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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 2136
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:51 pm    Post subject: The DC Website Reply with quote

I know that the attention now is on the Scott Peterson legal proceedings, but there is not much any of us can do about them, except try to keep informed. I did see something on tv this morning about Chandra's burial. I will have to check on that if no one else has.

What we can do for Chandra's murder investigation is we can try to incentivize whomever we can to do more investigating.

I have been boosting the idea that the Modesto police department should get involved in the Chandra Levy investigation. Yesterday I was looking at the District of Columbia website and somewhere there, where the Metropolitan Police Department was, I saw the Modesto police department phone number. So maybe Modesto is more involved than I have been thinking.

Here is the page I got when I put Chandra Levy into the DC website search engine.

http://dc.gov/jeevesone/match.asp?query=chandra
+levy&origin=1&source=querybox&x=19&y=9

I am going to check some of the links and see what I come up with. I see they have one link for questions.

That is what the police are supposed to be doing, checking out one thing at a time, the way the police used to do on Dragnet, but the DC police probably do not have the manpower.

cheers
benn
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a recent article it was mentioned that when the Stanislaus police wanted to assist in the Chandra investigation, the D.C. police were leery because of a possible bias since they were from Condit country. (I'm sceptical about that, though.)
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jane

The Washington police have many different ways of not doing anything.

I am getting wary, or weary, of the word suspect. I am not certain as to why it is being used anymore. I am going to try to get a legal description of the word suspect, but I don't think everyone using it is using it the same way.

benn
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 630
Location: northern illinois

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>> but the DC police probably do not have the manpower. <<<


you're a kind and generous person, benn ...

i'm not nearly so inclined to cut them that much slack ... manpower is an issue when searching for a missing person, but it doesn't take all that much manpower to put a couple detectives on working this file HARD to dig out all the relevant facts, then have those facts evaluated for prosecution. this case didn't go cold because the dc police are so busy solving crimes in the area that they didn't have the time or sufficient manpower to get to it, it went cold because it was shoved into the deep freeze by political power. i don't know that anyone anywhere will ever really be able to thaw the truth of this matter out, but i know for sure i'm gonna spend the rest of my life hassling any responsible party i can find for letting it go cold ... along those lines, i have a call in to a friend in the fbi to get the details on filing a foia request with them, so i'll keep the board informed as i pursue that.

in the meantime, and in answer to your comments about use of the word 'suspect', you're right that you're hearing people be very, very careful about using that word. that's because being named as a suspect gives you a very particular status under the law, and you gain a great many rights as soon as you're named, including the right to a speedy trial. law enforcement is especially careful about how they use the term, and will generally go with language like 'a person of interest' or 'one of many potential suspects' until they have all their ducks lined up in a row and they're basically ready to go to trial. media types have also become pretty careful about calling a 'person of interest' a suspect, as the term carries the implication of wrongdoing and could, therefore, make the reporter subject to claims of slander or libel ... in a politically correct world, avoiding litigation is of paramount importance because it's an ever present danger.


nanci
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your remarks, nanci.

I will give an example of what I mean by misusing the word suspect. This from the USA Today story about Chandra's funeral.

Quote:
According to police, the 24-year-old Modesto native had a romantic relationship with Congressman Gary Condit, who represents Modesto and is married. Condit was questioned closely about Levy's disappearance, but is not considered a suspect in the case.


These kind of statements by reporters, etc., suggest that Condit, or whoever, is not thought of as having committed the crime.

This is very misleading. Laws are manmade, and laws do not always do what they are supposed to do. It is my opinion that Condit is the person most likely to have committed the crime, or to have had the crime committed. That does not make him guilty, but he certainly had more motive than anyone else. But then we run into the snag of the legal interpretation of suspect. Oh well.

What is an foia that you mention?

The first thing that I would like to do is to find out who Condit's doctor was, and why he went to see his doctor. Sounds simple, but evidently it isn't.

Geragos in July 2001 was saying that all the evidence pointed away from Condit.

I will quote you here.
Quote:
this case didn't go cold because the dc police are so busy solving crimes in the area that they didn't have the time or sufficient manpower to get to it, it went cold because it was shoved into the deep freeze by political power.


I agree 100%, but I don't see any writers saying that in the newspapers. Is everyone afraid of Condit. Doesn't that do away with our freedom of speech? Oh well, I will let you comment if you want to.

benn
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nanci and jane

I have thought of something. There was a woman in Arizona who was running for office, and Condit was thinking about suing her. She ran Condit's attorney off.

Maybe she would post some messages on her website that told some of the truth about Condit. His actions can arouse suspicion, but no one can comment on that.

The Enquirer is not too afraid of Condit. The NE wrote about one episode where Condit lost his temper. I think it was with a girl he called Penny. Penny wanted him to go to some gathering where her family would be.

According to the Enquirer and Vince Flammini that made Condit lose his temper, and he broke off with Penny immediately. That same thing could have happened to Chandra and Condit. It would be very normal for Chandra to invite him somewhere, maybe to see the Paul and Linda Katz family, such as Linda suggested in one of her statements.

I think that if somewhere we could start a social statement about Condit, bringing up episodes such as I have just mentioned that we might bring his temperature up to a rapid boil. He sounds like a complete idiot to keep wooing all of those women and to think that none of them might start thinking of a long term relationship.

The Penny incident sounds sort of like Scott Peterson and his adventures. Scott is where he belongs, but Condit is not.

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some thoughtful comments you have there, benn. One comment on suspect is that the Modesto police said that SP was not a suspect even as they wiretapped him, so it doesn't really matter much what they say as far as I can tell. I know they never have and never will do anything, so they covered up for Congressman Condit just fine. Gainer was made head of Capotol police and Ramsey is being offered a big raise from Congressional funded DC operations to remain chief. They did well and got their reward.

Saw where "something is about to happen" there after they shipped Chandra home. Time to trot Guandique out again until the press goes away...

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd

Guandique is what I figured, unless they are really going to get their nerve up and get the grand jury to dig into the depositions of the Condit law suits.

I did see the Modesto police department phone number on one of the webpages of the DC website. I forget whether it was the police page, or the Chandra Levy page, or what page.

They could start just by finding out who the doctor was whom Condit was supposed to have visited on May 1. I was thinking about posting on the National Enquirer forum, but they have too much nonsense on their forum. Plus I searched for Chandra and Condit both and the Enquirer did not have either one in their search engine.

What I was thinking is that Condit's profile must fit exactly with the profile of the person who killed Chandra. If we could just get someone to make up his profile. Candice DeLong, a retired fbi profiler, is on Ronn Owens KGO talk show once in a while, or so Ronn says, but I don't know when she comes on. Maybe I will have to listen to him a little to see if I can find out anything. I think Candice works for ABC, which is one reason she is on KGO once in a while.

Actually Condit was on a dead end road, and it is easy to see that, but I don't think that I am the one to put all of the pieces together in a readable form.

The Penny incident that Condit had (hope I have her name right) that Vince Flammini told to the Enquirer, where Condit blew up because Penny was going to have Condit meet her family, shows what Condit was all about. Meeting one of his girlfriend's families would have blown him right out of the water.

So that may very well have been the scene between Chandra and Condit. Linda Zamsky, or Linda Katz, in one of her statements, told of her inviting Chandra to have Condit visit at the Katz home. That invitation right there should be enough to make Condit a suspect (in the eyes of the public and the newspapers--not of the police--the police do what they want to do).

Can you imagine Congressman Gary Condit going to the Katz home with Chandra? That was a complete impossibility. The married Congressman hobnobbing with Chandra's aunt and uncle would completely have destructed Condit's dream world.

That may have been the scenario that Condit was getting into, and the only way he could get out of it was to make Chandra disappear, however he did that. Most of Condit's girlfriends probably just disappeared if Condit had decided that he did not want them around anymore, but Chandra may have been one of his friends that was not going to disappear. Condit had to make Chandra disappear. How he did that is another scenario.

That scenario does not even require getting Otis Thomas and his daughter into the picture.

I think if a good profiler could write this up, and start spreading it around, that Condit, or the police, or Billy Martin, maybe all of them, would have to come out of the woodwork and quit hiding out.

You say, rd, that the police in Washington will not do anything, but I think that they will, if they have to. I don't think that the police in Washington really care what they do, so long as they take themselves off of the hook, so that they are not the ones responsible for whatever they do.

Well, I am going to shut the computer off for a while. It will be hot in Sacramento today, and I don't want to keep running the air conditioning to keep the computer cool.

benn
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your post was good enough for two days, benn. I think a very important fact has been left out of profile discussions, and that's that Condit was Chandra's intimate. That's why he so strongly denied it and has never admitted it publically to this day. The intimate is a strong factor in the murder of a young woman. By not being considered an intimate but instead a distinguished public figure who was being stalked by an obsessed young woman, the investigation never got the profile it should have had to work with from the beginning. The DC police saw to that, but they did react whenever Chandra's family was able to pressure them through the press. I hope they enjoy the perks of their well earned protection money payoff.

rd
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benn and rd, you're probably right - the authorities are planning to "trot out Guandique", as rd so aptly put it.

But I'm always enough of an optimist (or dummy) to hope for something - some witness or evidence - to break this case wide open and make the truth plain for everyone to see.
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peripeteia



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:42 pm    Post subject: It always comes back to the Paternity of the Thomas BABY Reply with quote

Benn:

Interesting your comments about Penny, I've not heard her name before. We know from Anne Marie that he was controlling and that when things did not go his way that he got upset. Also Chandra's comments to Linda Zamsky about if she told anyone about their relationship it would be "kaput". What follows along this line of thinking is what would have been Condit's response when Chandra mentioned Jennifer Thomas! The you know what would have hit the fan. Condit would have known that someone from Modesto told Chandra about Jennifer Thomas and it would not have been too much thought to figure out that the only source of the information about Jennifer would have had to have come from Jennifer's family. Condit could have found out in a heart beat that Jennifer's father Ottis worked for the Levyes. This would not have been rocket science to figure out in a small community. So imagine the response that Condit would have had, he have blown a gasket.

So if Condit goes balistic when a woman wants him to meet one of his family what would have been his response about one of his women's family knowning (or anyone for that matter) about his relationship and child with Jennifer. Not only this, Condit would have known that her parents knew about his relationship with Chandra, or at least suspected. We know from Sven and Linda Zamsky that Condit and Chandra were talking long term relationship, re: five year plan. So we can assume that Chandra was pressuring him for a long term committment. We know that Anne Marie was presuring him, re: wanting to keep the relationship going. We know that his wife was in town, likely presuring him regarding extra-marital affairs, as why else was she there????

Personally I think that Chandra telling Condit about the Jennifer Thomas affair and that she knew about it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Just the same as Scott, it is likely an argument about his extra-marital affairs that he came unglued. Both Condit and Scott have narcassistic personality disorders, there is little doubt in this regard, and one does not need a psychiatrist to glean this conclusion. We for sure know that Chandra mentioned Jennifer Thomas to Condit, Chandra's response was, "he explained it all".

There is no doubt in my mind that the knowledge that Chandra knew about Jennifer would have set him into a spiral. Whether this information was true or not, the fact that Chandra was prying into his personal affairs would have been enough to make him go bizzerk. Well this is my impression of Condit. That he is hung together by a loose thread and that he is a loose cannon.

It will be very interesting to know what the police meant about something happenning with this case? Indeed!!!

I think too that we have to look at the comments of Katz and Susan Levy about the Thomas affair, Susan seems convinced that the knowledge of Jennifer Thomases baby had something to do with her disappearance. Somehow, I think we should trust this impression of Susan's. My own feelings are that the knowledge of this affair and the possibility of it becoming public would have been enough to send Condit right off his rocker. What I think happened is that when Condit found out about it, he broke off with Chandra, and that Chandra made the mistake and threatened him, in order to try and get back with him.....and Condit had her murdered. This of course is my opinion but I've not been able to see another motive in this case. We certainly know that Condit is insane about his privacy, his antics of trying to be incognito and the lengths that he goes to be anonymous, like giving a fake name to his hairdresser. Like how crazy is that, REAL CRAZY.

It always comes back to the paternity of the Child in question. At least the police could rule this out, the grand jury could call for a paternity test. I think the fact that Condit would not address the grand jury speaks volumes.

Well these are my thoughts and I'm sticking with them, they may not be founded in reality, however, Chandra and the Levy's believed the story of Thomas and Chandra acted apon it and spoke to Condit about this matter.
Even if it was true or not, Condit would have seen this as an invasion of his privacy and that Chandra had spoke to someone about the relationship in order to find this out. It was not the relationship that went katput, but Chandra herself!

kate
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peripeteia



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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benn:

Do you have a url to this story about Penny in the National Enquirer? kate
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jane



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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kate and Benn,

I remember reading that Condit became furious and broke up with one girlfriend because she wanted him to meet her family. The name Penny doesn't ring a bell with me, though.

I've been looking for a reference, but can't find it.

The Sex, Power & Murder book quotes Flammini saying that Chantel Massengale was dumped by Condit when she told him how much she loved him. (p. 139)
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rd



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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kate wrote: "Just the same as Scott, it is likely an argument about his extra-marital affairs that he came unglued. Both Condit and Scott have narcassistic personality disorders, there is little doubt in this regard, and one does not need a psychiatrist to glean this conclusion. We for sure know that Chandra mentioned Jennifer Thomas to Condit, Chandra's response was, "he explained it all"."


This is very revealing. There is so much similarity in what these Modesto men did to their very similar women. I cannot emphasize enough how remarkeable this is to compare and contrast for the public. Both men may get away with it, too.

rd
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benn



Joined: 19 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jane wrote:
Kate and Benn,

I remember reading that Condit became furious and broke up with one girlfriend because she wanted him to meet her family. The name Penny doesn't ring a bell with me, though.

I've been looking for a reference, but can't find it.

The Sex, Power & Murder book quotes Flammini saying that Chantel Massengale was dumped by Condit when she told him how much she loved him. (p. 139)


The episode about Penny, if I have her name right, is in the book Sex, Power & Murder, but I threw my copy away. I will probably have to buy a used copy.

But the article was by NE and it came almost verbatim from the book. It is somewhere on the site here because I saw it yestereday. The problem is that it probably has a misleading title.

I will look for it until I find it, if no one finds it first.

There are also a lot of other good things here to comment on.

benn.
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