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Murder on a Horse Trail - Discussion (1)
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:58 am    Post subject: Murder on a Horse Trail - Discussion (1) Reply with quote



Chandra's murder on a horse trail is a mystery, and an intriguing one. Much more intriguing than fiction. Murder on a Horse Trail is a book I've written about Chandra's disappearance and murder. We will delve into all the questions the book raises and hopefully raise a dialogue that refocuses on questions that need answered.

The book cover is the same background as the green map background on our homepage at www.justiceforchandra.com, with the same darker green lettering over the light green and brown image. Should look attractive in a store display.

At 25 chapters and 310 pages with a well documented bibliography, Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy covers Chandra's disappearance and murder thoroughly with some new reporting and insights from me but no new interviews with the principals or information from investigators.

This book doesn't solve Chandra's case, but it raises a lot of interesting questions that I hope will generate some new interviews and information from investigators, maybe for another writer to cover if we're lucky.

I'll post updates as I get them. Soon I hope we'll be discussing here the issues of Chandra's case raised in Murder on a Horse Trail. Anyone having any questions can email me at ralph@ee.net.


Book Description
Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy by Ralph Daugherty pulls together the reported facts of the disappearance of Chandra Levy with new analysis that raises many troubling questions yet to be answered. This is more than a media frenzy, it is a compelling murder mystery waiting to be unravelled.

Ralph Daugherty is a computer programmer who was drawn to the Chandra Levy case based on coverage of the critical clues to her disappearance found on Chandra's computer. He has posted over 7,000 comments as rd on Chandra boards on the Internet and has set up his own board dedicated to Chandra Levy, Laci Peterson, and missing women at www.justiceforchandra.com.

He has now pulled together the reported facts with his analysis and questions, honed by discussions with hundreds of other posters since Chandra's disappearance. This complex mystery is a compelling story, and Murder On A Horse Trail tries to do justice to that story.

Browse contents and first chapter
http://books.iuniverse.com/viewbooks.asp?isbn=0595664334&page=fm1

now available from the publisher, Barnes and Noble's iUniverse:
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-66433-4

Murder On A Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy
by Ralph Daugherty
Format: Hard Cover
Size : 6 x 9
Pages: 310
ISBN: 0-595-66433-4
Published: Apr-2004
Our price: $31.95

Format: Paperback
Size : 6 x 9
Pages: 310
ISBN: 0-595-31847-9
Our price: $21.95
Other Formats: Adobe eBook



and from www.amazon.com:

Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy
by Ralph Daugherty

List Price: $21.95
Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours
Edition: Paperback
Hardcover $31.95

Product Details

* Paperback: 312 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.69 x 9.00 x 6.00
* Publisher: iUniverse; (April 2004)
* ISBN: 0595318479
* In-Print Editions: Hardcover | All Editions



and from Barnes and Noble:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com:

Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy
Ralph Daugherty
Hardcover, April 2004
Usually ships within 2-3 days
Product Details:
ISBN: 0595664334
Format: Hardcover, 312pp
Pub. Date: April 2004 Publisher: iUniverse, Incorporated

Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy
Ralph Daugherty
Paperback, April 2004
Product Details:
ISBN: 0595318479
Format: Paperback, 312pp
Pub. Date: April 2004 Publisher: iUniverse, Incorporated



and from Booksamillion.com:
http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=2837279159060&isbn=0595664334

Murder on a Horse Trail
The Disappearance of Chandra Levy
(Hardcover)
by Ralph Daugherty
Retail Price: $31.95
Our Price: $31.95
Millionaire's Club Price: $28.76
Members Save $3.19 ! (10%)
ISBN: 0595664334 / Publisher: iUniverse / Date: Apr 2004 / Page Count: 312


Also able to be ordered from any bookstore.


I like this post from alt.true-crime. benn was posting about our site to publicize it and Kris took a look. fallout had also said he considered the home page with a map of Rock Creek Park where Chandra was found to be a work of art. Maybe not Picasso level though. :)

rd

From: Kris Baker
Subject: Re: The bestest Chandra Levy site in town.
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
Date: 2003-07-02 16:33:05 PST

"Benf5" wrote in message
> The bestest.
>
> www.justiceforchandra.com

Who designed that one? Picasso?

Kris
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd, think about what Picasso's work looked like! I never know how it's meant when someone says something's 'like a Picasso'!

No, I'm sure it was a compliment this time!
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and then benn added these salient points to alt.true-crime:

From: Benf5
Subject: The bestest Chandra Levy site in town.
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
Date: 2003-07-02 15:49:58 PST

Speaking of Chandra Levy, and no one was, but it is hard to get
Chandra messages to come to the top of the list right now, because the
investigation has turned into waiting for a tip, or break.

Of course a tip or break may come along, but why wait for fate, give
fate a push. There are Chandra Levy clues that have not been examined
very closely, at least from the public's view.

The key, for example. A leak I read recently in an old 2001 article
said that Condit told the police that Chandra did not have a key to
his apartment, that he waited to let her in.

That conflicts with the statements of the Levys and the Katzes,
Chandra's family. Linda Katz, or Zamsky, said that Chandra told her
that she had a key to Condit's apartment. There is a difference of
opinion here between the Katzes and Condit about the key.

The police evidently do not take that difference of opinion seriously.
This is not a question of whether there was an affair, the key brings
up the security of Condit's apartment. If a jogger mugger attacked
Chandra causing her death, and her keys were missing, then Condit
would have had cause for concern if someone had a key to his
apartment.

But if the police leak was true that Condit said Chandra did not have
a key, that would mean that he was not concerned about the security of
his apartment. Either Chandra did not have a key, or he knew what
happened to the key she had.

In a case like this we do not know what the police are doing, and we
just have to hope that they are doing something.

I believe the Katzes. Chandra had a key to Condit's apartment. The
police do not have to wait for breaks, they could be questioning other
Condit girlfriend acquaintances to see if any of them had a key to his
apartment when they were dating him.

Beside the key there is the problem of who the doctor was that
Congressman Gary Condit visited on May 1, 2001, the day that Chandra
Levy disappeared. Someone visits a doctor, the doctor should have a
name, and an address. Also WWhat was the purpose of the visit, and
when was it scheduled? Simple questions that do not require a "tip" or a
"break." Of course a tip or a break would not hurt anything.
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 630
Location: northern illinois

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>> Maybe not Picasso level though. :) <<<


i agree with jane on this one ...

i think the comment was meant as a compliment, too ... even if it wasn't, though, i'd say you've done a much better job than picasso ... you've produced a piece of art that is easily understandable and which has a genuinely practical purpose ... ol' pablo never once managed to achieve either one of those accomplishments.


nanci
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have any more details on Murder on a Horse Trail than what I've posted above, but will update here when I do.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had not seen my name on that message, rd, I may not have recognized it at all, but if the evidence is there, my name on it, I will have to confess.

There are some things that have been left in the background, and not discussed much, or maybe I have just not seen them mentioned. That is the dna evidence found in Condit's apartment. If a dna fingerprint bank ever comes into being, maybe there is such a thing right now on a small scale, some of that dna might be identifiable. It is strange that all of that dna was found in Condit's apartment and he did not have anything to say about it.

Can he blame that on the media, or the public, or the police? It looks like the buck stopped right there, in Condit's apartment. I remember from years ago Harry Truman saying that "The buck stops here," referring to the Oval office when he was President. Harry took care of some of that though by playing poker with the Whitehouse reporters. Are there any Presidents nowadays that play poker with the reporters?

Several men were in Condit's apartment, leaving dna there, what was the cause of that? Maybe this is not a nice subject, but murder is one of the most unpleasant subjects that I can think of, and if there is evidence of something that may have lead up to the murder then that should be discussed. Maybe this is not what I am supposed to be saying here, rd; but how can we learn how this murder came about if we don't look at everything.

It would certainly be nice to see the information that the police obtained during their investigation. Eleven weeks from the time of Chandra's disappearance for the police to get into Condit's apartment, and even then they did not have a search warrant, so they had to give a pair of pants back to Condit or Abbe Lowell, according to the newspapers. An immediate search of the apartment of the close intimate friend of Chandra might have revealed what was in the closet that Anne Marie Smith was told not to look into. I don't remember if the closet was supposed to be locked or not.

What else can we discuss that has not been discussed much, there might be a lot of things if we just had the same information that the police have. Do the police know the name of the doctor whom Condit is supposed to have visited on May 1, 2001? Does anyone know if there was a doctor?

That brings up the subject of Condit's staff. One of the staff members was supposed to have driven Condit to the doctor, might not the Condit staffs, in Modesto and in Washington not have more information that maybe they forgot to tell the police during the 2001 investigation?

Rd, you can edit any of this if you want to.

benn
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't know if I should be doing this or not, but I am going to try to anticipate a little of what the book is going to be about. Of course we know what it is about, but the title Murder On A Horsetrail suggests some spacifics about what happened.

Myself, I do not think that Rock Creek Park would be the best spot to murder anyone, unless the victim was in a vehicle of some kind. I don't want to carry this too far because I don't think the location of the murder is the most important aspect of the case. What is most important is Who and Why? Then of course How and, yes, Where. The only thing left out then is When.

The How the Where and the When are not too important, unless they contribute something in the way of evidence to prove Who. The Why is also important, Why did this happen at all? Why did Chandra disappear?

There may be two or more Whys in the possible solution, and those should be examined. Each Why will probably point to a certain person, or a certain possible group of persons. However your book comes out rd, I think it will help to point us, and others, in the right direction. There may be disagreements, but those disagreements will help to point to the legitimate solution.

How then to gather more evidence? This How is a different How from How was Chandra made to disappear. This How is the important How. How to find more evidence. How might include What is the murdeer doing now, or What are the murderers doing now.

What mistakes did the murderer/s make? This is where experience in solving crimes might come in handy. There are probably some mistakes in commiting a crime that are more important than other mistakes, or more common than other mistakes. The dna in Condit's apartment seems to be a mistake, but is it connected with this crime? Does the dna in Condit's apartment point to the culprit/s?

Anyone interested in this case can not just read this and agree, or disagree, with me, you have to do something more. That is what you have already done in writing your book, rd, you have done something more. It is this something more that whoever committed the crime can not ignore. Whoever did the crime can not know what we are going to do, in fact we ourselves do not know what we are going to do. One step at a time, but it is we who are making the steps.

cheers
benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good start from you, benn, as always. I recognized the statements in the posts as similar to yours. You have posted along those themes many times, and well said as usual.

As we discuss this book, I am not going to include a citation with every statement I make. I do provide those in the book and based on a number of factors may include all the citations in one version of the book, in others I may just include the bibliography except for direct quotes. In any event, if there is a question about where the information comes from, I wil be glad to provide the source.

A major obstacle, not surprising given the Washington, D.C. police investigated, is that there is literally not one shred of forensic evidence, no DNA, fibers, hairs, or objects that is not Chandra's. This includes results from searching the Rock Creek Park site where she was found, her apartment, Condit's apartment, Condit's red Ford, and Darrel's minivan.

The police have no evidence. One can argue whether they tried very hard to get any, but they have none at all. The only information there is about her murder is that the bottom of her leggings were tied into knots. There was not even a preponderance of her DNA found at the Rock Creek Park site to determine that she decomposed there. There is nothing.

I agree about the location where she was found being the most important information, and the book explores that information about Rock Creek Park.

There are many, many smaller questions than who murdered Chandra, and I think each one that can be answered provides a clearer picture to the answer of the ultimate question. People want to know what that answer is, but the answer is that other questions need answered first.

thanks,
rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see from your posts benn that I'll need to provide several citations for you because the DNA said to have been found in Condit's apartment raises so many questions in your mind, as it well should. The problem is that the source of your information about Condit's apartmernt is Jim Robinson. He was going to write a book, and I hope he does to explain his statements.

The Washington police specifically said they were not going to search for semen in Condit's apartment, only blood and other evidence of violence. A few months after the search they announced that no DNA or other forensic evidence had been found in their search of Condit's apartment.

Robinson said that police told him they had found a few samples of semen. What we must recall is that the police performed this search in front of Condit, his wife, and his lawyer Abbe Lowell. We must also realize that the apartment was very small. They were all there, and police were looking for blood. If it wasn't red, they weren't looking for it.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is posting here. If there are no Picassos here, maybe there is a house painter or two.

One question I would like to see answered in the book is....what was in the closet in Condit's apartment that Anne Marie Smith was not supposed to look in? I will stop here myself and maybe clean my paint brush.

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really good question. If you examine Jim Robinson and Anne Marie's statements closely, they never say that Anne Marie found something in a closet.

In fact she said she grew suspicious and snooped once but didn't find anything. Then Condit told her not to use the bedroom closet, and she was jet lagged and didn't think much about it. That was the last time she visited his apartment, in late March.

She and Robinson said several times that she found something she was not comfortable talking about and that she had told the police about. One time she was pressed and seemed to say it was the neckties she found sticking out from under the mattress, but it isn't clear whether she found something else somewhere.

So again, we really are at Jim Robinson again. I am hoping he writes his book and sheds light on his statements. According to him the police know things they haven't talked about or even leaked, but he also said he was writing a book about it. Maybe he will explain it then.

rd
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fallout



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 566
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RD!

I would have compared it more to Matisse. I'm not a big fan of Picasso.

Here's some new information that I haven't had a chance to post here yet.

Lora Williams has replaced Dwight Madison as the Supervisor at the Rock Creek Nature Center. I spoke with Madison last year and asked him about his recollection of May 1, 2001. He reminded me that the Nature Center was closed to the public that day and said that he was inside the Center buried in paperwork.

When I asked Madison if he knew whether or not the orange spike was still marking the recovery site he told me that he didn't know. At this point he had to go but referred me to the Park Ranger in charge Bill Davis. He also mentioned that at the time of our conversation, April 2, 2003, that the subject of Chandra Levy was still a "highly sensitive" topic.

I haven't had a chance to call Ms. Williams, the new supervisor, yet but will be going down there again in a few weeks and hope to chat with her.

Good luck with the book, RD!

James
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much, James, and I hope the book brings a lot of vistors to read insights like you have just posted.

I apologize for being totally ignorant of both Matisse and Picasso. I still have both my ears though, to the ground, listening for more insights. :)

rd
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 630
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wtg, james ...

i'd give my eye teeth to be a fly on the wall for that chat! i wonder if you might be able to meet with her personally, which would give you a chance to read her body language, as well as her comments. in either case, we'll certainly be looking forward to hearing your report of that conversation ... hope you have a grand time while you're there, too!

**********
lololol, rd ...

don't give it a second thought ... for my money, they're both a coupla nutcases, and so is van gogh, anyway. you just keep both your ears on your head and to the ground for thoughts on chandra and her fate and, fwiw, i'll be a lot more impressed with your art than i am with theirs.


nanci



nanci
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess we are all waiting for the book. In the meantime, and afterwards, I don't think we should slow down. Here is something that I just cooked up about Gary Condit.

Time allows some reassessment of past events. When Congressman Gary Condit's constituents finally became an informed electorate, having learned of many of the things that their Congressman had been doing but concealing from them, at their first opportunity they voted him out of office.

I am sure that there are many ways of expressing this same thought.

Shouldn't there be a law against politicians hiding information from the voters?

benn
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