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Another missing woman/girl-Joanna Rogers, 16, of Lubbock, TX
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 1173
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nan I'm going in circles trying to find out areas, where these women worked and were last.

Southwestern Drive, is this the street that the Sandwich Shoppe is on where Joanna worked, can you give me the exact address?

I was sure I had looked this up before and not cannot find the information, also. I'm stuck by the resemblence that Palacio died in July 2003 has in common with Joanna, shoulder length straight hair. They are similar in building, and close to the same age.

I'm very curious about the location of the area near University Aveune. Is there any commonality related to these women geographically, where they lived where they worked?

Nan, I'm curious with so many young people being murdered/missing in that past five years that there is not more information available.

I do think there is a link between, Cynthia,and Joanna. For one things, these women more than likely would not have gone with older men, more than likely the only older individual who might attract them is someone who was quiet smooth, good looking, maybe a college student.
A charmer, or it is someone's father or uncle. I personally think that there is a Serial Killer on the loose. Whether the ladies of the night who were murdered are related to these other murders I don't know.

Had a horrible thought in that a serial killer who was looking for notority and was killing prostitues, might take a leap to killing women where there would be more media visibility. The information on Amanda Gschwent is sorrily lacking. In fact the media and the police do not seem to offer up too much.

Nan are there links on Joanna's website for information, I saw the email links?

Jennifer Wilkerson, again it looks like back to the boyfriend. What Joanna and Jennifer do have in common, that they abruptely left their house, leaving behind everything, with no sign of visible distrubance.

Would be interesting to know of the alibi of the boyfriend the morning she went missing, what did he do after Jennifer left? Yes I'd want to know what this guy does, even in the bath room. Something seems odd here, as someone had to see her entering where she lived? Again it goes back to what was she wearing for clothes? Are the clothes she had on the night before around? If she didn't need fresh clothes then why did she go home, and again we have only the boyfriend's word that Jennifer left his place.

Can you provide any information on Linda Trevino Carbajal, I could find nothing on line at all. Sorry for all the trouble Nan, just having difficulty find information.

thanks, kate
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Nan



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 207
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:34 pm    Post subject: checking in Reply with quote

HI Peripeteia,

No, sorry, I cannot give you an exact address. The streets you mention (Southwestern Drive, University Avenue) are not more than a mile or two away from each other. University runs north/south through the entire town. The smoke shop Jennifer worked at, I think I drove by it when I was there. You know, the whole town is only a few miles across, so no part of it is any great distance from any other. If memory serves, Jennifer's workplace would have been about a 5 to 10 minute drive from Joanna's house, depending on if they got all the traffic lights green or not.

I have no info on the other missing persons, other than what I find online. I have now heard that there are Joanna, the newest girl Jennifer, the three dead women who were linked to prostitution and/or drugs, and two middle-aged women found dead (don't know the circumstances) in Lubbock in the last few years. That's seven women in a town of 180,000. I have no idea if that's an anomalie, but I would tend to think it certainly was.

And that if it was a serial, he was going from people nobody cared much about (hookers, etc.) and getting bolder. But, then, it's possible none of these are related. Though the three would certainly seem to be.

Clothes, all I know is a set of Jo's old clothes is missing. At least, that's what I've understood. I really don't want to press the parents at this time. School has just started there, and she would have gone to her first day as a Senior in high school today. Her mom has been cleaning her room up, sorting through her school stuff, etc. It's a hard time.

I don't believe the Sheriff has anything new, or, at least there's nothing the parents have forwarded on to me as being new from them. The Rangers and the FBI are still involved in the case. I don't think the Rogers are being told much, and there may not be much to tell.

Yeah, my gut says "college kid" too. Or someone who seems like one. There is an update link on Jo's web page at the bottom, middle. I believe Jennifer's page has a link to updates as well. I looked there a few days ago, but there weren't any developments posted.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So both Joanna and Jennifer are still missing, and no trace from searches? That is just awful. I guess it will be another Gacy situation where bodies are found buried in a tunnel accessed within the murderer's house.

Obviously the person can get away with this because the girls could have "run away", so everyone must now sit and wait for the next girl to "run away".

That is tragic.

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nan:

I've been here thinking and writing for a couple of hours, and I think that it is necessary to determine the response of the dogs inside Joanna's house, would the dogs have barked if someone came to the window? Would the dogs not have barked at certain people> Her boy friend her brother?

Would the dogs have barked if Joanna went out? Would the dogs have barked if a car pulled up for Joanna?


If Joanna went out to meet someone she could not have intented on staying long, because she did not take her cell phone or money. Seems Joanna had gone to bed, so who and how did someone awake Joanna without arousing anyone,especially the dogs.

This is allot of women missing. Perhaps there is a connection, however, in Joanna's case the body is hidden, so this implies someone she knew, that he might be connected with her death, or his DNA is on file and it can be traced. I'm assuming that Joanna has been murdered.

The answers to the mystery lie in the house or in the neighbourhood where she worked. Wonder if the hounds might be able to find something they missed the first time. Been thinking that the women of the community might be able to add some information to this case, as there must be an atmosphere of some fear, I'd not been too keen to go to a bar or out with alone with 8 unsolve murders of women. Perhaps there are women who would be willing to come forward who have meet men who have assulted them or acted strangely. Just thinking out loud. Don't know if anything is helpful?
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Nan



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
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Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Joanna Reply with quote

Still no update of substance to give you. As always in these cases, rumors have run rampant around town. It is my understanding that the Sheriff's Office, et. al., have been checking each of them out as they are aware of them.

So, nothing. No trace. No real leads. She's been gone a very long time now. Someone in New Mexico made a really nice video collage of her. It's linked on the bringjohome.info updates web page. The music is so sad. This takes a very long time to load, but it's nicely done. If you have a good, fast ISP you might want to check it out.
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nan:

Jennifer Wilkerson is also missing July 13th thereabouts, she worked close by Joanna in a cigarette shoppe. Their places of work are in very close proximity, both places the Sandwich Shoppe and the Tobacco Shoppe where Jennifer worked deal with the public. Right away, this send signals, bells alarming.

In the case of Jennifer I'm not certain if her boyfriend has been ruled out as a suspect given that she was at his house, and her keys and purse and car were found at her place, having just left her boyfriends house where she spent the night. Like Joanna she seems to have vanished. In both cases one suspects that they knew their intruder/s, or at least the intruder knew them, or were able to come close without alarms being sounded, screams.

One wonders what kind of characters hung out at the Sandwich Shoppe who may have smoked cigarettes,or cigars. Might this be someone lurking about in the neighbourhood, of course Jennifer likely worked alone, but I do not know this for sure? Joanna worked with others. Perhaps there is some weirdo about in the neighbourhood. One would suspect that they would be under 30 or even 24-26 year old, otherwise, if the person was older lurking about he would be more noticeable.

There is a high population of university students in the area, and likely most of the transient population lives in this area as well. I owned a restaurant in the early 80's and I gave it up as the characters that strolled in and out of the place which was smack downtown was scary, and I closed at 7pm. There were many lurks about, and I was grabbed across the street in the church parking lot but I scared him off, but it was a close call for sure.

I don't know the size of Lubbock however, the city I lived in was slightly larger, well at least looking at the map.

If it was a person who is grabbing people out of their homes, it is odd that there have not been similar cases in the past. However, both women did seem to vanish in thin air.

One wonders how a person would have known that Jennifer was home, as she had spent the night at her boyfriends. This sound like it might be someone who lives close by, or else they were waiting for her when she arrived home?

Anyway, there are three amber alerts out for missing women in Texas, today, I saw the ticker tape on the lacipeterson sight, and checked it out, it seems that one young girl Jami has run off with a very dangerous looking 26 year old, and the two other girls were together walking down a road near on of the girls house, mesiquit county (mispelled). Hope these women are safe.
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking about the numer of women missing, I'd say rd you are exactly right that there is a serial killer on the loose in Texas, perhaps more than one or two, there are an alarming number of women missing in Texas that have vanished. I find it odd how in so many cases of missing women that a car was last seen in the area and how women just vanish. This says to me that someone likely more than one person or one person with a guy simply walked or drove up to this women and captured them, it is possible that they are involved in a sex slave trade but someone has many bodies either on their property or they are dumping these bodies in a mine, pit, deep lake or simply driving to the ocean and dumping these women. I'm certain that many of the missing young women in Texas are dead, and they are the work of a serial killer, who preys on young women between the ages of 15-25.

There seems that there are a number of serial killers on the loose, one in the Boston area, the midwest and in the South, Texas area. Whether these are individual or all the same one who knows, but there is a Gacy, Bundy, Bernardo, or a dude like the picton pig murderer. It is interesting that the number of murders in British Columbia against young women has dropped by 50 percent this yeat, and of course we know that the picton pig murder may be responsible for up to 50 deaths and he was captured last year. There is someone at work that would fit the profile of the picton murderer, or Gacy. The police need to up there search and likely they have already interviewed the murderer. The picton murderer in British columbia was interviewed serveral times, a woman was seen screaming outside with her clothes off and this was reported. Ya wonder what does it take to get sometime investigated. To me rights of privacy go out the window in such cases, I believe the police are way to leanient and bow to rights of privacy and protection of individual rights. Well the police need to step up being intrusive because are youth are vanishing by the thousands!!!

Something is very wrong with this picture, and governments need to spend more monies on law enforcement, train their workers better and work in collaboration and join forces on the internet and share information else, it will not be safe for anyone to go out. It will take a high profile person gone missing, like a senators, or congressman, or presidents daughter before there is a shake up in law enforcement. The RCNP blundered the Picton farm murders and there are hundreds of first nations women missing and presumed dead. It is time for a wake up call, and the anti has to be raised as far as punishment, such as castration or life in prison with no hope of parole, for those who abuse and murder innocents.
Perhaps even the death penalty. Something has to give......!!!!
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that a certain technique - I'm not sure whether it's called geographic profiling? - would be useful here. A Canadian detective developed it and police departments in different areas have got his help to track down serial predators. I'll see if I can find a link about this guy and his method.
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jane



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is Geographic Profiling?

Originally developed to help police locate serial killers, rapists and arsonists, geographic profiling can be applied to any circumstance where an unidentified person is known to have carried out activity at a series of geographic points.

The main tool in geographic profiling is a computer system called "Rigel." It is based on seven years of research in criminology, geography, forensic psychology, cognitive mapping, mathematical modeling, statistical analysis and investigative techniques by Detective Inspector Kim Rossmo, PhD, of the Vancouver Police Department. Rossmo developed the concept of Criminal Geographic Targeting (CGT). CGT is based on a complex algorithm that takes into account such mathematical principles as distance-decay functions, Manhattan distances (orthogonal distances measured along a street grid), and the relationship that exists between crime location sets and offender residence.

The research found that criminals—like all other humans—tend to follow patterns of movement around and through geographic areas. For example, people are more likely to carry out their routine activities close to home, work or school, or within a set distance from the commuting routes between these points (the principle of least effort). This activity space is related in predictable ways to where we live. As humans travel among their home, workplace and social activity sites, their activity space describes an awareness space that forms part of a larger mental map—an ‘image of the city’ built upon experience and knowledge. Within a person’s activity space there is usually an anchor point or base, the single most important place in their spatial life. For the vast majority, this anchor point is their residence. The Rigel system quickly carries out up to 1,000,000 mathematical calculations to produce the end result. Now applied in over 100 criminal cases, it has proved to be highly accurate in both urban and rural settings across North America and Europe.

In virtually any circumstance where an individual did something at a series of points that can be plotted on a map, geographic profiling can pinpoint the area of his/her residence. Any investigation seeking to locate an unknown person who is linked to a series of events - be it theft, fraud, arson, rape, murder or any criminal activity involving a series of locations - can benefit from the process. While there is no minimum number of sites necessary, it is generally preferred that there be at least five. Simply put, the more sites, the more precise the profile. This can be a series of five crimes or a single case involving five different sites. Any such series of locations allows the system to interpret the offender's "mental map" and calculate the most probable area of his anchor point - usually his residence.

Forensic Behavioural Analysis can assist in obtaining this service and represents ECRI, the Vancouver company that markets the Rigel system and training in it's use. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) and the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) in Canada, The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) in the USA, and the National Crime Faculty (NCF) in England have all adopted the program as a new tool in combating serial crime.

http://www.comnet.ca/~fbamackay/geo.htm
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an article about Kim Rossmo, developer of the geographic profiling technique, blasting police over missing women.

fair use

Ex-cop attacks police over missing women

The Daily News (Nanaimo)
Tuesday, June 26, 2001


KIM ROSSMO

VANCOUVER (CP) -- A task force should have been formed to investigate whether a serial killer was preying on women in the gritty downtown eastside, a former geographic profiler with the Vancouver police department suggested Monday.

If we believe, with any degree of probability, that we have a predator responsible for 20 to 30 deaths in a short period of time, do you think our response was adequate?'' Kim Rossmo asked during a civil trial.

Rossmo, 46, is suing the Vancouver police board and deputy chief John Unger for wrongful dismissal.

The trial has heard allegations that an ``old boys network'' controlled the upper ranks of the police force and refused to accept Rossmo's controversial promotion in 1995.

At the time, Rossmo had become Canada's first police officer to graduate with a doctorate degree.

He earned a PhD in criminology at SFU, where he developed geographic profiling, a computerized crime tool aimed at detecting serial rape, arson and murder.

Rossmo had received an offer from the RCMP to become an inspector and set up a geographic profiling unit.

Then-city chief Ray Canuel promoted Rossmo to detective-inspector from constable and allowed him to set up a geographic profiling unit, which won the department international acclaim and awards.

Rossmo said Monday that 10 senior officers resented his promotion and acted negatively toward him during his five years as an inspector.

One of those was Insp. Fred Biddlecombe, who was in charge of the major crime section, he said.

Rossmo said Biddlecombe threw a minor temper tantrum when he suggested in 1998 that police should assess the extent of the problem of women disappearing from the streets of the downtown eastside.

Forty have vanished since 1971, including 16 between 1995 and 1998.

Rossmo suggested the public should be told about the possibility of a serial killer, but Biddlecombe instead denied publicly that a serial killer existed.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm posting a link to this article, rather than posting the article, because there are good images in it of what Rossmo's software processing of data yields - a map coloured red where the predator likely lives. Have a look!

http://www.exn.ca/Stories/1997/01/16/08.asp
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jane



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man - I just finished reading the second-last article - Rossmo was dismissed from the Vancouver force! This kind of beaurocratic politics and nonsense is exactly the kind of thing that renders policework less effective than it might otherwise be.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's like in Jaws, denying the shark is out there and shooting the messenger instead.

The DC Sniper task force used geographic profiling, but they publicized it and the snipers reacted to it. In their case they were vagrants and geographic profiling doesn't work when you're on the move. You leave a trail of dead bodies that are mapped but that is not geographic profiling, that's mapping the trail of destruction.

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jane very interesting information, however, there are many more women missing in the last 10 years or so in this area, I heard that there are 51. Also, there were reports of a naked woman running away from the Picton Pig Farm and the police did nothing about this.?

There should be a public enquiry into this matter, and it sounds that some kind of a turff war cost many many women their lives and this should be investigated and made public, and the dead wood in the department should be given the boot. Like so blood hell that someone has a temper tantrum at you because they disagree, why did the manager not investigate this matter, gee wheeze, I hate to rain on anyone's parade but any investigator should have gone over the heads of the incompetent officers. I think the RCMP really screwed up the murders and missing women in vancouver, and this should be handled in a public enquiry so that changes in proceedures of investigation are followed....

Thanks for the information.....kate
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Nan



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
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Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:04 pm    Post subject: Joanna Rogers Update Reply with quote

Still no word on Joanna Rogers. Not a peep.
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