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Car wash surveillance camera catches kidnapping on tape
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a notorious child killer, Clifford Olson, in prison in Canada for killing quite a few young children in the 70's. We don't have the death penalty. He has sent cruel, taunting letters to the families of his victims. Absolutely beyond comprehension that we allow this.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the judge said, nanci, we don't have a debtors prison. I've been jailed for not being able to pay a $25 no inspection ticket. Jailed for 30 days. Totally illegally, but the justice of the peace got paid from fines. He wanted his money. I had none.

So jailing unemployed people that can't make a $411 court payment will make you happy? Or is there something about secular whatever in there that I missed?

The jail sentence should have come earlier from 13 arrests, and didn't have anything to do with this judge. When you've been jailed for not having money to pay a fine, then you'll see things a little differently.

rd
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, rd, sounds like you could write a book about some of the things that have happened to you!
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Believe it or not, jane, it just keeps getting more interesting than I care for! :)

rd
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 630
Location: northern illinois

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>> Court records show him as a chronic drug abuser who has been arrested repeatedly for prescription drug fraud, cocaine use and heroin possession. <<<


ya know what would make me happy, rd??

investigating and, if appropriate, removing judges who can't look at a pattern like smith's and see that before a guy like that is left loose on the street, he needs to be thoroughly investigated with regard to both the source of the income he relies on to support his drug habits, and the distribution of the income he does have. and, yes, that does have something to do with the difference between a spiritual society, which readily recognizes and supports the distinction between right and wrong, and a secular society where right and wrong are considered to be nothing more than an individual's own opinions and a gut instinct for 'if it feels good, do it.'

it's also the mark of a secular society when a judge makes the latest in a long series of bad judicial decisions, then refuses to accept responsibility for his error, instead blaming the prosecutor who he claims did not provide the informatiion that smith was refusing to pay his fines, not just failing to pay them ... did this judge not realize that all he had to do was say 'check this out' before he made his ruling? if so, that alone is enough to have him removed from the bench ... when you've lost a loved one to a predator who should have been in jail, then you'll see things a little differently.


nanci
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you not see where he said check it out?

Personally, as I said before, with 13 arrests in 10 years, he should have been convicted and in jail and not out to not pay a $411 court fee, but it's prosecutors who probably talk as good a religion/secular thing as you do where you need to direct your wrath. Or perhaps a judge who wouldn't let them bring a case. Or perhaps your fellow taxpayers who don't want to pay to warehouse drug addicts.

But not this judge for an unpaid court fee.

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 1173
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jane about Olson, the Canadian government spent 125,000 dollars and maybe more to his wife so that she would give information. In my books if she had information, then she is an accessory to the crime after the fact. This makes me angry. Olson should be put to death, he had no mercy on the dozen or more children he killed, and if not that they should have labotomized him, and what the hell is he doing sending out mail, if you write crappy letters to people, then no mail.....and mail that is sent fingerprint it, and whoever is sending it no visitation. Be dammed with his rights, this makes me very very upset. The arm of the law is not only not long or swift enough but it bends to accomodate what is felt to be violation to human rights. I'd send them north of 60 plus if I had anything to do with it....

Well who in the hell knows what is right and what is wrong, but by damm how did he get off with an abduction charge when a passerby saved the day......also, if someone keeps offending due to drugs, dry the sucker out behind bars and there is no question about that this guy should have been hehind bars....going to jail for a fine is a little difficult in that many criminals find it difficult to get jobs. I spent the evening in Jail one for an unpaid parking ticket that I did not know I had as I had sold the car with the ticket in the glove compartment, and actually it was a two dollar ticket with a late fine......

I have no answers only anger and saddness, what she must have suffered and to think the moron ....has three children......!!!!!!
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I think the cocine and heroin and anything else this guy can get a hold of says it all. He only cares about himself. How anyone could murder a little girl is beyond comprehension. We have to warehouse these creeps. In the desert, in cages. Drop food in. Give them a treadmill.

Although they don't deserve to be treated as well as hamsters.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three strikes, and they are out......in California.

I went to answer nanci, and before I could get my message ready there are several more messages, but anyway three or four strikes and they are out!!

nanci

You say a lot of good things there. I am not too sure about the courts. Bush is against abortion, as I am, but he might bankrupt the nation at the same time. Also the money is being taken mostly away from the working people to support the entertainment industry, etc., and shouldn't we be paying our debts, and not our grandchildren.

The only thing we can do if we see something wrong is to complain out loud so that people hear about it. You and I may have different views on something, but if they are aired publicly that might help us to find better answers.

I don't know how California's three strikes law is coming along. I will have to research that. I was a little unhappy that sometimes the third offense would be a misdemeanor or something, but looking at the abduction of Carlie that may not be as horrible as it seems.

The three strike law might be one way to go, or at least to look at. That is not too complicated, and it gets the three strikers off of the streets.

As for the courts being responsible or irresponsible a janitor in Northern California was sent to a mental hospital maybe 20 years ago or more for murdering two college students, a boy and a girl, who supposedly were friends of his. Less than five years after the sentencing someone decided to look up this janitor in the mental hospital, but the janitor was no longer there.

A psychiatrist, or psychiatrists, had decided that the janitor was no longer a menace to society, or was no longer a mental case, and had set him free. The mental hospital did not inform the court that had sentenced him that they were setting him free or anything. You can bet that the janitor was never seen again, in that area.

Three strikes, or four strikes, and they are out. Play ball!!

benn ......:)
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just ran a quick check in Google under News, and this is one case I came up with about California's Three Strikes Law. I had forgotten some of the details on this law. I guess we voters put it on the ballot as an initiative, just like we voted Governor Davis out. I don't know how many states allow the voters to place their own proposed laws on the ballot.

>>>News
Testimony Continues in Child-Buy Trial

By CATHERINE HO AND PAUL THORNTON
Wednesday, February 4, 2004
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OAKLAND—Convicted child predator and Berkeley resident Kenneth Parnell stood his second day of trial yesterday for allegedly trying to purchase a 4-year-old boy for sexual purposes early last year.

Parnell, who is now 72 and uses a wheelchair, gained infamy after he was convicted in 1981 for kidnapping 7-year-old Steven Stayner about 30 years ago.

Parnell was arrested at his West Berkeley home Jan. 3, 2003, after he allegedly gave informant Diane Stevens $100 for a birth certificate of a child she claimed she would deliver to him.

According to the testimony of Jerry Stevens, Diane Stevens’ husband, Parnell never mentioned taking in and caring for a disadvantaged boy during the transaction—the main argument attorney Deborah Levy framed in Parnell’s defense during her opening statements Monday.

Levy pointed out, however, that Jerry Stevens has been convicted of several felonies since 1978, including assault and burglary. He is currently on probation for drug possession.

But Stevens said that his prior convictions did undermine his credibility as a witness.

Attempting to tie Parnell’s past kidnapping convictions to the charges he currently faces, Alameda County Deputy District Attorney Tim Wellman called Kay Stayner, Steven Stayner’s mother, to the witness stand to recount her son’s abduction in 1972.

David Lin, from the Alameda County District Attorney’s Office, read Steven Stayner’s testimony from the 1981 trial to the jury, detailing the seven years he spent under Parnell’s watch.

Parnell changed Steven Stayner’s name to Dennis Parnell, made the child address him as his father and moved him between different motels and homes throughout California.

According to the testimony, Steven Stayner escaped and went to police in 1980 after Parnell kidnapped 5-year-old Timothy White, saying he did not want the boy to go through the same experience he did.

Parnell is charged with attempting to purchase of a person, attempted child theft and solicitation to commit a kidnapping.

If convicted of any of these charges, Parnell faces life in prison under California’s “three-strikes” law.

Paul Thornton is a staff writer and Catherine Ho is a contributing writer for The Daily Californian.


News | Sports | Opinion | Review | Sci-Tech

(c) 2004
Berkeley, California
dailycal@dailycal.org

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scary stuff, benn. It was three felonies, but usually the hullabaloo is when the third strike, life in prison, is stealing something over, I don't know, let's say $250, and they say that's a felony. They should just plea bargain a one year misdemeanor sentence for shoplifting and be done with it, but they may not have any choice because of the way the law was written.

In general, the few cases that resemble Les Miserables are those souls who are thieves but don't attack anybody but end up with three felonies, sometimes for example carrying a knife which is a felony for a felon, etc. It piles up quickly. The guy is a career criminal in any event. Might as well lock him up.

rd
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 630
Location: northern illinois

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>> Did you not see where he said check it out? <<<


a judge has the power to enter an order for further investigation if he believes he lacks the evidence necessary to make a ruling ... he didn't enter such an order, so he is one of the judges who are responsible for this child's death. did you not see where i referred to the whole pattern of violations on smith's record, and do you really think i'd hold any other judges smith appeared before less responsible than the one being specifically addressed in this report? i like your idea of warehousing criminals in the desert, and i also agree with bill o'reilly that the alaskan tundra would work well to house violent repeaters, who can spend the rest of their lives breaking rocks, then cleaning up the pieces of rock so they can break more rocks. in either case, the key is to put these people away and keep them there ... until we do that, the thugs on the streets don't have enough fear of punishment to even slow them down, much less stop them.


nanci
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a link to an article about how children can protect themselves from abductors:

http://www.rense.com/general48/sdw.htm
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jane for that link, very useful information. Talking to three twelve thirteen year olds who came for condoms,something told
me to tell them about date rape drugs, and asked them if they saw
the kidnapping or heard of it of the 11 year old re: (this is at the
Adolescent Sexual Health and Support Centre) and none of them
heard this, so I started talking about what they would do, and yadda yadda.

The link was very helpful to these beautiful young women who are looking for trouble, makes very good sense to teach our children.
these young women would be bait for a much older men....Not that
they would be willing...they are at risk...by the nature they are young and beautiful



I think this should be discussed in schools, this should be taught.
What made such an impact on me by what you said, is that laying
down especially in a public place, would completely disarm a predator
in that the effort it requires to drag, pull or get the person up right if
they are resisting to stand on their feet is almost an impossible task.

What a laugh, I was once held hostage to my son who was about
60 lbs maybe a bit more as he is a hugh man at 16yrs old. We
were in Alexis Neon Plaza (the office tower that almost burnt down..
Atwater St. Montreal, at the Theatre.....It took me about 30 minutes using all my MIGHT to literally drag him out of the mall when he was having an emotional attack, he laid down....what a time...I was about
125 lbs and in very good shape, and I could barely budge him!!!!!
What had happened he wanted to watch Ninja Turtles one more time
and I said NO!!!!


Benn you are right about the three strike rule, it makes excellent
sense, it is difficult to understand a tad that the third offense can
seem so minor, but it would be interesting to know if it is working in California. The Scott Peterson case, the boys who stole the jewels in house accross the street from Laci, well those boys looked like
hardened criminals, one had his throat slit at some point very
seriously by the impression that his photo gives...and it seems that
they must of made a deal with the DA as I'm sure they had three
strikes or more against them, unless they rolled into the State the night before....Like
you said Benn make it four or five.....Play Ball!

There is a case in point of a woman today in the paper in Dartmouth/Halifax area who was a personal care worker who beat an
81 year old invalid to death with a metal bar, 14 times in head and face, she got one month in a psychiatric hospital, because THE DOCTOR felt that her dissociative disorder with intermittent rage could be
understood by what was happening in her life, and that she was release as she was not a danger

This usually happens when she is under criticism,,,,,ya so what happens when you say something that the.....nut bag don't like, for example the way she spoke to you or SOMETHING...and that this woman sould get therapy!!!! NO BLODDY KIDDING>>>


Somehow, I feel like I'm going crazy....I can't understand anything and at every turn there is EVIL... My secretary was telling me of a man in German, or where ever in Europe, he put an ad on the internet that he was looking for someone to kill and eat,....there is a gastly story that follows ....that there was a taker and the police were having difficulty
to decided wherther to charge the guy with murdering the taker as the victim answered the ad knowing that he would die.......what is wrong
with THIS PICTURE TOO!!
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A vision sent me on the path of seeking justice for Chandra, nothing I've seen in print to date has diminished the vividness but only served to reaffirm the validity of this vision.
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>>Somehow, I feel like I'm going crazy....I can't understand anything and at every turn there is EVIL.<<<

kate, try reading a little of the book of Proverbs in the Bible. King Solomon wrote most of the book of Proverbs about 3000 years ago, and the book is still the same as originally written and the things it says are still true.

Of course there are other things to read in the bible, but I won't try to suggest all of that. I have to read Proverbs more myself.

I guess three strikes is a state problem, each state decides what it wants to do. I don't know exactly how they do it in Canada.

The bible is a road map to use as a guide to judge good and evil. An evolutionist who does not believe in God has no moral road map. Science does not define good and evil. I think it is much easier to have a moral road map.

benn
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