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The Chandra Levy Disappearance and Murder: Two Years Now (2)
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of good questions, benn and jane. benn, that's some good thinking. On the one hand, he could just be very embarrasssed and Jennifer has returned home with her son and they wish no one would bother them about this, but to this day the Levy's, including Susan's brother Paul, believe what he told them as they sat together after Chandra disappeared and requestioned him about the entire affair.

Mind you, that would be two doctors sitting right there and looking in his teary eyes as he answered questions from them about Jennifer and Condit. It's one thing for OC to console Susan in the backyard while he was tending roses and embellish a story. It's another thing altogether to answer detailed questions about the affair before this was public or told to the police and after Chandra had disappeared. Can you imagine the urgency, importance, and life threatening consequences of the situation as Paul Katz flew in and they sat down with OC Thomas? And listened as he answered their questions so convincingly that they all still believe him to this day? Could a child born during this affair have escaped the doctor's notice? I doubt it.

This was a pre-screening of OC and his story before they went to the FBI with it. Then the Washington Post interviewed OC six times. Six times. Don't you think the reporters were a little skeptical? Yet they followed up six times and then printed the story.

Then the FBI questioned OC for four days. What does one think the FBI was doing for four days, serving him coffee and discussing the weather? It has been suggested that OC was stonewalling the FBI as Condit did during his interrogations before the police and later Connie Chung, giving minimal non-answers, refusing to answer most questions, and performing word parsing exercises. The suggestion is that it took the FBI four days to break through OC's obsfucations and force a retraction. If only the FBI had interviewed Condit for four days in that manner!

No, OC answered questions that made believers of Chandra's father, mother, and uncle, suspended disbelief from hard core Washington Post reporters, not naive to the political implications of this, for six interviews, and kept the FBI intrigued for three days of questioning and a fourth after he "backed off" his story, according to the FBI.

Meanwhile, the daughter in question fled the state in fear of being questioned and the FBI said they couldn't find her. She has never been heard from again publically.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, jane, there's the possibility of that given the timing of all this. But there are several unknowns.

There's only six days from Sunday, April 15 till Friday when she had that "accidental" encounter with HR in the cafeteria and was told she was no longer eligible to work there, to clean out her desk and leave.

This was the last week of Easter recess for Congress. Chandra had been talking every day to Condit the previous week, Passover week, when her parents were in town visiting. They witnessed several "dreamy eyed" phone calls to her secret boyfriend. Had Condit gone back to California? If so, then she was talking to him every day during the recess and very likely could have asked him about Jennifer Thomas over the phone. We know he was talking to Anne Marie every day. It's probable he was talking to Chandra as well.

If Susan and OC had their talk in her backyard in the days after coming back from the visit to Chandra, mid-April, and they called Chandra about it, Chandra could have asked Condit about it immediately. In fact, you would think it would get most girlfriend's attention. But she told her mother she was a grown woman, to mind her own business. Still, one can't help but think she would hint around about the rumor to Condit without mentioning her mother. She couldn't have taken it seriously. She told her mom that Condit knew all about it, explained it all.

If they did talk while he was in California, then it's possible she confronted him about Jennifer Thomas a day or two before she was told her internship was over. If she waited to talk to him in person, it would be just after she was told her internship ended, assuming Condit flew in Monday night or Tuesday morning from California.

The odds of this confrontation occurring just at her six month anniversary with the BOP are too high. For that matter, the odds of a random conversation with HR on the six month anniversary are too high. There is something very strange about why the BOP said she was wonderful and they would have loved for her to stay on after she disappeared, but before she disappeared told her to clean out her desk and leave.

rd
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blondie



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 567

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it even remotely possible that Otis got the name of the Congressman wrong? Maybe it was really one of his cronies?
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rd



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blondie wrote:
Is it even remotely possible that Otis got the name of the Congressman wrong? Maybe it was really one of his cronies?


They lived just down Richard Way from Condit's house on Acorn Lane. Condit was more than OC's local congressman, he was a nearby Ceres neighbor. His twin daughters were living with OC and his wife and Jennifer was attending classes in nearby Turlock. Condit was Jennifer's neighbor as well.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd, this is something I thought up, but it may not be new at all.

You mentioned in one of your messages something about, Why would Condit want to make Chandra disappear if she had already exposed him? What would be the sense of that?

Then I think you said something like, Maybe he did not know he had been exposed.

I have thought up a different version of that. When Chandra confronted Condit he may not have known from whom Chandra got her informaion.

Condit might have thought that Chandra got her information from Jennifer Thomas.

I guess it does not make much difference anyway, just another theory.

What does bother me is that the media seems to completely overlook the fact that Chandra did confront Condit and then disappeared in a few days. I don't understand the media at all.

The media seems to think that they are better than the Levys (maybe just my opinion), because the media did come out with their reports that "It looks like the Levy attorney made up the no id rule." The Howler was one magazine carrying those stories.

What it does look like is that there was a lot of political influence taking place there somewhere.

Most of the Democratic Congress members did not want to give up supporting Condit. I guess that it did not make any difference what he did as long as he had the votes. When he started losing the votes the rats left the sinking ship.

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. I do not believe that Condit knew that Chandra's family knew anything about him and Chandra, much less about Jennifer Thomas. This is clearly demonstrated by his reaction when Linda Zamsky went public against the requests of the police and even the Levy's lawyer advice. She had had it with the DC police and their refusal to do anything due to lack of evidence of violence involving Condit. As Gainer said, "He had a lawyer and you know we can't do anything when they have a lawyer. They don't have to meet with us or answer any questions." Especially if they're a congressman, I guess.

When Zamsky went public, Condit all of a sudden found time to meet with the police. A Levy source said something about him scurrying to the police to change his story. He literally had had no idea that Zamsky gave the police details from the beginning about his affair with Chandra. He thought he would get away with implying that she was an infatuated slut, a little nuts who was probably trying to embarrass him by running away and committing suicide.

The Levy's hurt themselves by following the request of the police and not making public from the beginning the incriminating details that established Condit as an intimate and not making it clear what Chandra told them about the rules of secrecy. By becoming frustrated after months of DC police inaction, knowing that the police had flubbed and fouled all opportunity for getting any evidence such as the Newport security tapes until it was too late, their gradual release of information to pressure the police into investigating Condit looked like they were making the charges up or exaggerating them.

Instead of getting results, they got criticism. They trusted the DC police and FBI to investigate an important member of Congress, to look out for the welfare of common citizens instead of the Washington power structure, and their trust was misplaced until too late for the Levy's, too late for Chandra.

rd
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd said, "....[the Levy's] gradual release of information to pressure the police into investigating Condit looked like they were making it up. ..."

Yes, rd. That, combined with the fact that they were dealing with pieces of information that they understood fully only in retrospect.

rd, are you sure they only waited to spill the beans because of police and lawyer advice? I thought it was also because they thought Chandra might still be alive, and wanted to respect her privacy?
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rd



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe for a couple of weeks they thought Chandra might still be alive, but they held thier tongue for two months. Their lawyer was advising them not to talk as well, but Zamsky decided she had to go public even if the Levy's were upset. Based on the timing, I believe the headline that did it for her was "DC Police Give Up On Condit". That is just too much for any person who gave the DC police information on Condit to have to bear.

rd
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jane



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to my earlier question to rd, could Chandra have lost her job before she confronted Condit - I don't think it's possible, because her mother saw a link between the confrontation and Chandra losing her job.

....she told me she had talked to her friend and she said, "Everything's OK. He knows everything," and then a little bit later my daughter no longer has her job and a few days later she disappears. (Levy, Susan. Interview. Newsweek. 13 Aug. 2001)

I know we've gone over this before, but I don't believe Susan Levy would say this unless she knew the confrontation happened before Chandra lost her job.
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rd



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, I was just pointing out that Condit was out of town and that Chandra may not have discussed it with him until h got back the 24th, but depending on whether they were calling each other while he was in California. The phone records indicate her calls to him stopped mid-April.

I took that in conjunction with her talking to him several times over Passover week and his "relative" visitng in early April that he stayed in Washington the first week and the calls stopped when he went to California the second week. However, after discussing it with you and going over the quotes, I am inclined to think that mid-April is April 16 - 19 and Chandra was called by her mom and OC, she asked Condit about Jennifer, and then called her mom back during those four days, then lost her internship on Friday. I think that timing is consistent with all the statements except one statement from Susan that she talked to OC late March, early April. Every other statement says this all took place mid-April.

Good point, jane.

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minister: Daughter had affair with Condit
By JEFF JARDINE
Modesto Bee
Thursday, July 12, 2001

Thomas said he remembered that his daughter had asked him for advice about seven years ago, when she wanted to break off a bad relationship. He said he had been shocked when she told him the man she was seeing was Condit.

"Lord, have mercy, I told her she has to be around men her own age," Thomas told The Post.

He said he advised her to end the liaison immediately. She did so, and the two never spoke of it again, he said. "I didn't really think much about it since then, until Mrs. Levy asked me about him," Thomas told The Post.

At the Levy house that day, Thomas said he and Susan Levy talked about Condit, gingerly at first, but eventually confessed to each other that both their daughters had relationships with Condit.

"I told Mrs. Levy that with my daughter, it ended badly, that I think her daughter should end the relationship with him right away," Thomas told The Post.

He said he remembers that Levy then called Chandra in Washington. He said he heard Levy argue with her daughter. "Mrs. Levy talked to Chandra about it, but Chandra told her mother to mind her own business, that she was a grown woman who could deal with it," Thomas said.

In an interview with The Post, Levy confirmed that she had the conversation with Thomas and that she had argued with her daughter about the relationship with Condit. In mid-April, when Susan and Robert Levy were in the Washington area to celebrate their daughter's birthday, Chandra told her mother that she had talked to Condit about the affair described by Thomas and that the congressman had "explained it all" to her, Susan Levy said.

Thomas told The Post that his daughter told him that Condit had warned her after the breakup not to tell anyone about the relationship.

Levy said that after her daughter disappeared, she asked Thomas specific questions about the relationship between Condit and Thomas' daughter, which he provided. The Levys notified the FBI.

Thomas, in agreeing to go public this week, said he is revealing what he told the FBI because of media pressure and because of his desire to help find Levy.

"I'm just trying to do the right thing for the Levys, and I wanted to answer all the questions the FBI had," Thomas told The Post. "I don't want to drag my family into this. But I want to tell the truth about everything I know."



How much of this is altered due to Jennifer having a child during the two years in question and the child not being mentioned? For OC to have been shocked for Jennifer to tell him she was seeing Condit and wanted advice with the problems she was having with him, he would have to have known or thought someone else was the father of his grandchild, or his daughter told him it had to be a secret like Chandra told her mom.

Was the name of the father withheld from her parents as well as on the birth certificate?

Why is the child not mentioned by the Levy's, or perhaps the Washington Post? Was this to protect the child?

For OC to fabricate the story, he would essentially have chosen to substitute Condit for the father of his grandchild, whether he knew who that was or not. Let's assume he did for a moment. Isn't making up his daughter yelling at the tv "that's a lie" and the telephoned threat where he was told to "shut up and listen" and then given a warning he found "very intimidating" to be extremely imaginative, to say the least?

Let's assume Condit is the father. How could OC have thought nothing more of the bad relationship that Jennifer ended if Condit was the father of his grandchild?

Unless OC made everything up, isn't it unlikely that Condit is the father or at least Jennifer has told her parents someone else is the father, maybe someone who she says she didn't know very well and who is gone, for example?

Or is the above altered from the truth, and how much, and what is the truth?

Can anyone reconcile any of this to your satisfaction?

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CONDIT DENIES AFFAIR WITH TEEN
JEFF JARDINE, BEE STAFF WRITER
Modesto Bee, The (CA)
July 13, 2001

The neighbor, Betty Hoffman, said media who went to the apartment Wednesday night probably spoke with Janet and not Jennifer, who is believed to still be out of the area.



Did anybody ever find an entry for Janet Thomas in the school yearbook as found for Jennifer below?

Save Mart: 'Explicit' coverage goes too far
By JEFF JARDINE and MICHAEL G. MOONEY
BEE STAFF WRITERS
Tuesday, July 17, 2001

The Stanislaus County Library has received numerous requests from the media to take photographs of Levy from Davis High School yearbooks. So the library staff simply listed on the cover of each book where her photos could be found inside.

Likewise, there have been requests to take pictures of a photo of Jennifer Thomas, and there is a Jennifer Thomas in the 1993 Modesto High School yearbook.


I would assume Jennifer is not hiding in plain sight as make believe twin Janet because the little boy would have to be gone too, I would think.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry to say that I now am back to where I started. After reviewing the sources again, it looks to me like Susan and OC called Chandra in early April just before Susan and Bob went to see her for Passover and her birthday, and that Chandra told Susan when they were together that Condit had explained it all, perhaps as they visited the spa in Hershey, Pa. together, but Chandra never let on to her mother any more than that Condit was a mentor to her.

Susan and Bob then came back to California and Chandra lost her job a few days later. After Chandra lost her job, Susan called and asked Chandra if Condit was her secret boyfriend, and Chandra replied 'how did you know?"

OC describes talking to Susan mid-April instead of early April, and Paul Katz says that Chandra called Susan a week before she disappeared and said "it's ok, he knows all about it" instead of two weeks before, during the Passover visit, so there are slight differences of a week or so, but overall I think that what Susan says above makes sense.

That has Chandra telling her mother "mind your own business" when Susan calls her with OC, then tells her mother "he explained it all" about a week later when her mother and her visit a spa together, in conjunction with Chandra calling Condit the day before, then Chandra loses her job about a week later. Shortly after that Susan guesses that Condit is her boyfriend and Chandra says "how did you know?", and about a week later Chandra disappears.

Sorry for the vacillation as I went through different sources, but I think there's solid ground for that sequence.

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting complaint. Cotchett says the Washington Post doesn't attempt to support the claim that a relative [Zamsky] says that Chandra was linked romantically to Condit. Zamsky and the Washington Post should have printed the details right then and there and driven Condit out of his hole where everyone could see what a liar he was,and shown Condit's lawyer's and staff to be misinformed and assisting Condit in obstruction of justice. I hope they're proud of themselves when they look at themselves.

rd


Lawmaker Disputes Article on Missing Intern
Martin Weil Washington Post Staff Writer
The Washington Post
06-12-2001


In his letter, Cotchett described as "also troubling" the Thursday story's assertion, attributed to law enforcement sources, that Levy told a relative that she was romantically involved with Condit.

"Nowhere in the story does the Post make any attempt to support this statement -- a frightening violation of the ethics and standards of American journalism," Cotchett wrote. For the Thursday article, The Post interviewed a Levy relative who said, "Chandra has told me things that seem to contradict what the spokesmen for Congressman Condit have been saying."
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is interesting. The Washington Post never mentioned Jennifer Thomas' child in conjunction with Condit, in fact I was accused of making it all up on another board. And they quoted a statement where Jennifer Thomas said she never met Condit, but Condit has an interestingly different take on it.

rd

Interview with Congressman Gary Condit - Aug 24
Merced Sun-Star
August 24, 2001

Condit: ...In addition to that some of the mainstream press, I mean I opened up the Washington Post, there's the story of Otis Thomas' daughter implying that I had a relationship and had a child with her. I didn't know these people. We told the Post in advance we didn't know these people. We told the Modesto Bee we didn't know these people.
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