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Missing in Utah Monday
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 630
Location: northern illinois

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and dreams of bubba dancing in his head ...


nanci
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rd



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually that's on his head, nanci...

rd
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lololol!! you're good, kiddo ... and quick, too!!


nanci
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if Scottie and Marko get the same cell, with BABBA as their neighbour! As Jackie Gleason would say, HOW SWEET IT IS!
Perhaps Martha will give them some decorating tips for free for as community service time done while in jail.

I must say, I do think an awlful to doo was made out of dear Martha compare to all the other crap that goes on around us, and a big waste of the courts time and money. I believe she should have been hit in the pocket book, like other wealth people who pull these stunts, a 1/2 million dollar fine would have done it, and if they want to argue, pay all the court fees, both sides if you loose. Now there is an option! A way out, to cough up the truth, and save allot of embarrassment and money, and waste of the tax payers resources of court.

If Marko pleads insanity, I won't be able to stand it, while they drag X-rays out about when he got the brain concussion, and the yadda yadda, and how Mommy and Daddy wanted him to succeed so badly that he went insane and murdered his wife. She shouldn't have said she was leaving me, the devil possessed her and I had to stop her from doing the wrong thing of leaving me, is something Wacko Marko is likely to say?!

What will Scottie say! You don't except me to have paid alimony all my life, I never wanted a kid anyway. Laci wouldn't give me the money to play golf, I had to steal it! How do you think that made me feel? And Laci didn't want me to see other women?!


Enough of my jesting, my Birthday made me do it!
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jane



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy birthday, Katey!
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
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Location: northern illinois

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

same here, kate ... hope you've had a good one!

your points are well taken, too, even though you have expressed them humorously ... if mark pleads insanity, that will only prove the insanity of his attorney for thinking such a lame line would stand up to the scrutiny of 12 jurors. anyone who is alert enough to be chosen as a juror will be able to easily see that mark was plenty sane enough to figure out a way to effectively get rid of the evidence of his crime that he left on the body of his dead wife ... if he went crazy and killed her, he went suddenly sane when it came to dumping her body.

you've called it plenty accurately on scott, too ... i just have a fit that the prosecution is determined to try this case on the basis of his motive being his love for amber, which is literally impossible for narcissistic psychopaths like him. i guarantee you that his motive for killing laci was exactly what you've said, he didn't want a kid and the responsibilities of parenting ... scott peterson has never loved anyone but himself, and amber frey was only the latest in the long string of women he had incorporated in his life for entertainment value.

for that matter, laci was only a prop in his warped life drama, too, and he had no interest in playing the part of the good daddy ... the scenario had changed in scott's life, and he didn't like the new lines he was supposed to read, so he brought the curtain down on the whole show. i also still have a sneaking suspicion that scott was involved in the crystal meth business that thrives in the modesto area and laci found out about that ... i never have thought enough investigation was done around his fertilizer business dealings.

however, the prosecution has not said a word about that, so i can't really come up with evidence that is as strong as my hunch ... i sure would give my eye teeth to get my hands on his inventory and sales records, though, and i'd love to know what went on between scott and the international representatives of his company the last time they met. the one thing i know for sure is that scott peterson didn't commit this depraved act out of love for anyone other than scott peterson because he's never loved anyone but scott peterson, and he never will.


nanci
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laskipper



Joined: 17 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy Birthday, Kate!
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the birthday wishes!

Nanci yes the hallmark of a sociopath, that they cannot love anyone but themselves. I'm certain that Amber's life would have been in jeapordy has she remained with Scott, as Scott discards people other people would get rid of dirty socks.

I agree Nanci that Laci was choosen for her worth in worldly goods, such as case in point her grandmother's estate. Scott would have known that Laci was an heiress, no question. The first time Scott would have met Nanny Rocha the dollars signs lit in his eyes.

Last night I read the other phone messages of Scott's, I may have missed some as my approach was random. These tapes are incredulously boring.

Scott does some interesting verbal tap dances when Amber asked it he caused Laci to disappear. Amber asked Scott if he has anything to do with killing Laci, Scott claims outrage, then he says, you know me better than this, and then they banter about this, Scott's ultimate response to Amber's comment, you know me better than that. Amber says how would I know that re: Scott being a liar. Scott replies, "The only way you can know that is just by knowing."

Amber is trying to tell Scott that she Christened a floor, spilt a drink on a new floor at a party over tiles!? Scott says laughing, Crashed into it like with your car? How off the wall is this, he was understanding perfectly clear up to that point, Christened a floor, guess this can sound like crashed. But he thought this was funny, and why would anyone ever find it funny the thoughts that someone may have crashed their car. This guy Scott is very creepy.

The investigation, well this is enough to give one a stroke. Too bad we did not have a pile of money. Would love to go with about three to five people in a boat at night to where Laci's body was dumped. And march through several possible scenarios. Just to prove Scott could have dumped Laci's body any number of ways. Wonder what the weather was the 24th early in the morning, at around 3:00. I suspect it was quiet calm, the calm before the storm. We assume Scott was alone? This may not be so! This is a huge assumption. There maybe a number of reasons why we might never know if Scott acted alone, the second or third person ties to organized crime.

Scott could have acted alone, he just did not dump Laci's body in broad day light, he did this the night before and only arrived home in the morning.

Another reason we might not be getting all the information is that Trade Corp. who is trying to lay a foundation of sales in the United States, would not want their company involved in a scandal where their materials were being sold for use in the drug trade or explosives. There is the possibility of payoffs for silence. There is the possibility of fear to touch the big boys. Scott may have been involved in major crime and the Fed's are investigating the case and do not want the lid blown off their case.

This is all speculation, but there is plenty that is hidden, around Scott's other life, that it seems he had to abruptly get out of his life. The fire arm boys, from the Fed's would have or should have paid Scott a visit, also the fire department, also the year end was approaching and it was reckoning time. Scott had slipped out the $24,000.00. He owed money to Internal Revenue, and so on. Somebody was onto Scott, his new employee does not seem to have allot of faith in Scott, they had falsified information to gain credit. Scott's was likely going to take as much money with him when he blew Dodge as he could, surely he was not expecting to do business as usual in Modesto. Mexico, Spain, South America.

The robbers are too conveniently there, and when they first came around allegedly at 0300 on Christmas eve, and were checking out houses, they were scared off by Scott being outside. However, we are to believe that when they came back the second time to rob the house on the 26th, that they were undaunted by all the action of everyone looking for Laci that was taking place, and they lifted a safe in broad daylight to their car along with other stuff they stole.

This seems more than incredulous. By the 26th it would have been public knowledge that Laci was missing. It seems to me the one thing that ex-cons/cons do is listen to the news on the radio, and while they are hanging out, the TV is usually playing in the background, and news is one thing they keep up with, it means everything, they don't want to be robbing a bank in a neighboorhood that was robbed the same day or the day before, it doesn't work. In the world cons live in, news is part of their life line, to know where the police are at all times.

There is no question that the cons would be facing the third strike rule in California, this is their home, and they look mean and through and through gangsters, rounders, drug addictions. Pure and simple they are hardened criminals. Likely they very much known to the system of Modesto frequent fliers to the police station.

The Modesto police would know of these dudes connections in a heart beat, these boys would be regularily rounded up when there was a major heist of jewels in the community, likely the fence notified the police, or the pawnshop owner call the parole office, we know someone turned them in.

It maybe possible that these robbers helped Scott, we know that they were on the scene while Scott was getting Laci ready for the journey to Brooks Island. They would have no alibi these robbers other than themselves for the time that Laci likely died. I think that there is allot more than what meets the eye here.

I'd think that these boys should pass through a lie detector test, and allot more questions asked. Certainly as a condition of freedom for the boys, no to a lie detector test would not be an option, that their freedom would be held in the balance. Perhaps the goons were given a lie detector test. These are the types of individuals who could likely bust a lie detector test as lying would be second nature, a fine art.

The jewelery in Scott's house was laid out for the taking, with the door opened, I believe the robbers were to get the jewels at the Peterson's. It defies belief the irony of what the robbers took across the street as to what they could have had at the Peterson's had they just waited the morning of the 24th until Scott left with the body. I'm certain that the Jewels were laid out on the table in plain view for the robbers, but the police were on to Scott way too soon, something went wrong with the timing.

Perhaps when the boys arrived to help they wanted nothing to do with the murder, and backed out, and Scott told them about the house across the street, it fits, the robbers were in the area at the time Scott was moving Laci, they have said they were there at 0300. Scott likely moved Laci out of the house at this time, whether he went to the Warehouse or directly to the Brooke's Island area is unclear.

The robbers need to get on the stand. Absolutely for sure. They need a polygraph. I'm certain there is a link. I just know that there is one heck of a pile that we do not know about Scott Peterson. Perhaps Scott was in Death Valley, perhaps this is where his customers for anhydrous ammonia have their operations, but of course methamphedimine, crystal meth, is produced by the tons in death valley, it is seclusive, and I'm sure that one does not want to take the wrong turn in the hills of death valley.
There is a whole lot of shaken going on their likely, scary thoughts. Perhaps this dame from the enquirer did see Scott in Death Valley and simply elaborated on the, weigh down the wife with anchors story.

Scott's gas charges and work logs should be examined? The police should have a look at his business clients and where they lived, this should be a matter of record if he has access to ammonia and other explosive chemicals.

Nanci it is tragic how much crime has taken over our lives and the havoc that is reaked by illegal chemicals and medication, those profiting by this trade reach up to people in high places. It is so out of control that the bloody army should be brought in, at the sea ports, at the production places, increases in fines, stipe the person of everything they own, including their wives estates. Their bill has to be paid or jail. This prevents opening up new operations and cripples financially those who are caught.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into things that are simply a coincidence, however I've no faith that the police have done an adequate job of investigating this case, so it is difficult to believe that the robbers and Scott are not associated in some way.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lori can rest in peace now. Her family will take a lot longer to find peace in their hearts, if ever.

rd

from www.cnn.com (fair use)

Hacking case police find remains
Not clear whether remains are missing woman's
Oct. 1, 2004

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (AP) -- Police on Friday recovered human remains at a landfill where investigators have been searching for the body of Lori Hacking, the missing Utah woman whose husband is charged in her death.

It was not immediately clear whether the remains were those of Hacking, 27, who has not been seen since July 18.

Authorities have spent weeks combing through 4,600 tons of trash for any sign of Hacking, whose husband, Mark, reported her missing the following day, saying she never returned from a morning jog.

Hacking has been charged with murder and allegedly confessed to his brothers that he shot his wife while she slept and disposed of her body, the weapon and a mattress in a trash bin.

He is being held on $1 million bail at the Salt Lake County jail.
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Kortnie



Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 199
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject: Lori Reply with quote

Saw that this evening, rd. But, it is clear that i's Lori. Dental records have been checked. That's the report I read. Mark Hacking should be carved up and boiled in oil.
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks heavens that Lori's parents cannow bury her after the autopsy. Well it is a slam dunk case of Mark's guilty. Likely his lawyer will plead the insanity defense. It would be much better if there was no trial and that he pleaded guilty. This would say Lori's parent allot of heart ache.


Mark likely figured after all this time that the police had given up their search, now if the Modesto police force would take a few pointers from the Utah force, they just might find the anchors Scott made to sink his wife. Finding Lori's body in several thousand tons of trash, one has to wonder that it seems likely the police should be able to find the anchors in a small portion of San Franciso Bay....
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>>Mark likely figured after all this time that the police had given up their search, now if the Modesto police force would take a few pointers from the Utah force, they just might find the anchors Scott made to sink his wife. Finding Laci's body in several thousand tons of trash, one has to wonder that it seems likely the police should be able to find the anchors in a small portion of San Franciso Bay...<<<

kate, well there are a lot more things that can be done probably in any murder case, but how much can the State afford to keep paying for all of these cases? There is no limitless source of money to do these things. You are in Canada, kate, but couldn't your hospital use a little more money, rather than spending the money on legal investigations?

I don't remember how you stand on capital punishment, kate, but the failure of law enforcement to be able to do everything sort of indicates to me that justice should be quick and severe. Scott Peterson if convicted, and given the death penealty, could linger on appealing from prison for about 19 years, if he appeals correctly.

I don't see any records showing the relationship of murders to executions. Maybe I can find some. In the mid 1950s a young teenager was murdered in Berkeley, California. I have mentioned this case before. Within about three years of the murder the murderer had been convicted and executed. This was a case with enough evidence to point exsactly at the murderer. The body was found in a shallow grave very near to his summer cottage, and property of the victim had been found in his house. Without looking at any records I still don't think that there were as many murders in the 1950s in California per capita as there are today when more laws protect the murderer.

Canada does not execute murderers, if I remember correctly. How are the murder rates doing in Canada, kate? Are there any records of murders and executions in Canada that might show some kind of a trend?

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

benn, you will not be happy with what you find. Most Western countries do not have the death penalty, and most have lower murder rates than the US. They also do not allow guns as we do.

This gets the foaming at the mouth conservatives fired up to condemn the socialist evil of all that is not compound Amerika but that's the kind of thing you'll run into trying to find correlations. It is very complex, and there are many factors. It would be hard to show that executions deter murder, much less speedy ones.

kate, not only did the police continue searching, but they used volunteers to help. This is a lesson that both the DC and Modesto police should take heed of.

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benn funny you should ask about the murder rates, the data was announced Thursday night and the stats are down to a thirty years low.
This alone is likely due to the Pickton Pig Farm Murderer being behind bars, and that piece of mmmm was likely killing girls and leaving them places long before he started dragging them home and putting them in a chooper and feeding the remains to the pigs. Also with Paul Bernardo forever behind bars, it is anywonder the murder rate has declined.

I do not believe in mercy for these men, we will leave both Mercy and God to these gentlemen. The best to hope for is that these men might learn while they are alive the terrible things that they have done to other people. I wish on them a conscience, to the fullest. This would be punishment enough, although we know this will not happen Benn, this is wishful thinking. I believe first and foremost castration for both Bernardo and The Pickton Pig. I'll leave revenge to God and to those families who have lost their loved ones, to ensure that no matter how long they live they will never get out of prison.

I think too that there is no way that prisoners like these men, and Mark Hacking or Scott Peterson deserve any comforts whatso ever, and it is a disgrace to our justice system that Homoko will be set free from prison in a few short years. It is obvious from some footage that I saw on Television of Homoko with Bernardo's captives alone, that she is every bit as guilty as her husband.

Perhaps the decision for sentencing should be left in part the victims families. Perhaps it should be up to the victim's families entirely??

Ashamedly for certain crimes, there can be no mercy, for infatimas, where women and children are slain with outcause or provocation then there can only be death, and castration is mandatory. The problem is that the legal system is all wrong, it is broken, absolutely doesn't work. There are cases of course of justice in the courts. But by and large the system makes no sense. This needs to change.

Where there is only circumstantial evidence or eye witnesses that are suspect or unreliable, or maybe paid or coerced to lie, then this becomes a moral issue when sentencing someone to murder, guilty is one thing, but to be absolutely certain is another at least if a man's life is held in the balance.

It's a quandry, first with the legal system which accomodates rich or famous people, and those with power then there is the whole element and network of investigation and detective work in law enforcement which needs total revamping and training with the inclusion of a better watch dog withing the systems of law.

There are problems coming to absolute guilty which is what is required for a death sentence, and in order to get this; forensic evidence is needed. Good detective work and this can only be accomplished through better training and more resources. I think it is cheaper to spend monies on more law enforcement and better training and facilities than it is to keep hardened criminals in jail over and over again. Therefore part of law enforcement must deal with rehabilitation, and a war on drugs, especially methamphedimine and crack cocaine, cocaine, and heroine, and other powerful narcotics must have stricter control and punishments for offenders, take their property, none of this transfering property in the wife's name. Most crimes are about money or drugs, however the number of sexual crimes seems to me to have hit an all time level especially children. The laws must change regarding punishment and protection of people who have injured children, they should be castrated, as the victim is forever scared, if they are so lucky to be alive.

Benn I'll agree with the death sentence when I'm absolutely sure a person is guilty, like Bernardo, Pickton, Hacking. I'm undecided about Peterson and Condit, and others.

In conclusion Benn it is cheaper to create a more efficient and accessible law enforcement and justice system than it is to house prisoners. If people had to pay with property and monies and by being castrated or having a frontal labotomy ....a person is likely to think twice or more before commitings such crimes and executing those who we know are absolutely guilty of henious crimes. I think a few deterents would decrease the number of murders. Nothing like thinking you'll be living your life out on the outside, with a labotomy and crastrated to curb impluses to commit murders. Somepeople want to be put out of their misery. But to give money and Mercy to the Olson family and similar tales is an outrage against humanity. Justice should be swift and exacting and available to all, it should not depend that your name is Kennedy or Bush or whatever. The legal system to be is the biggest form of corruption that there is going, not that the lawyers are the crooks, it just makes no sense, it all rotates around monies.

There is no question that I believe that in a heart beat that a case could be put together of circumstantial evidence in Chandra's case to bring this crime to trial with Gary as the defense. However, we see through blundered investigations and through political deference that Gary Condit has not been made to stand before the public and give account of his whereabouts, and why he waited two days to contact the police when he knew Chandra was missing and that he failed to tell the truth to the Levees.

Not to critize your legal system, but one way in this Country that a poor person can have a case of death or corruption initiated is through a public enquiry. All countries should have this. For example, Condit would not be able to not answer questions, or else it would be recommended for a complete investigation. Also the spending of his political monies, Condit would not have been able to do this, there would have been a public enquiry into his spending, on legal fees and to his children and the raises that he gave to his employees shortly after Chandra went missing.

Also in this case had the police spent the resources to find Chandra's body then it is likely that we would have some forensic evidence. But this case has dragged on so long, it is likely that this amount of money that has been spent, it would likely have been cheaper in the long run to spend it on searching the park more throughoughly initially.

That is to say that Chandra was there when the park was searched, I have real trouble to believe that Chandra died in the park and that she was in that exact spot since the time of her death to the time that she was found.

Capital punishment in certain cases most definately Benn. iId like to believe that there is justice, but it is said, that it is not of this world but in the next. This belief has existed a very very long time, and never has there been a time in recorded history that this belief has not exisited so I know I'm not alone with this belief.

quote



Canada's Murder Rate in 2003 Drops to 30-Year Low

Wed Sep 29, 4:55 PM ET World - Canada



OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's murder rate dropped to 30-year low last year, and is less than one-third of that in the United States, according to official figures released on Wednesday.



Statistics Canada said the murder rate -- 1.73 victims per 100,000 people -- was down 7 percent from 2003, continuing a trend that's been going on for three decades.


By contrast, preliminary figures released two weeks ago showed the U.S. murder rate rose 1.3 percent to 5.6 victims per 100,000, holding at levels similar to those in the late 1960s.


"The (Canadian) homicide rate has generally been declining since the mid-1970s," Statistics Canada said in its daily bulletin. Last year police reported 548 murders, 34 fewer than in 2002.


Canada, which tends to pride itself on being a less violent country than its southern neighbor, has much more restrictive gun control laws than those in many individual U.S. states.


But even so, just under one-third of the murders were committed with a firearm, a similar level to that in previous years, Statscan said. Twenty-six percent of the murders were stabbings, 22 percent were beatings and 12 percent strangulation or suffocation.


The rate was lower than the 1.93 victims per 100,000 people recorded in England and Wales but slightly higher than the figures for France and Australia.


Canadian police said one in every seven homicides in 2003 involved organized crime or street gangs, while only 14 percent of victims were murdered by strangers.


"Consistent with earlier years, two out of every three adults accused of homicide in 2003 had a criminal record. Most had been previously convicted of a violent offense," said Statistics Canada.


Last years' numbers could be skewed by the fact that most of the female victims of an alleged serial killer in the western province of British Columbia were counted in the 2002 figures, when a man was arrested and the women's status changed from "missing."


The new data showed there were 33 fewer murders in British Columbia in 2003 than in 2002, while the number of murdered women across Canada fell by 50.


Pig farmer Robert Pickton is facing trial for 22 murders, and is still under investigation in connection with the disappearance of more than 60 women from Vancouver's Downtown Eastside over the past decade.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in part of a fast-growing region north of Toronto and I think the murder rate here has been going up - usually seems to be drug-related and with knives. I've heard of gun deaths in Toronto - probably drug-related. When I was a kid the murder rate was much lower than today (I was born in 1953) - any murder within the province of Ontario was big news. Now it's commonplace. If the murder rate really has peaked and will continue in a downward direction, I'll be very glad, of course - but at this point I'm skeptical.
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