www.justiceforchandra.com

[benn]

Here is an interesting article I found at Websleuths. It is printer friendly.

>>>DNA extractable from fingerprints

>>>By Charles Choi
UPI Science News
Published 7/31/2003 9:30 AM

NEW YORK, July 31 (UPI) -- Even if the only evidence forensic analysts can pull from a crime scene is a fingerprint smudged beyond recognition, a new technique developed by Canadian scientists soon could harvest enough DNA from the print to produce a genetic identity.

The novel system can extract DNA in only 15 minutes, even if a print has been stored for a year. Scientists expect the invention to help crime-fighters solve mysteries, and already are in talks with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. In addition, researchers predict the technology could be at least twice as cheap as existing DNA collection methods.

"If you wanted to use blood as a source of DNA, you have fear of contamination, people who don't want to give it, storage issues, and you have to sign a lot of paperwork to get it," research scientist Maria Viaznikova of the Ottawa University Heart Institute in Canada told United Press International. "We can now have DNA reliably and simply with our method."

Viaznikova said her team's method consistently yields 10 billionths of a gram of DNA, on average, from a single fingerprint. The findings were revealed at the American Society for Microbiology's nanotechnology conference in New York earlier this month. Although 10 "nanograms" might not sound like much, for DNA analysis, even 0.1 nanogram is enough, Viaznikova said. "Scientists try not to use less than 5 to 10 nanograms, so this is fine."

She said forensic scientists have known for about five years that fingerprints contain DNA. However, commonly used extraction techniques need several hours or even days of lab work. "We can do it in 15 minutes," she added.

The new extraction technique is under patent. When compared with existing methods, "it is at least as twice less expensive, maybe more," Viaznikova said.

The most immediate application such a technique could find is with forensics, said molecular biologist Margaret Wallace of John Jay College in New York and one-time DNA analyst for the city's chief medical examiner's office.

"It could save a lot of time, particularly given we have this huge backlog on DNA that needs to be analyzed," Wallace told UPI. "There are hundreds of thousands of samples that need to be looked at now."

Wallace still wants to know how well the process works on fingerprints gleaned from a variety of surfaces and kept in a variety of temperature and humidity conditions. "It's also possible that some people leave more DNA in their prints than others," she said.

Because the method is so simple and cheap, with far less overhead required than needle-based DNA sampling, experts say this could help make DNA gathering a commonplace activity -- thereby also raising privacy issues.

"DNA is unique, extremely revealing about you and your family members," privacy specialist Jay Stanley of the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington, D.C., told UPI. "This advance really highlights the need for laws to protect the privacy in the face of these kinds of technologies."

Stanley said because genetics experts have told him it inevitably will become easier to test DNA, "we need legal frameworks to figure out how to protect privacy in the face of this." For example, silicone chips from biophysicist Stephen Quake's lab at the California Institute of Technology, in Pasadena, could in the next 10 years sequence an entire person's genetic code cheaply and in a few days, he noted.

"I don't think anybody objects to samples from crime scenes. I think using DNA to catch murderers is a fine thing," Stanley said. "But we need to be cognizant of greater implications. We're going to be facing issues about how to keep DNA private from lawyers, governments, insurance companies, even nosy neighbors. It raises issues of employment discrimination, because employers have a natural incentive to hire healthy workers, and always have an incentive to discriminate against you by DNA, as long as health insurance is provided by the workplace."

He added: "Or think about schoolchildren checking out each other's genetic profiles, or having profiles posted on the Internet. The fact is, there are heavy incentives to collect this information."

Electronic Frontier Foundation staff technologist Dan Moniz said he thinks the technique could be helpful to nab crooks, but he wonders about further implications in law.

"People already have fingerprints taken of them. Will it just become part of the standard booking procedure? Will you be notified that they're taking DNA? Can you refuse to give fingerprints if you don't want DNA taken?" he asked.

Moniz told UPI there are four directions he would like to see the question of DNA collection from prints go. "First, I want to know who's using this technology. I want to be notified right up front, at the police department, hospital, HMO, anything. No surreptitious extraction," he said.

"I should have a right of refusal and I should receive no special treatment if I do refuse it," he continued. "Finally, I should have a clear statement of who has full control of it, to make sure it does not get (contracted) out."

Moniz said the problems of outsourcing the collection of genetic information is a violation of privacy that goes beyond the potential for discrimination. "Will you get marketed on a genetic level? To be somewhat facetious, is this a new piece of the puzzle of the already omni-present spam about penile enhancement?"

Although the method "can be used for DNA identification for sure," Viaznikova said -- people have stretches of inactive "junk DNA" whose patterns are as unique to them as their fingerprints -- she added that her group also has a more ambitious goal for their method: extracting enough undamaged DNA from fingerprints to study the active DNA that actually drive survival.

"Our interest is in the heart. If a patient goes to a doctor, in future perhaps the doctor can identify if a person has some kind of gene that can one day lead to heart failure," Viaznikova said. "We think we can use our technique for DNA profiling. It's not proved yet, but we're going to try and do it."

Copyright © 2001-2003 United Press International<<<

benn

[jane]

Wow - I am amazed they can get a sample from a measly little finger-print, even a year later. (Yet they couldn't get enough from Laci's toothbrush or hairbrush?)
_________________
"There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."
Christ

[benn]

This looks real interesting. I had not heard of it before, but evidently there have been some prior news statements. I am not sure I understand it, whether the new technique works with photographed fingerprints, or just fingerprints made by fingers.

There also seem to be some privacy rights involved. The lawyers will probably want to get their share of the money. Something like this might work for Jennifer Thomas's son, but that is where the privacy laws would begin to operate

benn

[rd]

I read this article a few days ago in the press. I was amazed that all that is needed is .1 billionths of a gram, but a fingerprint yields 100 times as much as they need. In fact, a smudged fingerprint that can't be used to id someone yields DNA that can still be used to id the source of the fingerprint.

jane's question reminds me of something I heard on tv in the past couple of weeks, very quickly, I didn't take notes. A forensic expert said that DNA results can be obtained in 24 hours, but a more thorough one takes three or four days. I do understand there was this one situation in Laci's case where allegedly it was to take weeks to develop the amount of material needed for specialized DNA testing, but that test was suuposedly to determine if the blood that turned out never to have been found was from Laci during her pregnancy rather than some time in the past before her pregnancy. That wasn't really DNA testing, that was blood analysis, or would have been had there been blood.

I read somewhere that only a hair with a follicle can tested for DNA. In any event, I don't recall an issue on obtaining Laci's DNA. They had it and were able to use it to identify Laci quickly after the body washed up, as I recall.

rd

[jane]

No, rd - when the remains were found they identified Laci's by comparing the DNA from the remains with her parents' DNA and determined that the probability she was their child was extremely high. They had no sample to compare (although they tried to get one from her hairbrush and toothbrush).
_________________
"There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."
Christ

[benn]

I think if you donate blood to a blood bank that the blood bank keeps samples in case they have to test the blood again for anything. These samples should provide a source of DNA if there is no other source; but I guess not everyone donates blood.

They won't take my blood anymore. I have some kind of anitbodies in my blood that they don't like.

I read somewhere that some prisoners have been released because of DNA tests. One prisoner was on death row with only a few days to go. Those were just regular DNA tests.

benn

[rd]

Yes, one guy had been on death row since 1982 and was innocent. I have been ranting for quite some time about prosecutors and police framing people. It's unbelievable how many people have been freed through DNA testing since courts have forced the prisoners to be tested against the state's wishes. You'd think the SOB's would want justice, but they don't. It too often exposes their evil, as we are seeing repeatedly now.

rd

[rd]

thanks, jane. I guess there was no hair on the brush that had been pulled out at the roots. Pretty scary when we see a story every so often about where all DNA can be obtained and no tissue for Laci could be found. In fact, I find it incredulous that there wasn't some medical sample somewhere at eight months pregnant.

rd

[jane]

At Laci's stage of pregnancy, unless there were specific reasons to do bloodwork, she would just bring a urine specimen to her appointment, which would be tested right away and discarded. Blood specimens from earlier in her pregnancy would not have been kept after tests were run on them. (Kate, does this look correct?)
_________________
"There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."
Christ

[peripeteia]

Hi Jane

Yes this sound correct, however, it is surprizing that Laci did not have some DNA testing on her blood earlier in her pregnancy, at 17-20 weeks here in Canada, blood is tested for several DNA markers for several genetic diseases, Phenoketurea (PKU) a genetic disease that if known at birth, certain foods can be avoided and thus mental deterioration can be avoided also Huntington's Chorea is tested, these are two that I know that are tested in this area as there are strong genetic links (blood sampling). It does seem surprizing that some testing wasn't done. Obviously there was not any testing done. That no hairs or nails were found in the house (hair with folicle) does seem a little odd, Laci must have kept a very clean house. Also, one would expect to find hairs with folicles in the vacumm cleaner. I'm certain that a through job was done by the police, but it seems like Laci's place may have been "sanitized" like Chandra's place.

Perhaps certain DNA testing by blood sampling is not done as there are not may cases of PKU or Huntington's Disease? As far as I'm aware, the mitocondria in the muscles were sampled from DNA from Laci. I don't know why this takes so long but it does. I'm not sure how exactly it works to get DNA from a dead tissue samples? In an amniocentisis; fluid is drawn and because there are only a few live cells, these must be grown, and this takes approximately 2-3 weeks before there are sufficient cells for testing. Sorry I can't be more specific. I'll have to look this up....

So happy to see us up and posting rd, you had me really worried, I'm in the process of moving and have no access to a computer except at work, so I was quite shocked to see the site down and couldn't email you as all the address are stored on my computer. Will be up and running next week. Thanks for all your hard work rd.....kate
_________________
A vision sent me on the path of seeking justice for Chandra, nothing I've seen in print to date has diminished the vividness but only served to reaffirm the validity of this vision.

[rd]

I was quite shocked when the old web host pulled the plug and went down the tubes. I'm still reassembling the site as I get a chance. That is interesting info about DNA testing during pregnancy. It's probably harder to find a source of DNA lying about the house than I thought, at least for people who spend more time cleaning their houses than I do... :)

rd

[benn]

rd and kate

That is what makes dna from fingerprints so interesting.

But of course that is not fully developed yet.

benn