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The Chandra Levy Disappearance and Murder: Two Years Now (3)
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blondie



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The M's are metro stations.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks blondie. Wouldn't taking the metro to Porter Street be the way she would get to Klingle Mansion if she went there? Why would cops be looking for cabs that took her, and why would NE say she walked? It makes no sense to me. She took the metro everywhere.

James talked of a Van Ness station as the closest to the Nature Center. Any thoughts on where that is?

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd: I'm aware of Chandra's friend stating that she always wore a sweatshirt, however, was not this a friend from College. I think that the weather is very different in Washington than in Modesto/San Fran and in Sacramento. Modesto would not have the humidity that Washington has, at 80 degrees with humidity makes it a lot warmer. For example no matter what the weather Columbo always has a suit and a trenchcoat, and all the other people seem to have suits and coats on in the series. In that it must be very cool by times in California at least at certain times of the day. Coming from a cold climate where it is never warm, often cold and always humid, near the atlantic ocean. I still find that it would be very hot to wear a tee shirt, long sleeves and black pants on a day that it was 80 and it had to be humid as that is the way that it is at that time of year in Washington...

The climate is not significantly different here than in washington other than we happen to be further north. This my opinion, that I cannot imagine Chandra going off with those clothes on, something you wouldn't be caught dead in unless you were exercising....why would anyone if they were going sight seeing or meeting someone would go dressed like this....Gary Condit, Mr. Perfection would not have liked Chandra dressed like this in public....he bloody never has a hair out of place, nor his wife....There is just something that does not sit right with me regarding the clothes that she was wearing. It nags that she wore these clothes the night before at the gym and never got the opportunity to change them.

Can you quote the passage/article that you cyphered about the sunglasses.

You didn't mention about the skull fracture? Was there any forensic or autopsy report on the place and size of the fracture on her skull?

Regarding taking a Metro to the Mansion, the nearest way would be the subway at Quebec street.....if one was going to the Planetarium you would get off at the subway at Military Road, Nebraska Ave/33rd St. NW.

If Chandra was sightseeing, what would be the deal about seeing this mansion, I was struck by how shabby and how altered from the original it was, the doorway looks more modern than the one on the hundred year old House I live in, which is a museum. I just can't imagine that a cultured woman like Chandra would be going off to this place to see this....I can understand the planetarium observatory...

We know from testimony of her mother that Chandra had been visiting sites of interest while she wasn't working, she had been to the Holocoust
(mispelled) Museum....so Chandra was trying to take time to see the things that she had been too busy to do....but to go to that Mansion for the life of me, what would be the deal.....seems odd to me....unless of course she agreed to meet someone there, and that would be a meeting place...but we do not know what she did.

rd. I was reading an article that stated the walkman was some distance from her remains, it did not clarify where? One gets the impression from the glasses and the walkman being not in the same place, that Chandra put up a struggle or the perpetrator placed these articles specifically where they were found to create an illusion. i.e. if her body was dumped there....

If Chandra walked through the park, what was she doing near picnic grounds 17? Surely she would not have walked all this way by herself...well through the park. Do you know if they have tennis courts there? We have indicated that she might have gone for the horses? Just doesn't make sense.....

What do you think of the car that was stolen from near Chandra's building Did that vechicle go missing perhaps at 4:00 in the morning? Just curious about the coincidence. Wonder if the police checked this out. It took two months for the police to register the scream that came from the building at 4:14 a.m. Never heard any mention of the car missing....night be something to this?

PSA 307
5/1/2001
STOLEN AUTO - -
2100 Block NEWPORT PL NW
1988 MAZDA RX7

rd: do you recall the couple that was murdered the next street over from Chandra, do you know what date they were killed, I cannot find this on the internet? Just wondering if there might be a connection, re: wrong place wrong time....there is listed homicide April 27th on the crime report web site http://dcregistry.com/forums/neighborhoods/messages/122.html
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kate, I also always thought her outfit was kind of warm for 80 degree weather - the sweatshirt could always be tied around the waist (the sports bra can be an acceptable top), but the leggings would, I think, be hot to wear in that weather.

I was just thinking - this is another similarity in the Chandra and Laci cases. Both were supposed to be around the day after they were last seen by objective witnesses, yet eventually their remains were found with the clothing of the previous evening.
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benn



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kate, there are not many posters posting. I have just never examined these details that much. Somebody knows some of the details, because he/she was there. I guess we could rule out a female abducting Chandra.

The solution as I see it to a lot of these problems, or questions, is in getting Condit in a standoff. He has been pretty much driven by his circumstances since the day that Chandra disappeared, he can't run, he has to play the part of an innocent man, but no one has been able to corner him in a situation that he has not managed to escape from.

A civil trial might be his Waterloo, or finding out the truth about the Otis Thomas story. Condit has told everyone that he did not know Jennifer Thomas, so I imagine that he told the FBI the same thing, if he was asked the question by the FBI. All of his silence and coverup can not be to try to hide his numerous affairs, there is some bigger reason he is trying to hide from the truth.

Maybe we will have some additional details in the near future to help us out. Will rd censor me on this? I read, or saw, once a murder story that took place in England. One theme of the story was that "Time works for the King," which meant that time elapsing from the time of a murder works on behalf of the government. In the story the murder had happened a long time before the trial or arrest took place. I may research that with google. Maybe that would give us a clue.

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of interesting points, kate. Let me see what I can add.

I agree with your point about the difference humidity makes in D.C. versus California. The point is she wasn't exercising out on that horse trail, she was brought there by car. Wearing a sweatshirt helps confirm that. It doesn't show that it was night when she was wearing it, it shows that she wasn't hiking out there, though. The point is that she wore a sweatshirt not to keep warm but all the time. The clothese are what she always wore.

She most certainly didn't dress for public consumption, especially what someone may think Condit would demand of her if they were in public. There is only one trip to a Thai restaurant incognito that she ever told anyone about.

There is no one passage that says clearly that the sunglasses were found up near Western Ridge trail. There are several put together that indicate it. I will be quoting them soon.

The skull fracture was not determined to be from someone strilking her. The cause of death is undetermined. The FBI still hadn't obtained the autopsy two years later, if you can believe that. There were no precise dimensions of the skull fracture given, and they couldn't determine if damage was done by human attack or by animals later.

I agree with you, under no circumstance was Chandra sightseeing Klingle Mansion. That police would even talk that way just shows how clueless they are. That was in the beginning. They later came to understand that Chandra was looking up Rock Creek Park, not park headquarters.

Thanks for the info on the metro locations. I am not sure if Military Road station is walkable to Nature Center or not. The road would have had to change dramatically north of picnic area #17 to be walkable.

I did not see where the walkman was that far from her clothes. I am looking at that area now though and will post if I see something otherwise. The actual versus the illusion of being attacked there, sexually assaulted, robbed and killed is precisely the important question and part of the mystery.

Picnic area #17 is next to Wetsern Ridge horse trail which runs to Maryland before looping back and coming down the east side of Rock Creek Park as Valley Trail. If she wasn't brought there or told to go there, then the only alternative is that she was on a long hike through a forest and was attacked after passing by picnic area #17 which is an interstion with a gravel horse trail running down to Beach Drive. She actually was found just off a crossroads of sorts of horse trails and a road with a place to pull back into the woods and unload. You're supposed to unload horses, though, not bodies.

Tennis courts are on the east side of the park, up near Military Road, according to the map. The term tennis shoes is what we used to call shoes before shoe people screwed up the world. It doesn't mean she was playing tennis. It means they are sneakers, which is also what we called them.

I used to an '87 Mazda RX7. Best car I ever had. I didn't know one was stolen that day from the area. The details of where it was stolen and when would be critical. I don't recall any discussion on this. Was there?

I don;t know about a couple being murdered on a nearby street, but a housekeeper was kidnapped at midnight from a hotel on Connecticut not far from Condit's condo, murdered, and dumped in woods on Saturday May 5. They stole her car in the parking lot when they kidnapped her. Three men convicted. Eeriely similar to Chandra's murder four days earlier.

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

benn, whatever happens, it won't have anything to do with cornering Condit. The concept that he doesn't have to answer questions, will not answer questions, and will never answer questions seems to be an elusive concept. Condit will never supply information, period. The information must come from elsewhere.

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, jane, that is an eerie similarity in that both Chandra and Laci were found with what they were wearing the night before. In Chandra's case, as far as I can tell it's her standard wear though.

I think a point is lost here when you talk of the possibility of Chandra wearing a sports bra with the sweatshirt tied around her waist. Why would a woman wear a sweatshirt all the time in hot weather? The answer is also why she wouldn't be running around in a sports bra. A sweatshirt would camouflage the size of her breasts.

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it is said in numerous places that sometimes you have to take things and what it said at it's face value, and I've been trying to do this...Errol describes Chandra's clothes, he states that she comes to the gym every night, and wears a pink Tee Shirt or a white one. Yes a person said she wore this all the time, well that was at college, and she attended the gym there as well, so where did this person see her in the same clothes I have seen at least a dozen pictures of Chandra and oddly for something that she wears all the time I've never seen her with these clothes on....
She has on everything but....well Chandra now had a miticulous boyfriend, and I'm sure that Chandra changed after she got home from work. Ok what would Chandra wear on a day off, perhaps the same...and if you are exercising or running an errant, you might have the same clothes.

But I do not get the impression that Chandra might have worn this attire when she was with Gary....well if we are to believe that he is such a sex maniac. There would be nothing wrong with the Sports Bra....I guess I never considered running in it as an outer piece of clothing, as I did not think that one wore this type of thing in public, perhaps it is a brand name thing. Certainly what I know of a sports bra is one you wear for support under clothes and it is heavy duty to keep you from flooping around....a sports bra in this sentence is one that is clothing, that is bought to exercise in...nominclature///!! outside.

Which brings me to tennis sneakers,the american brand we all wore, TOPSIDERS, these we wear on boats and play tennis in, would never run or walk far in these as these are rather flat and lack support. They are great for sailing and they have always been in vogue in this neck of the woods. Growning up this is what I use for tennis sneakers... on clay courts

We don't really know what kind or bra or sneakers they really were do we? Not 100%. Oddly enough in the seventies, we wore tennis sneakers Navy and our sweatshirt tied around our waist with slacks tight or jeans tight....that was the garb. the reason for the sweatshirt around the waist in case you got cold, or whatever, or it was too hot to wear it.

Jane: judging from the size of chandra's chest, she would turn a few heads if she jogged by with Spandex pants and a sports bra on, not to mention that lack of support must have been an issue while running.
No offense in tended.

The other thing is to take one at one's word..Errol Thompson states in one interview that , "he" was the last person to see and talk to chandra!!! Well Errol I always wondered how come it is that Chandra has the same clothes on (almost?) as when you last saw her!

Three strikes and you are out!

Just a tad too coincidential for my liking...and I know that I've been on to it,,,

While searching for possibilities of a serial killer of what things that Chandra may have had in common with others, and began the cyper space wonder, and come upon Molly Bish's murder, and there had been mention of her in the past. But was not taken in at the time Bish's grave site, well I'm reading this and if one did not know the name you'd think that it was about Chandra's, these are on Boston Globe site, and I believe these are also in research below...

The similarity Jane like you say becomes uncanny at times, I for a while thought that maybe Peterson murdered Chandra, it is possible?! N'est pas.
Well the same thing about the grave site and molly, then I scroll down the page and there is the composite photo of the killer of Molly Bish. What was not know at the time that this information on Bish was discovered, is that Chandra had yet to be found. So there was no association to be made with Molly, re: similarity of grave site. Well the grave thing was creeping me out. And the picture looks alot like Errol.
The article where he used an alias is a very different read, one gets confused when reading it, as it appears that they are all friends and that they know one another well.

As mentioned the alias and the picture don't jive and the story don't give!

Three strikes and you are out.

He doesn't want his name release in two more articles FOX and Diane Sawyer...

How many strikes is this!!!!

Errol may have nothing to do with anything, but too I've been thinking what did the three interns in Washington that were murdered may have in common. Might there be some commonality other than the obvious, that they all relatively lived in the same neighbourhood, beautiful, intelligent, and three of four were from washington, and the three were from California. There is also the murder of Jennifer Zoch, which should not necessarily be excluded, although she was found in the underground parking...


There are more factors that are alike than they are different, incredibly so really as to their life styles, very intelligent women. They all would have visited libraries, they may have all used the same subway route. Went to the same grocery store. Went to the same GYM. Same hairdresser...drug store, coffee shop, starbucks..

Benn you are certainly correct, that one must not disregard that there may have been grounds that Condit might have wanted Chandra silenced, that is not to say murdered. Although it is possible. Anything goes here. The Ottis thing could possibly go to motive. I think that to eliminate Gary as a suspect one has to eliminate motive. Also very strange the wife coming to town. Now imagine he is having three conversations a day to the women he loves...WoW Gary is a piece of WORK. But as rd states Gary is not talking.

There are other possibilities, that Chandra had an accident..., she was abducted on the street, meet up with someone she knew, abducted in the garage, in the apartment building....

Chandra went by herself to the park

Chandra murder was self inflicted, a suicide where the intent was not to die by to draw attention and it didn't work....

Chandra agreed to meet someone in the park

So there is motive
Happenstance
Stalker who snached chandra
someone chandra knew slightly and agreed to meet, like a guy like Peterson

What is easy to imagine that a guy like Peterson would kill someone on a dime....maybe this is how he gets his kicks....

Although it seems hard to believe that Scott would know these women except that by geography and occupation that Scott might have known Gary.....how would those women know someone in common from California other than politics.....University community, or neighbourhood stuff.

Well I have no answers other than I think more and more that Gary may only have been involved in the coverup...but maybe he murdered Chandra....it was really hard to believe that Scott was guilty, and perhaps it is inconsciable (misspelled) that Scott murdered not so much his wife but his 8 month old son.

Nothing much explains Gary's character and lack there of, his actions and his non actions. Again I'm limited by the scope of my imagination to want to believe that Gary Condit killed Chandra levy in very cold blood. Why I don't know, when I think he did it, but something is telling me, listen to what the facts are saying. Not how we think someone should have behaved or what they should not have done. It seems that Gary does not take advise well. What he hides? This is anyone guess? And Benn if a motive was proven re: the Ottis thing then a DA might round up the grand jury...but it is too bad the grand jury could not go and look for motive....a paternity test seems simple...odd Gary doesn't do this, nor does he take a polygraph this makes it look bad, what is there to hide, perhaps the son of a .....is guilty. Why would anyone want to do that to themselves...to sabatoge one's dignity when it is already known that you are a low life adulter through and through......a liar, and on and on...so what compels Gary to Silence.

The autopsy, this is odd about the report....I think that everything about the fracture including where it was etc. was not reported..........odd again


Alot of Odd things!

Forgive me if it makes no sense, it is late...wish me luck tomorrow as "the journey" my path takes me to a committee provincally to lobby for youth health centres, wish me luck.
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read your last message, kate, but I won't be able to get back and respond for a while. It is early in the morning, but I got up even earlier, and fooling with the computer the time flies, so now instead of getting up I am going to take a nap.

You and rd are getting into a lot of the details now. If Gary had not acted so strangely I might be looking close at all other possibilities, but he is a public official, or was a public official, and can't even talk, or if he does talk he goes around in circles, and calls other people liars. I will have to start looking at the evidence much more closely---but not right now, I have to get some sleep. That is the advantage of being retired I can twist my hours all around.

I don't really think I am retired, it is an illusion. I saw a woman on the tv news yesterday and she is 99, 99. years old and still goes bowling twice a week. Her average is 195, or maybe that is her high score.

If I can still bowl at age 99 everything will be OK.

benn
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rd



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

benn, I like that illusion of retirement statement. Something for me to look forward to. :)

Kate, you took a statement from Errol out of context to make it appear to be a slip that shows he knows he was the last person talking to Chandra. That's not very nice. :) Why don't you look at what he actually said, and the context in which he said it.

Also, I never ran across the pink or white t-shirt statement. Is his description of her in a t-shirt? I will take a look. If so, I don't understand your point about wearing the same clothes as when she was at the gym.

Two men besides Sven were given lie detector tests and passed. I would expect that as the last person who saw Chandra, as determined by police, that he was one of the men given a lie detector test and passed. I would hope that the other one was the Newport manager. I don't know who else knew anything to be tested unless it was another person at the gym who saw Chandra.

Everyone wishes to remain anomynous when giving information about a highly public case. Once named, they are hounded and accused of murder. All of them, based on information they didn't have to make public to help us understand what happened.

rd
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benn



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>benn, I like that illusion of retirement statement. Something for me to look forward to. :)<<

rd, it is much better to be young than retired. Of course retiring young might be something else. :)

rd wrote>> Kate, you took a statement from Errol out of context to make it appear to be a slip that shows he knows he was the last person talking to Chandra. That's not very nice. :) Why don't you look at what he actually said, and the context in which he said it.<<

I caught that one, but I did not know if kate was correct or not.

kate wrote>>Benn you are certainly correct, that one must not disregard that there may have been grounds that Condit might have wanted Chandra silenced, that is not to say murdered. Although it is possible. Anything goes here. The Ottis thing could possibly go to motive. I think that to eliminate Gary as a suspect one has to eliminate motive. Also very strange the wife coming to town. Now imagine he is having three conversations a day to the women he loves...WoW Gary is a piece of WORK. But as rd states Gary is not talking.

There are other possibilities, that Chandra had an accident..., she was abducted on the street, meet up with someone she knew, abducted in the garage, in the apartment building...<<

"strange the wife coming to town." This is where questioning Condit would be nice, of course that is not possible. Most of the interviewers, Connie Chung, etc., got stuck on two or three questions. They could have asked Condit when the arrangements were made for Carolyn to go to Washington.

This strange coincidence of Carolyn being in town on May 1, thanks to Condit's attorney Cotchett (I wonder if the public woould ever have known if Cotchett had not told us) seems too unlikely to have happened by chance. Chandra could have been attacked by a stranger in the Park, but for the attack to take place when Carolyn was in town seems unlikely. Although I just thought of one scenario, that Chandra did not have enough to do with Carolyn in town, so she went jogging.....

The percentages would be much more in favor of Carolyn being in town, and there was some kind of a prearranged plan against Chandra, not necessarily with Carolyn as a part of the plan, I would say Carolyn was not part of the plan, unless Gary got her into the plan. With what resulted, if true, that would be premeditated murder.

Was Chandra pregnant? Most news reports seem to indicate that she was not pregnant, but if she was that would mean the the coverup people would have had to hide her body for a while. I don't think she was pregnant. I think the "big news" was something that Condit had told her, to get her out of her apartment on May 1, with only her keys in her pocket. If she went alone wouldn't she take some money and identification with her?

Condit said he did not know anything about any "good news." Was he telling the truth, or lying?

Also, why were the DC Police and the media so quick to want to discredit the no ID rule? The Levys said there was such a rule. The police want to coverup everything by calling everything heeresay, I mispelled that on purpose.

So there has actually never been a real investigation of this case. The police and the FBI did go thru some of the motions, but it is hard to determine what their motives were. When the police were in Condit's apartment and Abbee Lowell said they could not take a certain pair of pants with them, the police left the pants behind. That is their fault for not having a search warrant. Maybe the police were outsmarted by Abbe Lowell, he asked the police in so that they would not have a search warrant. If the FBI could not even interview Jennifer Thomas, what does that show us? I still think the DA in Stanislaus County could get interested in the case, but I don't know what would involve him.

rd and kate... young is better than retired :)

benn
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rd



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take the illusion of being young, benn. :) I think your point of the coincidence of Carolyn being in town when Chandra disappeared is an important one, and also that we wouldn't have known had Cotchett not said it. Condit dropped Cotchett as lawyer days later. He must have been super steamed. The police asked him for a timeline because of it.

We cannot overestimate the pressure Condit was under if Carolyn came into town because someone other than Condit answered his phone.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kate, I believe you asked about the location of the sunglasses and walkman. This is a good description:

Levy May Have Been Strangled, Official Says
By Sari Horwitz and Allan Lengel
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, July 14, 2002

Sources say the way that Levy's clothing and other evidence were scattered - with her broken sunglasses near the path and her Walkman farther down the hill - suggests the possibility of a struggle.



rd
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propria



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back when these details were breaking news, i speculated that the clothes found with chandra's remains ... sweatshirt/tee shirt, shorts and jogging bra ... are also consistent with sleepwear that is popular with young women. we have not ruled out the possibility that chandra left her apartment late at night, dropping her comforter just inside the door, and met gary outside the building where the dogs found her scent, but it disappeared. perhaps she thought they were meeting to return her key to his place, or to get tickets to go home, or even just for a little middle of the night delight ... in any case, it is possible that she was picked up in the van that is connected to darrell, with gary at the wheel and darrell in the back waiting to strangle her with a pair of tights she had left behind at gary's apartment. under this scenario, the activity on her computer the next day could have been carolyn setting it up to look like chandra was home at that time ... there were reports at the time of a woman being seen near her apartment that day, weren't there?


nanci
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