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Rock Creek Park

 
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maryland missing



Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 86
Location: near Frederick

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:53 am    Post subject: Rock Creek Park Reply with quote

I grew up in the area of Maryland where the sniper shootings occurred, and from the start I've never thought Condit was involved w/ this or anything less.

Rock Creek park was just somewhere you never went alone. Since I was a little kid, I've been reading stories of joggers attacked or murdered in the woods and even walking it w/ my friends I've encountered some real whackos. Given this is the Maryland side where I've walked, I've never once thought about walking it in DC, especially where it starts dipping into SE.

I've encountered several homeless or deranged persons on the Maryland path, so this is what I think happened to Chandra. I know some of the investigators on the case, as well.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 3225

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to get your input, mm.

But from what is known about how security-conscious Chandra was (e.g., she kept her door-chain locked while talking to apartment staff and retrieved his tool for him rather than allowing him in the apartment to get it himself)...

does it seem logical that she would have jogged alone in RCP and without her cellphone? That is something I can't believe.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great, mm. Any insight appreciated. Most of us don't think Chandra was hiking on a horse trail out in the middle of nowhere either. But that's where she was found. Conveniently across the road from picnic area 17, too.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maryland missing

There are three bits of information that I have been concentrating on in the Chandra Levy murder investigation. We don't have a lot of information except what has been printed in the newspapers, because the police and FBI have the rest of the information.

From watching old Dragnet tv episodes, which I have not done in a long time, it seems that no aspect of a case can be overlooked. In Dragnet they were doing the footwork, and getting the results.

To some of us, or maybe just me alone, it seems that the investigation has overlooked some of the footwork.

1. We have the unknown doctor whom Condit is supposed to have visited at 5PM on May 1. 2001. The police may well have all of the necessary information, but we don't know that. Condit's original timeline had one flaw in it, the reporter whom he met with at the Tryst restaurant was listed on the wrong day. We have no way of knowing if there is not also an error in reporting the doctor.

2. There are the keys that Chandra is supposed to have had to Condit's apartment. Paul Katz, her uncle, said that Chandra had keys to Condit's apartment. It is strange that no news reporter ever asked Condit if Chandra had keys to his apartment. Connie Chung did not ask Condit if Chandra had keys to his apartment. What happened to those keys when Chandra disappeared? Was Condit concerned about the security of his apartment if some park mugger possibly had the keys? If not, why not?

3. There is something that the newspapers, or someone, has been able to almost eliminate from current Chandra Levy investigation news stories, that is the Otis Thomas story about his daughter having an affair with Congressman Condit, about seven years before Chandra Levy disappeared.

The FBI said that Thomas lied, but we don't really know that. The FBI never talked to Thomas's daughter. None of Chandra's family seemed to think that Thomas had lied. Morever the investigation was not complete. No dna paternity test was made of Jennifer Thomas's son.
A paternity test will prove that Thomas was lying, or that he was not lying. Even Christianity Today was quick in 2001 to get rid of Thomas fast in a Weblog article. He was supposed to have caused problems for a lot of other ministers, but the Today story did not mention that Thomas had been threatened.

Here we have Washington law enforcement, the FBI I guess, investigating threats that took place in Stanislaus County. We don't know if the Stanislaus County law enforcement agencies were given any information about the threats against Otis Thomas and his daughter.

Chandra's family talked to Otis Thomas after the threats and said that he was afraid, and that his daughter was afraid. Threats seem to be something that follow Condit around. Several former Condit girlfriends (by their admission) suddenly appeared to talk to law enforcement authorities when Chandra's disappearance began to become well known, and when Anne Marie Smith also appeared with her story.

One other person intimidated by someone on Condit's staff, by her account anyway, was Jennifer Baker, Chandra's friend in the well known photo of Condit, Chandra, and Jennifer Baker. Jennifer told members of Chandra's family that she had not told all to the authorities because of intimidation. That is what some news stories have said. I did not say it.

I think there is plenty of smoke coming from this story, which is not being put out.

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The FBI said that Thomas lied"


Actually, and I think this is significant, the FBI only said that Thonas "backed off from his story" or something to that effect. OC Thomas also added further statements himself that he "got carried away" in trying to help Susan Levy, but personally I see those statements as also being what one would say if their daughter was scared for her life and had run off, which she did. You see it all the time portrayed in tv shows. It's called intimidation.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yes, I am sort of stating the Thomas story out of context because there seem to be versions that are slightly different from one another.

But some news sources have called Thomas a liar, or said that he lied. I will have to look at the Chriatianity Today version again. I think they stated it both ways, that he either lied, or he didn't lie.

There are some people on the link maryland missing that we might be able to contact, but I am reluctant to do so. Everyone wants to add a different dimension instead of just getting all of the information together.

That is what people do with the bible. If they don't like the wording, or the interpretation, they make up their own version. Well, some people do, not everyone.

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, despite the wording, the clear implication is that he had not been telling the truth. On the other hand, the wording would be consistent to me of someone going into a witness protection program. For example, the FBI didn't get upset after three days of questioning until he "backed off" his story nor publically express in any way whatsoever that he had misled them. They also went back to see him for a fourth day the following week. Strange that they wanted more details about a story he had "backed off" from.

rd
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 1173
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benn:

There was also an error in the reporting of the meeting with Cheney, the office of the VP originally stated that the meeting took place on the 30th.
They later announced a correction of the 1st of May.

I thought that was pretty odd that the VP's office would have made a mistake in the appointment date of Condit.

Until recently I did not realize that the Doctor -- Patient privledge extends to times of appointments as well was what was discussed in the appointment.

Kate

p.s. welcome maryland missing
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Until recently I did not realize that the Doctor -- Patient privledge extends to times of appointments as well was what was discussed in the appointment.


kate, that might work two ways. If I said that I went to see a Doctor at 3PM, how much of that could the police investigate? If Condit said he went to see the doctor at 5PM, and the doctor can't confirm it, then how do we know Condit told the truth?

benn
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fallout



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 566
Location: The Great NorthEast

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello to you MM!

Your thought about the murderer of Chandra Levy being a homeless person is interesting.

In the early 2002 I went to the Thompson Boat House area and encountered one of these homeless people. I asked him several questions and he volunteered some interesting information. (This is before Chandra's body was found up near Area 17 and the Nature Center).

I asked him if was 'homesteading' in the Park in May of 2001. Yes he was.

I asked him if he was aware of the missing person Chandra Levy. Yes he was. (Amazingly he told me he had never seen the police searching the area near the Boathouse-which would have been a logical area to which Chandra might have walked from her apartment if she wanted to go for a stroll)

I asked him if he had ever been questioned by anyone-police, fbi, reporters. No, he hadn't. No-one had ever asked him about this before.

I asked him about other homeless people in the park. He said it was full of them. He described one white male in his twenties or thirties who he was having a problem with. This white male lived in a lean-to under a roadway along the Creek close to the boat house. He "keeps to himself". But he is very (territorial).

While I was there I believe I saw this individual resting on a bench facing the Potomac near the Boathouse launch area. He had an aggressive prescence and was in his twenties. Stockily built. Short dark hair. His clothing was the only thing that made me think he was homeless but when I later met the talkative homeless fellow coming out of the wooded area his description matched this fellow. The stockily built guy had been there at least a year (pre-May 1, 2001).

Anyway, thanks MM for jogging my memory of this. I've always wanted to go back and talk to this homeless guy again.

My only thought about this possibility is that a homeless person would not normally be so far North in the Park as Area 17. The larger number of them would be down near the Boathouse in order to beg money from a larger population and be near stores and trash areas where they can forage.

That doesn't rule out the possibility of a homeless man being in the park on a direct line West of Dupont circle where Chandra Levy may have been most likely to enter the trails.

But there isn't a practical way for him to have moved the body up to Area 17 because the gated area of the National Zoo blocks any direct route through the Park if he were hiding and then dragging it North.

On the other hand, I do think that its possible that there is a homeless person in the Park who may have seen something on May 1, 2001 (or later) and it would be very interesting to talk to these people.

Thanks again,
James
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello fallout and mm. If there are so many homeless people in Rock Creek Park who might have murdered Chandra, how many other people are they murdering each week, or each month, or each year? Or did they just conspire to murder Chandra?

The police and FBI have dna evidence that they can look at, and they won't even look at it.

Who had the most motivation to want to make Chandra disappear, a homeless person who wanted to steal something, or someone who had to make Chandra disappear, or he was going to lose his job? Chandra was talking about him.

See you in the Park.

benn
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"If Congressman Condit or anyone else has anything to do with the disappearance of Chandra Levy we will find that out and they will have to pay for that through the criminal justice system. That is without question," Ramsey said. "It doesn't matter if they are a congressman, a senator, the president or a police chief." Aug. 7, 2001, Washington's WTOP radio.

I am beginning to think maybe Ramsey is the suspect. ...:)

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, a Freudian slip... :) This is exactly right. We are supposed to believe that Chandra's body lay undetected for months while decomposing but assuming she was suicidal or took complete leave of her senses and walked for miles up a horse trail into forest without her cell phone or purse, she was immediately tied up, raped, and murdered, yet no one was ever around there again.

That is the Guandique theory. I say Condit should explain where he was that afternoon before figuring out why someone was there to kill Chandra but no one was ever there again for months.

rd
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