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Another missing woman/girl-Joanna Rogers, 16, of Lubbock, TX
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 1176
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:42 pm    Post subject: Need to Profile a Possible killer in the Lubbock area!!! Reply with quote

Thoughts regarding the murders and disappearances in Lubbock...




What the criteria is for stating a serial murder is on the loose......this would be anyone's guess? The Police should stand up and take note, that if a serial killer is not on the loose in Lubbock, then there is one pile of murderous people living in the area running around free! If it isn't one murderous person but many then the Residents of the Lubbock area have a serious problem. That being said, it seems apparent that there are a number of serial killers in Texas as there are literally hundreds of missing and murdered women.

It appears that the State of Texas is ill prepared to deal with the present rate of missing people in Texas, now is this because there are too few resources or are the police not up to snuff in detective work.....or is it a bit of both, who knows? Police know that the DNA recovered from the two murdered young street sex workers are a match, these murders were sometime apart timewise. Jo's and Jennifer's disappearances were relatively close together. All I believe were in the summer months? Will have to verify the dates!

Given the age of these women the operative thing to know is where they hung out to do their sex selling. Where would the perp have picked up these women, surely these women were seen selling themselves, elsewise would the police know that these women were in the sex trade. Surely the police know this. In the case of the Picton Farm Murderer in Vancouver, sex workers in the area had reported Picton on a number of occassions. This was very early on in the investigation, and Picton was interviewed, but somehow he got away to murder dozens more women.

In the case of the two women found by the roadside, the same MO was used of dumping the body by the road, no attempt is made to hide the body. Also these were not very far outside Lubbock......So does the person live in Lubbock or did he dumped the bodies on the way home? A cowboy, farmer would likely take more care in hiding a body. A trucker traveling salesman would dump a body on the side of the road.

Does Jo or Jennifer live close to where the bodies were found, I believe Jennifer lives right in town.

In the case of Jo and Jennifer there are no bodies. So are these cases related to the young women found by the road to Jo and Jennifer?

There is enough data to geographically profile the person/s involed in women being hurt and sexually assaulted and murdered in the Lubbock area to pinpoint a number of locations. Determining where the killer lives, requires placing a pin on all assaults/gone missing and murdered women within a 50-100 radius, once done the killer's area of residence can be speculated with some acuracy. This is a place to begin.

The police need to chat it up with the employees in the area in the service shops....one would think that the perp would drink, would occassionally go to a bar, unless he is an abstainer? Most women gone missing in the area do not have seemed to frequent bars, the two young dead women were underage.

The person likely smoked as Jennifer worked in a smoke shop. This person was conscious of their diet, as he was are not stalking out women at Mac Donald's. This person does not appear to drink. This person goes for good looking nice women. Therefore he should be good looking to have gotten the attention of these women, unless he was a high rolling type...lots of money...flashy car....there had to be some attraction...

Hard to say, are the police looking for a rich student, rich single young man, or is he a middle aged married ex-football type, I cannot begin to speculate what type of males the missing women were attracted to.......Is he the grocery, cigarette, delivery man, the car salesman which is close by. What other industry or business frequented the Sandwich Shoppe who Smoked.... This person has a loose schedule obviously, hard to be a serial killer when you're working 9-5...but it is possible. Is this person who is responsible for Jo's disappearance a Father/Uncle older brother to one of her friends or associates in Dance class?

In order to find out more about the type of perp might be involved the evidence of who the missing women knew ( testimonies and access to information that would be available to law enforcement would be indubitably helpful) The one thought that keeps sticking in my mind is that the killer went to the Sandwich Shoppe.....therefore there are other witnesses......the killer likely went to the Smoke shoppe, surely others saw this person.

Jennifer's killer, if not her boyfriend, someone she knew; then this person had to smoke be a delievery person or a salesman or frequent her shop to purchase...a newspaper.....a neighbour. It is possible that this is a friend or a friend of a friend but this seems unlikely.

Jo and Jennifer worked in very close proximity to one another I think this is very important avenue to follow in solving these murders.....
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gozgals



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd: first it was heartbreaking to read over the thread last night. In the case you mentioned- Jennifer, Who was the man in the truck? You alluded to the fact he was arrested? Did I miss something? Name, etc.

To both yours and Peri, I feel now that I'm alittle caught up, this smells of a serial killer for sure. I do have to take the time to study all of your work though Peri. It is very extensive. I agree to most of it. I have not read the most recent you just put on the board.

I am all for the serial killer. I did read in the past that many roam the TX highways, (as they do all highways!) Along with what has happenned and continues to happen in Mexico to young women, and the Men they found, it leads one to believe this is to be the case.

I would like to continue to explore this.

I will try to get in and read more both of you.

This just flooded me with tears.

Thank (P) for all the updates.

And Rd, have a great evening if I don't come back tonight.

____________________________________________________________

**God Bless my Countryman/friends/relatives lost on September 11.** Amen - Each year I light candles dated for those lost.
_____________________________________________________________

Hopefully, this can stay here.
( please do not destroy my post with blame, ty)
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


____________________________________________________________

**God Bless my Countryman/friends/relatives lost on September 11.** Amen - Each year I light candles dated for those lost.
_____________________________________________________________



I would hope it could stay there. :) I guess Sep. 11 is upon us again. What is similar about those 9/11 terrorists and these predators is that they move freely among us in our open society. their hatred lurking within. We have to monitor these guys once we know that hatred lurks. It's only a matter of time before they strike again.

The guy I was talking about is in another thread I think, "serial murderer in Texas" or something like that from kate. The perv got nailed trying to kidnap a girl on the street.

That thread will only add more sadness to this tragic story.

rd
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gozgals



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rd: I have read all of Kate's work. Thanks

And I picked this up from your post,

("serial murderer in Texas" )

I know it will of course bring more sad news, but I will try and find it. I do agree with you that it was/is an serial murderer. I really am upset too with this.

What bothers me is the area both woman worked in, plus the fact about Joanna having the internet. I know the parents checked it, and monitered her use...Plus LE took their sweet old time getting to it and checking it out, (rather disturbing and this pisses me off). This really can be a problem.

I see what could have happenned. Another theory..With teenagers, (and adults) some f.psycho hooked on that chat, (AOL) I guess it was, possibly pretending to be a young guy, she maybe makes a few conversations with him, - yes I know there are records, but still- and maybe he swings on by one night, she goes outside and wham the shithead takes her. I don't know. Just another guess.

Or maybe she knows him = he has stopped by work. Some clown who sells some story. She may go for a ride with him, innocent enough and we all know the ending of that. It could be anything. Stuff has happenned like that to adults.

I am just trying to run by different theories. It is no victims fault again.

And Benn. Nothing to add to your take on this. (TV GOLF< TV POKER!) There just seems to be much more that we can blame TV and society for than these two you mention. - Football? this is just a sidenote. I can't even form an answer. I find TV Golf a bore. I would rather ride in the cart or maybe watch the British open, I do so adore those DOGS ( Scotland) ********carrying the BAGS!!!
- I use to watch the M.Dophins, and poker on tv, what a sleeper but this is not even worth moral judgements, In my opinion. Just more , well I don't even have a word for it, but your opinions are your own as are everyones here. But ---

I will look for the thread rd, I would like to explore this further. I had my ceremony this morning. Right on time.

Goz.
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peripeteia



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It stuck me that there is a possibility that the boyfriend of Jennifer could be the perp, he could have murdered other women and he could have known Jo as well, as the cigarette shoppe is not too far from the Sandwich Shoppe. The police have ruled out the boyfriend.

I know the pyschic stuff does not count and at best it is iffy...iffy for even me to do on command, much less make sense of this, however, I will write to the police with my impressions, finally. Sometime ago, I sat down for several hours and thought about Jo, the only thing that keeps coming to mind is someone sitting at the front of the shoppe at a table by the window, he has long legs, he is known to everyone, he is staring at Jo. He sits with his back towards one wall, in the corner (front) So he would be looking to the front of the shoppe out of his left eye..He appears to be about 30.....or older..

The dude may look nothing like this thin and tall and of that age, but the only thing I'm certain of is that he frequented the sandwich shoppe. He was a regular, he was known to everyone.......this I'm sure of.....he stretches out his legs long and crosses them at the ankles...

Never can I see anyone's face, nor can I see people getting murdered, it is all to scary for me, so I meditate in my comfort zone and when things get scarcy, I'm out of that mode of thinking lick split......Guess it is a protective mechanism. However, I've often wondered what hypnotism might produce if someone was to ask the right questions. Someday I might try this......

I feel absolutely certain that the people working with Jo know who the killer is, they just don't know that they know!
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peripeteia



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben:

There is no accounting for the tastes and values of mankind. If the media was used extensively to find people, like Jo and Jennifer and the 100,000 other missing americans and those persons who commit crimes against one another there would be almost no crime. If the information was broadcasted repeatedly, more people would come forward would be better informed. However, we live in a society where at best the most we hear about murderers and other crimes is a namo second on TV the radio and more often that not there is no follow up, so the public is not informed systematically. For example, someone goes missing, we hear this, and then there is nothing, the police should make regular broadcasts of what crimes are unsolved. There should be a whole network dedicated to this. But no we are preoccupied with the lives of the rich and famous, how odd is this.....one would think that one would be more concerned about knowing if a pedophile lived next door.

Because crimes are not always on TV/media we get the false security that we live in a safe and peaceful society.....Wrong. We spend monies on wars on foreigner soil, but do little to campaign against crime in our own country. We spend billions of dollars on wars and space programmes, and so little on health and security within our own lands. Go figure.....!!?? Bloody hell if this makes anysense whatsoever, it is driving by Capitalism.......pure and simple!

And capitalism keeps producing criminals, in that poor people are not valued, many poor people suffer from ill health, cannot afford medicine, cannot keep their children in school, and many join the plague/plight of the poor, escape through drugs and a life of crime......

I'm not anti capitalism, but capitalism needs to give more money to the poor and large corporations need to pay more tax and in order for there to be equality in society, there must be some type of equal health services for all people! This is a basic and a given.....this itself leads to crime, for example if you son needed a heart transplant, surely robbing a bank seems like a good option....

One thing is for sure, we need to spend less on wars and space exploration and more on solving crimes, and this does not mean building better or bigger jails, this means providing law enforcement with more resources, better pay and increase staff.

Some of the laws need to be changed as well........criminals are protected by the laws in the US. We in Canada have very few rights as a citizen if we come under the scrutiny of Law enforcement. We are not thrown in jail and we do not feel by and large that our rights are violated. But there is not the protection of our privacy that Americans enjoy and skirt the law, especially for those who have money who lawyer up as they say.

I'm only pointing out the pitfalls of the system. We have plenty here in Canada as well, although who is who does not hold as much water, and if we do something wrong, we know that we have little opportunity of hidding things from the law, there is no fifth ammendment, or rights to privacy. If we feel our rights are violated we have the right to an enquiry of the police, judicial system, the government, whomever is at fault....


But hey guess by the US standards, I'm a social democrate, so my opinions have little value. I only know one thing that Life has gone to hell in a handbasket, and is there any turning back? I do not know!

The rate at which women and children are being sexually abused, sexually exploited, murdered, missing, is a problem that has spread across North America like some kind of virus. We must seek solutions to this problem immediately.....like what is it going to take, that the President's or Prime Minister's grandchild is taken......or something equally as horrible........!!!!!
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jane



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kate wrote ...someone goes missing, we hear this, and then there is nothing, the police should make regular broadcasts of what crimes are unsolved. There should be a whole network dedicated to this. But no we are preoccupied with the lives of the rich and famous...

Kate - your idea is really good. I was thinking that the police could use a Website for this, though, instead of the news.
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Nan



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Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: A woman's body found at Lubbock Landfill, in a suitcase Reply with quote

This just in from Lubbock

9/13/05 - updated 2:29 p.m.
Landfill Worker Finds Dead Body in Suitcase

Lubbock police are investigating a homicide at the city landfill on North I-27. A sanitation worker discovered the body of a white female at 10:17 a.m. this morning. Officials say the body had been enclosed in a suitcase. The identity has not been released.

Lt. Cody Scott with the Lubbock County Sheriff's office tells NewsChannel 11 that they do not believe the body is that of missing teenager Joanna Rogers or Jennifer Wilkerson.

Not Jo, and Not Jennifer. Looks like another woman.

Jo's mom is in NYC today, taping a segment for Maury Povich show about Joanna's disappearance. It should air in a couple of weeks. Fingers are crossed.
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Nan



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:08 pm    Post subject: Catching up, background Reply with quote

I think I can fill a few things in for you. Sorry to be so bad about not posting here often - been very busy, working my day job and moonlighting. My own daughter, who was "best friends" with Jo when they were in grade school, has just started college and the supplies bills have been staggering.

Ok, the guy in the pick up truck. There was a similar occurance in a nearby small town, same type of truck. They caught that guy. I'm not remembering if he was tied to the Lubbock pervert, but I think I remember hearing that he was not someone with a record. I have a vague recollection of them getting the Lubbock red pickup truck guy, as I have it mentally filed in my "does not apply to Jo" file and, so, have not paid it further attention.

The missing girl that they found in the lake. There was one up in Amarillo. Unsolved, as far as I know. That's the first large town north of Lubbock, on the Interstate 40. About two hours north, by car.

Another missing woman, found in a local Lubbock-region lake recently. Was an older woman (30s? 40s?). They pulled her out of the lake shortly after finding her car. Don't remember the cause of death - have it mentally filed under "does not apply" again, and I think she may have been a suicide. There has been no follow-up news coverage, so I think that is the case.

Jennifer lived a few miles from Jo's home, a bit south and east of town.

Here's a creepy twist. The authorities recently arrested a guy in Arizona, who had been living almost exactly between Jo and Jennifer's homes. He was a sex offender, but had failed to register. I've been unable to find out if he lived there when the girls disappeared or not, but it certainly got my attention. I think he was not there at the time, but had only moved in there this year. When I spoke to Jo's mom, she didn't know either, but was determined to find out. I'm sure she would have said something if she knew he'd been there back in May, 2004.

In my head I keep going back to the family dogs. They didn't bark. They should have been barking their heads off. Either they were drugged with a fast-acting drug (several dogs, at the same time, with no sound??) or it was someone the dogs knew who was out there.

Knowing how protective that pack of canines is (they are loud, and they go charging out as a pack through the doggy door at the least sound outside, to investigate), I'm thinking they would have barked at a stranger in the yard even if Jo had gone out there with them. The dad heard a sound at about 3:30am, but since the dogs didn't bark any alarm, he just went back to sleep.

So, somebody from the neighborhood? Someone who walked by often enough, and perhaps gave the dogs treats, so that the dogs didn't think him a threat? Someone acquainted with the family who had been there often enough that the dogs accepted him? Rather than a random stalker, I'm thinking it has to be someone the dogs know. But who? The sheriff can't haul all the neighbors in and grill them, and tear up their homes and land without probable cause. Look at that BTK guy - he was the president of his church and a boy scout leader. How does one know who's the crazed kidnapper type?

Wish I could tell you more. Perhaps soon we'll have something. Horrible as it is, maybe the suitcase girl at the Landfill will offer some kind of lead.

Ya'll take care and hug your kids while you can.
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rd



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What awful news to have to post, Nan. That is just terrible. So sorry to hear of yet more tragedy for Lubbock.

I haven't checked the threads yet but as I recall the guy in the truck trying to pick up a girl was an Hispanic in another city, maybe within two or three hours.

Certainly there was nothing solid to link him to the Lubbock disappearances based on that alone, but I was hoping that he would at least be investigated and seen if he had alibis for those disappearances. Never heard anything more, don't know if he was cleared or not.

Another missing woman in Lubbock, in a suitcase in a landfill? If there was any doubt a serial murderer is lurking in Lubbock that should dispel it.

I have a problem with someone successfully going through a window and the like and kidnapping Jo while she was asleep without disturbing the dogs. The alternative is for her to have willingly gone outside and down the street far enough away for the car not to alert the dogs, and if I recall they lived in quiet outskirts of town, so a car would have to be some distance away not to alert the dogs.

Yet the person would have to have spent some time gaining her trust to lure her outside in the middle of the night without her telling anyone of this friendship. That I also have a problem with.

I think mostly in terms of opportunity, but the odds of her going outside in the middle of the night and just being randomly abducted are also next to impossible.

The sexual predator who lives halfway between the two missing girls may have not been there until later, but who lived there before that? What or who brought him there?

rd
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jane



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote, The sexual predator who lives halfway between the two missing girls may have not been there until later, but who lived there before that? What or who brought him there?

E.g., could he have been visiting a friend or relative prior to moving there?
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peripeteia



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update Nan...

I had not heard that Jo's Father was awoken at 3:30 am before. Wonder if anyone in the area has a job that ends at 3:00 am, perhaps a bar! Someone Jo knew who worked in a bar or other establishment that closed around this time?

Are there such things as stund guns for animals, there must be?

The other thing that keeps nagging, as it does with you Nan is that there is this feeling that the perp was known to Jo and the dogs?! Perhaps what has been overlooked is a friend of Jo's brother could/might be involved? Or a Father of one of Jo's friends. The two girls who were friends with one another in Oregon who were murdered by a father of their friends who they met at a dance recital? I believe Jo was to dance in a recital
that same night......(the night of the morning that she went missing)!!!!!

If someone came to the house at 3:30, it is likely that Jo expected them, unless a stun gun or drugs were used on the dog. If that is so, Jo had to have made plans while at work to see this person for that time, or they made contact by cell phone, or computer. Has it been determined if Jo was on her computer when she came home.

Nan, there is a University in Lubbock, what day did college finish? I would expect that it was around the time Jo went missing, and likely the bar on the campus stays open the year round, what time would that bar have closed....Here the bars close at 3:00 am, the taverns at 11:30 and nightclubs at 3:00.

If the body in the suitcase was not Jo or Jennifer then there is another person to add to the long list of those women who are missing.....in this area.

Nan is there anyway to post a picture of the Sandwich shop where Jo worked?

Nan it is very odd if the woman's car was found by the lake and the woman drowned herself in Amarillo, as that would make two women who allegedly drowned themselves in a lake in a very short period of time in Amarillo, one being Kelly Wagner and the other women mention. I live on the Atlantic ocean and now the bay of Fundy and we have literally thousands of lakes, water is everywhere yet I've never heard of anyone going down to water by themselves and killing themselves by drowning....not once in my life have I heard this. Granted there is an expansion bridge like New York in Halifax, actually two bridges, and frequently people kill themselves by jumping off.

It must be heartbreaking for your daughter to be at school and knowing that her friend Jo is not able to attend University! I await for your reply to the questions buried in this post. I hope that all went well for Jo's Mother in NYC with her interview?! Hopefully the media attention will bring some evidence to fruition...regards, kate
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Nan



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject: it's not Jo or Jennifer, it's another woman Reply with quote

Hi, sorry, I don't remember closing time for the bars out there. It used to be 11 on weekdays and 2:00am on weekends, but that was a long time ago and it may have changed. Am really busy today at work, will try to reply longer when I get a lunch break. In the meantime....

Here's more on the body in the suitcase (as if they could consider it anything BUT a homicide???)

"Lubbock Police have released new details surrounding a woman found dead yesterday at a city landfill. Authorities have released the victim's identity. Police say a worker found the body of 29- year-old Summer Baldwin in a suitcase at the landfill in Abernathy on North FM 2528.

Authorities tell us the woman's body was likely brought to the site in one of 40 trucks that dumped there Tuesday morning. Assistant police Chief Thomas Esparza says they have ordered an autopsy for Wednesday morning. We are told they are treating this as a homicide investigation.

Police ask anyone with information about Summer to call Crime Line at 741-1000. Callers can remain anonymous. Police tell us they will continue their investigation and return to the land fill Wednesday morning. NewsChannel 11 will continue to follow this story and bring you the very latest. "



The link, with the woman's photo and a live news feed is
http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=3848127
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Nan



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: continued at lunch Reply with quote

Ok, I'll try this again.

Yes, there is a large university in Lubbock - Texas Tech. It is in session until, I think, the end of May each year. Their website is www.ttu.edu

Yes, something very, very disturbing is going on out there, one way or the other. If it's a serial, they have a big problem and are in over their heads.

If it's a bunch of non-relateds (except for the two dumped on the road who DNA confirms were related), then the city there has a serious problem with the kind of people they've got skulking around in it.

I still go back to the dogs. If one had been stun-gunned, the other would have raised holy hell. Dogs protecting their turf do not go quietly. It's not like they have no neighbors at all, they have one immediately to the east of them that might have heard a commotion in the yard. But they heard nothing, apparently. And the parents heard nothing. Those dogs knew whomever came in the yard, if someone came in.

Either that, or Jo left the house on her own. She'd been at school all day long and then worked a shift at the sandwich shop until midnight - and had to get up at 7 the next morning to go to school again. And had a dance recital set for that night. I can't imagine that she'd have had a lot of spare energy to plan to get up at 3 in the morning to go meet anyone. She only had a shot at 6 hours of sleep at best for the night, and she was very serious about her dancing. She would have wanted to sleep to be fresh for the performance. I would think it wasn't a planned meeting, if it was a meeting that lured her outside.

Will let you know if I hear anything - wish I could tell you more. And there's been nothing since the initial "suitcase" announcement, other than the poor girl's name and photo, on the internet.
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Nan



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: more on suitcase, Summer Baldwin Reply with quote

The latest, from a tv website. I can't deal with this anymore, so I'll be away for a while. If anything of importance comes up, I'll post it. Otherwise, I'll be back in a couple of days.


~~~~~~~~~~~

It happened Tuesday morning at a north Lubbock County landfill.

Authorities have identified the body as Summer Baldwin, 29.

Lubbock County Sheriff`s officials were initially called to the scene. But because the landfill is used by the city, Lubbock police took over the investigation.

"It just seemed kind of odd to me that it just stood out there. So I yanked open the zipper and I just seen a set of toes just curled up, and I seen a tattoo," says landfill worker Vence Uribe, who made the discovery this morning.

"I put the lid back down, I couldn`t believe it. I had to look again ... she was bare, had no clothes on. I couldn`t believe it."

Uribe is trained to find unusual items in the landfill about 10 miles north of the city limits.

Tuesday morning, about 40 trucks made drop-offs. But when a suitcase remained standing, Uribe walked over. After unzipping it, he called his supervisor.

Finding the body was all about timing. Sources at the landfill say the suitcase was partially open and a leg could be seen. It was also seen on a top layer of trash before one of the compactors could roll over it.

"She looked badly beaten," says Uribe. "She had bruises all around her neck, like somebody had hit her, in the back. Her face was badly deformed. Her eyes were practically sticking out of her skull."

Authorities are asking anyone having information regarding Baldwin to either call Crimeline at 741-1000 or Detective Chris Breunig of the Lubbock Police Department at 775-2413.
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Please remember Joanna, and all those who've gone missing. BringJoHome.info
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