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Another missing woman/girl-Joanna Rogers, 16, of Lubbock, TX
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, but we don't have any missing women threads for San Diego. This thread started out for a young woman missing from her bedroom, then another young woman who lived and worked nearby missing from her home, then a series of prostitutes missing, and now two more middle aged women missing.

This thread is getting a little out of hand. And it's about Lubbock.

The only other area that I could compare is Atlanta, if you throw in Tara Grinstead in southern Ga. But really not even close to Lubbock.

Welcome Lattemoon, and we beat the rush, we appreciate you and your insight. :)

rd
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Lattemoon



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Lubbock

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the appreciation, Ralph. I didn't mean to get psycho defending "my town". The thread is not about turf war, that's for sure. I have lived here for 16 years and the people and lifestyle are so awesome. I grew up, incidentally, in northeast GA, about 50 miles from Atlanta, and Lubbock is the Garden of Eden compared to the crime there. Of course, Lubbock is MUCH smaller than Atlanta, and Atlanta is much more geographically beautiful than Lubbock, and yadayadayada.

Anyway, I had the unique experience of participating in the search this past Sunday for the missing women, and it's not everywhere you find people willing to come together like they do in Lubbock, TX.

My prayers to both these families. Today's identification is ominous news for both these families and all of us in Lubbock as well.
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Nan



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 207
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lattemoon. Nice to see you here.

If Lubbock had over 3 million people as does San Diego, I'd still have a bit of a time swallowing the number of missing women in the news (though I suspect a lot of them never make the news here). But in a town the size of Lubbock, at about 200,000, to have so many go missing as they have and/or turn up violently murdered in only a few years is just staggering.

At some point I found stats that show Lubbock has a violent crime rate per capita at twice the national average. There's something seriously wrong there somewhere for that to be the case. I know when I lived in Dallas I felt much less safe than when I lived in Lubbock, but -technically- I was a hell of a lot safer in Dallas given the crime rate v. population. I think it was because when I lived in Lubbock there wasn't a lot of crime news coverage - I certainly didn't hear much when I was there (though I was not paying a lot of attention, being busy either working or studying).

Yes, that's something that is good about Lubbock. There are always people who will turn out to search for a missing person or for another good cause. All one has to do is ask and the help is there. I'm sure the Sheriff's Office will have all the volunteers it needs, if it needs to ever ask for them, once they start to dig for Joanna (and whomever else is in there).
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TJ



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 75
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nan wrote:
I'm sure the Sheriff's Office will have all the volunteers it needs, if it needs to ever ask for them, once they start to dig for Joanna (and whomever else is in there).


Actually, I've heard that the SO has already turned down offers of assistance from people who are trained for that type of search, because of liability. The landfill is an entirely different type of search, needing protective clothing, an understanding of how to deal with exposure to chemicals, sources of possibly dangerous materials, medical waste, etc. I understand they have been in contact with several groups, getting a good overview of the risks and techniques needed to conduct such a search.

Even regular searches have attendant risks, depending on the area searched. Dehydration, heat stroke, rattlesnakes, wild dogs or animals, falling down barns and/or farmhouses, cesspools not clearly marked, even getting disoriented and lost if not following proper procedure, angry/paranoid property owners, etc - all these add to the risk.

Something also not often considered is how you may be affected if you find something. Consider the gentleman who found a headless, mutilated body last weekend. Might his dreams be disturbed for a while?

This isn't meant to discourage any from volunteering, but as a tribute to those who do so selflessly give of their time and energy to help those in need. It is one of the times that bring out the best in people, often when they have just had an example of the worst in people. At one search for Jo and Jen, I saw a couple of elderly people using canes to walk, but they were looking, side by side with teenagers with tatoos and body piercing, people from every class and race with a common goal. At a time when many are shaking their heads wondering what is wrong with the human race, there are always those who are willing to show what is right with it. It gives one hope for the future.
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TJ



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 75
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/082206/loc_082206029.shtml

Last week, police searched the home and vehicle belonging to a 56-year-old Lubbock State School employee matching the description of the man last seen with Harrelson and Merimon.

State School Superintendent Nancy Condon said the man, who police have called a person of interest in the women's disappearance, has worked at the school for many years.

During extensive interviews with the man, police detectives found inconsistencies in his testimony, according to court documents.

The man told police he left the school alone between 12:30 and 12:45 p.m. on Aug. 9 and went home sick for the rest of the day. But surveillance video taken at his residence indicates he came home at 12:03 a.m. with a person in the passenger's seat of his car.

Police will not comment on what, if any, evidence was collected during the search of the man's house and vehicle.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ wrote ...I saw a couple of elderly people using canes to walk, but they were looking, side by side with teenagers with tatoos and body piercing, people from every class and race with a common goal. At a time when many are shaking their heads wondering what is wrong with the human race, there are always those who are willing to show what is right with it. It gives one hope for the future.
That brought tears to my eyes.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re TJ's last post - looks like they have their man.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it was work related as kate thought. Hats off to you, kate, this did not look like the doings of a co-worker to me.

I'm sure two women didn't think so either. One's still missing.

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is odd rd, these women having worked with him, they would have some knowledge into the type of person he was, so why these women would then get into his car is very very puzzling. My guess is that he may have been stalking one of them, my guess is Kay...so why then does Peggy come along. Unless he was stalking them both.

As both women were data entry clerks, the only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps one of these women became aware that this dude might have been stealing something from their employer...but why confront the
individual as this is the management's responsibility.

I wonder if these women had perhaps ordered food, and the dude was a goofer, and was delivering it...this seems like the most likely senario, given that it was lunch time, and the other is that as stated previously they were going for a walk.

Someone so brazen as to capture two women, tells me that he likely has been violent to other women before, perhaps a DNA comparison might yeild a correlationship between the murdered women found by the road side in recent years. It is hard to fathom that one's first violation of women began at 56 and with two women.

The fact that he took lunch at the time of the abduction and did not return in the afternoon, sure looks convincing that law enforcement has their man.

Now what of POOR PEGGY. My guess is that she tried to exit the car, and was murdered on route to the house, someone had to be by the driver's door, and there would not be any automatic locks on an old rust bucket like he was driving...my guess is that Peggy is in a ditch and never made it to the house, and if not she is likely somewhere close to Kay, perhaps in the opposite direction....perp not wanting to leave the two bodies together...

The perp is not an intelligent person as he leaves his underware and shirt on the body of Kay, not too smart, and that he was seen leaving with these women.

We shall see what unfolds, it looks very poor that Peggy is still alive, unless he has her held captive in a cabin somewhere near, however, if the dude is in custody there is no one to bring her water or food, unless of course there is an accomplice, which might be entirely possible.

Also, when he went home, there was only one person reported being seen in the car. Wonder if the police have searched the route from their place of work to his house! Likely so, since they have this information that only one appeared to be in the car. The next thing would be to check out any connections this dude has, other possible perps, cousins, neighbours, brothers, friends

Wonder if there is any water on route!
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TJ



Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 75
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kate,

According to Peggy's son when interviewed on Greta V last night, it appeared that both women got into the vehicle willingly.

He is not in custody. He has been interviewed several times, warrants to search his car and house have been served, and items taken for investigation, but he is not in custody. He claims that both women had been in his house in the last few months. There is no record of them logging in to the complex, so if true, it had to be with him. I don't know if the video record goes back far enough to prove that statement, but I would not think so.

They do know he lied about what time he left the campus. The time line is confusing, but it appears that a short time after he claims to have left, video only shows one other person in the vehicle. Possibly the other was in the back, either laying down or unconscious?
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Lattemoon



Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Lubbock

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Missing women Reply with quote

Okay, I hope I can remember all the points I want to ask questions about. First of all, before I forget, a couple of the stories are conflicting about whether they're talking about 12 a.m. or 12 p.m. It's different in two or three different stories and locations. The first one I read indicated he left around noon and, although he said he went straight home sick, the surveillance video showed him returning around midnight with one passenger. But now I'm getting that it was 12 noonish, right after he purportedly left the State School. If that's the case, he couldn't have had time to do anything different with Peggy than take her straight to his home also. Does anyone know exactly where he does live? If it's where I think, no, there's no water...there's very little water in this town anywhere.

I think if the scenario about one of them being stalked by him is true, the question of why the other one went along could be explained if the stalked one needed a tougher woman than herself, or just strength in numbers, might be the explanation for that. Since they didn't take their purses, maybe they were just going to have a little "chat" about the situation. And I think definitely they were not aware of his propensity for this kind of violence. Guys holding down jobs and appearing like a normal co-worker for years can also "crack" and go off regarding an obsession or something, and it doesn't mean anything about his perceived character, or even his past activities. This kind of thing, especially if motivated by a personal relationship, even an imagined one as in the case of a stalker, can happen as a one time thing.

Does anyone know anything about the personal life of the "person of interest"? And what does it take to become a suspect, and not just a "person of interest"?
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They practically have to feel they can convict you before they will call you a suspect anymore. Has to do with questioning as far as I can tell, although I don't think there's any practical difference in the lack of cooperation that will be encountered before or after being named a "suspect".

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the difference is evidence, that when you are a person of interest your advised not to leave town, or country without advising the police, and police may or may not gain search warrants, but there is not enough evidence for an inditement.

If a person is undersuspicion there is usually some high degree of evidence, or witnesses to the crime, and there is no problem to tear a persons life apart and act using of the tools of the law, where normally such tools as search warrants would be off bounds. Sometimes a person of interest, and most times is the prime suspect, however police cannot use this term unless there is some evidence, enough to convince a judge that they should grant a search warrant, or grant the use of other legal tools.

This is how I perceive the difference, this may not be so, as often times law enforcement does not name suspects for various reasons, fear for witnesses, fear of flight, fear that evidence maybe destroyed fear to tip off the suspect thus restricting movements to avoid detection. There must also be the fear of being sued for runing someones reputation.

There must be any number of reasons to withold naming suspects, and even persons of interest in a murder, or act of violence, and usually the delay is evidence.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a little simpler than that, something about having the right not to answer questions after being named a suspect, as if the perp will be any more forthcoming when not officially named a "suspect".

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw on Law and Order last night a person of interest in an investigation told the crown district attorney lawyer said, not to leave town and that they had to pass in their passport. Although they had a prime suspect under their radar....just keeping their ducks in a row...to all possibilities
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