.
Stella Jessie

ANSWER: His family says Ray is right handed.


G)
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: An answer to a ? asked of me / other current ray news Reply with quote

This question was asked to me by someone over the phone.

I think that Ray is in the Witness Protection Program? What do you
know about this theory?


----(This is the answer that is posted, and printed in public by the police officials)

Q: Is there any possibility that Gricar is now in the witness protection program?

A: Although anything is possible, Bellefonte police officials seem to think Gricar being placed in the witness protection program is improbable for many reasons. For one thing, Gricar didn't conduct any investigations into crimes he prosecuted, according to Zaccagni. He relied on police departments to conduct investigations.

Furthermore, Zaccagni said, those running the witness protection program could "easily fabricate something to show that (Gricar) was gone."

"This is tying up federal, state and local money," he said, not to mention grabbing national headlines.



http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/
+news/special_packages/ray_gricar/12127888.htm


Posted on Thu, Jul. 14, 2005

From: Gricar Q&A

GG)
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:17 am    Post subject: What about the photos taken in TX? Reply with quote

Source 1 - Ray Central (Centre Daily Times)

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/+
news/special_packages/ray_gricar/12514317.htm



Posted on Tue, Aug. 30, 2005 - Updated Aug. 31, 2005



What about the photos taken in Texas?


Q. Any further word on the pictures from the Chili's in Texas?

A. Local police have not yet received any information about whether the FBI has analyzed the photos or compared them to photos of missing District Attorney Ray Gricar to see if they match.

The cell phone containing three photos of a man who resembles Gricar has been sent to the FBI, according to Bellefonte police Cpl. Dan Holliday.

The photos were taken earlier this month at a Chili's in Nacogdoches, Texas. The woman thought the man she saw dining alone at a nearby table looked like Gricar and took surreptitious photos of him after chatting with him briefly.

She called local authorities and eventually mailed her cell phone to Bellefonte police, who paid to replace it


G)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:26 am    Post subject: New Source- FBI Still Reviewing Pics Reply with quote

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2005/08/08-30-05tdc/08-30-05dnews-04.asp


Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005 ]

FBI still reviewing possible photos of missing D.A. Gricar


By Halle Stockton
Collegian Staff Writer
The FBI is still processing information obtained by the Bellefonte Police Department following a reported sighting of missing Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar at a Texas restaurant.

On Aug. 8, a woman at a Chili's Grill & Bar in Nacogdoches, Texas, used her cell phone to take pictures of a man she believed looked like Gricar. Bellefonte police received the phone with the pictures on Aug. 18.

The woman told police she approached the man she believed to be Gricar and asked him for directions to a local zoo. He responded that he was not from the area, and when she pushed him further to find out where he was from, he eventually said Tennessee. The woman said the man did not seem to have a southern accent.

Patty Fornicola, Gricar's girlfriend, said she thinks one photo taken by the cell phone bears a strong resemblance to a photograph of Gricar holding a baby, which can be seen on the family's Web site, www.raygricar.com.

"I am obviously hoping that it is him," she said.

Cpl. Daniel Holliday, the Bellefonte Police Department's officer in charge, said the department did nothing with the cell phone pictures, but that the pictures being published on Web sites did help to generate leads.

"We did not do any processing because we
do not have the capability at the police department," Holliday said. "The phone was sent
to the FBI [on Aug. 19] for possible enhance-
ment, but at this point there is no report back."

Tony Gricar, Ray Gricar's nephew, said family members do not think Ray Gricar is the man in the cell phone pictures. "My brother, as well as Ray's daughter and his first wife, do not think it is him," he added.

Holliday added that in addition to the cell phone pictures, the most important piece of information in the case was the discovery of Gricar's laptop computer July 30 in the Susquehanna River. When it was found, the laptop's hard drive was missing.

Centre County Sheriff Denny Nau said he doesn't think any illicit activity occurred, adding that the hard drive could have been removed by anyone, including Gricar.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

______________________________________________________

I have viewed this pictures as close as possible. I too do not believe they
are of Ray. I do see a slight likeness, but I can also associate a man as
such in the photo being associated to similiar looking men.

I think if it was Ray, his family would be sure. Sorry, I feel it will not be Ray when they do come out with a positive ID.

Hoping one day this mystery is solved so those that love Ray will be at
Peace.

G)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:17 pm    Post subject: Update ( sure we got news!!) Sept 4, 05 Reply with quote

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/special_packages/ray_gricar/12556820.htm


Ray Gricar
Posted on Sun, Sep. 04, 2005


Gricar family seeking answers

FBI continues to analyze photos taken at Texas restaurant

By Erin L. Nissley

enissley@centredaily.com


BELLEFONTE -- There's still no word on whether photos taken of a man at a Chili's restaurant in Texas last month are of Ray Gricar, who's been missing since April 15.

Bellefonte police Officer Darrel Zaccagni, leading the investigation into the disappearance of Centre County's district attorney, said he hopes to hear next week from FBI agents who are analyzing the images. Zaccagni said the agents are measuring the distance between facial features in the Texas photos and comparing them with such measurements taken from photos of Gricar.

The photos at the Chili's in Nacogdoches were taken by a female diner who spotted the man alone at a nearby table. She thought he looked enough like Gricar to surreptitiously take photos of him with her cell phone's camera.

The woman contacted police in her area a few days later and then got in touch with Bellefonte police.

She turned over her cell phone, which was then sent to the FBI.

But few involved in the case are hopeful that the man in the photos is Gricar.

The man appears to be eating with his left hand; Gricar is right-handed.

Also, the watch the man is wearing isn't the one Gricar was wearing when he disappeared and doesn't look like one that he would own, Zaccagni said.

"I've been able to clean up the pictures some, and I don't think it's him," said Tony Gricar, Ray Gricar's nephew. "I think there's a 1 percent chance the FBI will say it's a match."

Tony Gricar said he, his brother, Chris, and Ray Gricar's daughter, Lara, will be in town next week to meet with police.

"We'd like to get a general review, where we've been and where we're at," he said.

"We'd like to get a handle on the future of the investigation, too."

He expressed frustration at the lack of answers, although he's not faulting the police.

He'd like to see a bigger focus on the possibility that his uncle was killed, especially since the discovery on July 30 of Ray Gricar's missing laptop in the Susquehanna River.

"Law enforcement is still saying that nothing supports foul play, but I don't know what that means," Tony Gricar said. "I think (homicide) definitely needs to be looked at."

Zaccagni said that as time goes on, homicide becomes a more viable explanation for Ray Gricar's disappearance, especially because of how and where the laptop was found.

Fishermen found the laptop -- missing its hard drive -- directly under the state Route 45 bridge, according to police. There's only one side of the bridge that has a pedestrian walkway, Zaccagni said, and it's unlikely the computer could have been thrown from there and landed where it was found.

A vehicle driving on the non-pedestrian side would have had to slow or stop for the computer to be thrown into the water, Zaccagni said.

It would have been easier for a passenger to do that, he said.

Tony Gricar has been saying much the same thing since the laptop was found.

He'd like to see police focus more on how the laptop came to be in the river. "There's really nothing else to go off of," he said.

Ray Gricar's nephew isn't the only one frustrated by the waiting and wondering.

Ray Gricar's girlfriend and housemate, Patty Fornicola, said it's been hard to still not have any answers.

"The waiting is the tough part," she said. "But I don't know what else can be done. There's no leads. Where do you go?"

______________________________________


Comments: Wild Goose Chase here.

Can't wait for this to break rd!!!

Ray is in my thoughts always.

G)
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rd



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds me of Chandra's case, GG. When you expose the facts to the public you get a smarter analysis than that from law enforcement alone. Call it more eyes, call it a wider experience base, call it more time to focus on details, call it what you will. But when the facts are made known, the public makes valuable contributions to the investigation.

That was a Greta cable tv viewer who pointed out that Gricar was eating left handed as posted by Greta and quoted here by you, GG, that made it into the news as part of the analysis.

We have long advocated the public disclosure of as much information as possible for the public to be able to potentially move analysis of the case along, especially in a cold case like Chandra's, but the DC police refuse to divulge what information they have, probably to cover up their lack of investigation.

Here we have an intelligent police force analyzing Gricar's case, and still the family is concerned about the hesitance to openly deal with this as murder as Chandra's family was.

A good police force such as this one would argue they are doing the same whether it was openly considered murder or not. I have to agree here. They've dealt with it seriously, given lie detector tests, and I think they just have nothing to investigate whether it was called murder or not.

Some cases are cold because they are cold. I can't say the same for Chandra's case.

rd
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: comments and another article. Reply with quote

rd: I think disclosures, (espically in a case such as Chandra's, and Rays/Luna's) should be open to the family and other interested parties. In Chandra's for the obvious reasons and it involves govt. officials. (this is the reason for lack of disclosure- probably the same for Mr. Luna, I feel).

In Rays case- The dept. may be doing all it can as to following through, I'm not really sure. Maybe at the start of the case, if the matter was looked at closer, (not considered from the point that Ray may have killed himself, walked off, etc.) they may be closer to a conclusion. I don't know if I can second guess. They seem to be a better dept. of LE.

I don't always distrust LE. There are many good LE out there in various cities. There are too many that like to be paid off, ignore the poor, the cases they find too hard to deal with, those that involve their OWN CRIMES, the gov't, etc. This is sad.

I have a bad feeling that Ray may become a cold case.

----------------Article from today...

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/12568422.htm

Months later, D.A.'s fate remains a riddle

Larry Eichel


BELLEFONTE, Pa. - It's been almost five months now since the Friday morning in April when Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar left his home in this mountainside county seat and drove east on Route 192.

And then disappeared.

His car was found the next night in Lewisburg, 60 miles from home, in a dirt parking lot near the Susquehanna River.

To this day, investigators have no idea what happened to him or how they might find out.

There is the possibility that Gricar, 59, who called his live-in girlfriend from the road to say only he wouldn't be home to take out the dog at noon, ended his own life.

Or that he decided to walk away from it all. Or was murdered, perhaps by someone he had prosecuted or was about to.

Some folks in town think he is in the witness protection program, though they can't tell you why he would be.

But the passage of time and the discovery of a key piece of evidence five weeks ago - Gricar's laptop computer, fished out of the Susquehanna River in Lewisburg - have caused those closest to the case to believe that he's dead.

"I think it's a homicide," said Bellefonte Police Officer Darrel Zaccagni, the frustrated lead investigator in the case, who has sought the help of the state police, the FBI, the Attorney General's Office, and a psychic from California.

There are no prime suspects. Then again, at this point, this is still a missing persons case.

"We really aren't holding out any hope that he's definitely alive," said Tony Gricar, a Dayton, Ohio, businessman, Ray's nephew, and the family spokesman. "It's a question of scenarios and closure."

When Gricar didn't come home that day in April, and when his red-and-white Mini Cooper was found in a dirt parking lot near the Susquehanna, the suicide theory had a lot of believers. The family, after all, has a history of suicide; nine years earlier, Ray's brother, Tony's dad, had taken his life by jumping into a river.

As the weeks passed, though, and the body didn't turn up, authorities showed more interest in the idea that Gricar might have left on his own. One reason had to do with the man himself.

Even after 20 years as district attorney, Gricar was an enigma in Bellefonte. Colleagues and acquaintances described him as a very private man who came across as stern, distant, even cold. So who knew what was going on inside his head?

And there were the sightings.

Someone who looked like Gricar was seen in Wilkes-Barre, at a restaurant in Southfield, Mich., at a grocery store in Columbus, Ohio, at a convenience store in Maryland, even in the audience of The Oprah Winfrey Show in Chicago.

None of those sightings checked out.

The most intriguing came in early August at a Chili's restaurant in Lukfin, Texas. There, a local woman, who had recently seen a story about the case on television, saw a man resembling Gricar eating alone.

Using the camera in her cell phone, she took photographs before engaging him in conversation and establishing he was from out of town. She sent the images to the local police, who forwarded them to Bellefonte.

Gricar's girlfriend, Patti Fornicola, thought the man in the pictures might be Ray. But his daughter in Seattle, his nephews in Ohio, and his ex-wife in Bellefonte did not. The FBI is analyzing the images; its report is expected this week.

To the family, though, the idea that Gricar would walk away never made sense. He was close to his daughter and his nephews. He was in apparent good health and was preparing to retire with a substantial pension.

At year's end, he would be free to go wherever he wanted. What would be the point of walking away in April, and where was the evidence that he had done so? None of his clothes were gone, and there had been no activity on his credit cards or bank accounts.

Besides, several days before the sighting in Texas, two men fishing in the Susquehanna had discovered a key piece of evidence - Gricar's county-issued laptop computer - lodged against a bridge support several hundred yards from where his car had been found in April.

"That really knocked me for a loop," Tony Gricar said. "It took me right back to the first day my uncle went missing."

And the computer's hard drive, which might have held the secret of the district attorney's disappearance, had been removed.

Had he removed it himself? Or was it done by someone else - someone responsible for whatever happened?

While there is no way of knowing, a lot of people in Bellefonte are inclined to think the questions answer themselves.

"To me," Zaccagni said, "it looks more and more like a homicide by someone who planned this out, lured Ray to a meeting, got him to bring the computer, and then took the time to do something with the body so it wouldn't be found."

This week, family members will gather in Bellefonte to get a progress report, try to generate some publicity, and figure out what to do next. But unless some new piece of evidence surfaces, or the FBI can say definitively that the man at the Chili's in Texas was the missing district attorney, the mystery will remain unsolved.

"No one has any idea what Ray was working on or what he might have stumbled across," said Denise Elbell, the assistant county administrator. "Ray didn't seem to be under any stress, but with Ray, how would you know? You hope for a good outcome but the longer it goes..."

If Gricar isn't coming back, then his nephew hopes that it was a suicide. "I know it sounds odd to say that," he said. "But you wouldn't want any family member to go through what Ray must have gone through if someone did kill him. With a suicide, it's your choice and your methods. That's better than someone else's."

Better still would be for Ray Gricar to walk into his office one morning and start explaining where he has been.

"It doesn't make any sense that the police can't come up with any clues - in the TV shows, they always come up with something," said Allison Iadarola, who runs a restaurant across the street from the courthouse. "I hope they solve it soon so that the family can be at rest.


G)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:31 am    Post subject: updates + Comments Reply with quote

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/+
news/special_packages/ray_gricar/12658311.htm


Posted on Fri, Sep. 16, 2005



R E L A T E D C O N T E N T

Michelle Klein/CDT
Lara Gricar, the daughter of missing Centre County District Attorney, listens during a press conference on April 25, 2005 at the Bellefonte, PA Borough Building.


R E L A T E D L I N K S
• Complete coverage ...
• NEW: Ray Gricar Q&A



Gricar's daughter passes polygraph

Police consider giving test to other relatives

By Erin L. Nissley

enissley@centredaily.com


BELLEFONTE -- The daughter of missing District Attorney Ray Gricar passed a polygraph test that sought to determine whether she knew anything about, or had anything to do with, her father's April 15 disappearance.

According to Bellefonte police Officer Darrel Zaccagni, Lara Gricar took a polygraph test when she was in town last week visiting her mother, Barbara Gray. The test was given by the same two Secret Service agents that administered a polygraph test to Ray Gricar's girlfriend and housemate Patty Fornicola in July.

"We wanted to be proactive," Zaccagni said. "If this was a homicide, we'd automatically look at close family. And from our point of view, if he's still out there, you have to ask who he'd contact first."

Lara Gricar, who lives in Seattle, said she offered to take a polygraph test months ago. But she wasn't prepared for how stressful it was.

"It was not enjoyable, that's for sure," she said. "There was all sorts of stuff, from 'Do you know where your dad is?' to 'Has he contacted you?' "

Police are also considering giving polygraph tests to Ray Gricar's nephews, Tony and Chris, as well as Gricar's two ex-wives, Barbara Gray and Emma, whose last name has not been made public. None are considered suspects in Gricar's disappearance, Zaccagni said.

"We don't know if he's willingly missing, or if it's a suicide or homicide," Zaccagni said. "We want to have something ready for down the road ... to rule them out for having any contact" with Ray Gricar.

Gricar was last heard from on April 15, when he called his office and spoke to Fornicola at about 11:30 a.m. The red-and-white Mini Cooper he was driving was found in Lewisburg the next day.

Meanwhile, police are still waiting to hear from the FBI about the results of analysis of photos taken of a man seen dining at a Chili's in Nacogdoches, Texas, last month.

The woman who took the photos with her cell phone thought the man resembled Gricar and turned the phone over to Bellefonte police several weeks ago.

"Unofficially, the FBI doesn't think it's him," Zaccagni said. "But they're not willing to commit to that until the analysis is done."

Erin L. Nissley can be reached at 231-4616

____________________________________________________

Also Noted: I saw Ray's Family the other night discussing the poly. tests on TV. It may have been Greta, not sure. They are so classy. They understood perfectly why they had to be taken, etc.

Prayers for Ray.

Read the next update, all.

GG)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:39 am    Post subject: Pictures Not Ray Reply with quote

Well, I don't think many of us were shocked here, (at least me and rd) and Ray's family but we are glad to know anyway.

Still, much admiration for the woman in Texas who took the time to snap the photos of the man she thought was Ray. Thank you for being a great citizen. Ray, out here thinking of you.


http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/12697238.htm

(have to sign in for the account)


Associated Press

Sept. 20, 2005

FBI: Man in Texas photos is not missing Pa. district attorney

BELLEFONTE, Pa. - The man in photographs taken at a Texas restaurant last month isn’t missing Centre County District Attorney Ray F. Gricar, police said Tuesday.

A woman dining at a Nacagdoches, Texas restaurant in early August snapped the pictures after striking up a conversation with the man. She said he resembled Gricar and gave the photos to police, who asked the public for help and sent the pictures to the FBI for analysis.

An FBI report Monday concluded that the man in the photos isn’t Gricar, said Bellefonte Police Office Darrel Zaccagni, who is leading the investigation.
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