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OMG! Elizabeth Smart Found ALIVE!!!
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9273
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now there's a gruesome thought, Emma, Pops Mitchell and Ma Peterson. Could there be something about these enablers and excusers for evil turning out psychopaths?

rd
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 630
Location: northern illinois

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>> Could there be something about these enablers and excusers for evil turning out psychopaths? <<<


yes, rd ... categorically yes.

i know you're not real wild about discussions of psychology and such, but there are mountains of psychological research and a heartbreaking wealth of actual case studies which make it abundantly clear that people raised in households where they are not held accountable for their actions have a much higher incidence of psychopathic behaviors in their teens and adulthood, even in some cases in early childhood, than people who grow up in homes where right is rewarded and wrong is punished. that rate of incidence increases dramatically when the family dynamics in childhood include abuse of any kind, most especially sexual and psychological abuse, because the child is growing up with the message that abusive behavior is not only acceptable [the parents are doing it, so it must be ok] but that it will also bring no negative consequences [they got away with it, so will i]. the codependent sicko parents out there like mitchell's father and peterson's mother who model dysfunctional, even evil, behavior and then work their butts off to rescue their kids when the acorn don't fall far from the oak tree are just as much a part of the problem of violent crime in this country as their actively criminal children are ... as far as i'm concerned, the parents belong in jail right along with mitchell and peterson, and you can toss adrian condit in the clinker right along with gary, too.


nanci
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well said. Here's an update. My goodness, the sketch they wouldn't release was the one we saw, of Mitchell. The police essentially decided Mary Catherine was mistaken. That is just wrong. That is awful. I can't believe it.

rd


City to scrutinize police in Smart case
From the National Desk
Published 3/17/2003 7:58 PM


SALT LAKE CITY, March 17 (UPI) -- A civilian task force was created Monday to examine the police investigation into the alleged kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart, who was found last week in the company of a wandering street preacher who had not even been a major figure in the case until some five months after Elizabeth disappeared.

Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson said Monday that the task force is made up of attorneys and judges and will begin its investigation into the police protocol once the pending criminal case against alleged kidnapper Brian David Mitchell is settled in court.

"Now that Elizabeth is home, we want to make certain that any significant questions raised regarding the investigation into her disappearance are answered," Anderson said in a release. "Some of those questions deal primarily with the focus by some investigators on Richard Ricci and the level of attention by investigators in relation to Brian David Mitchell."

Salt Lake City detectives and police department brass came under some nagging public criticism last summer when it appeared they were leaning solely on Ricci, an ex-convict and former handyman who had worked at the Smart's suburban home prior to Elizabeth's disappearance.

Critics had questioned the level of attention paid to Ricci, who died while in custody on a parole violation last summer. He had been the primary focus of the probe despite a lack of physical evidence against him and an alibi provided by his wife, Angela.

Police also came under criticism because they did not release a sketch of Mitchell until last month even though Elizabeth's sister, Mary Katherine, had told her family in October that the intruder she had seen take Elizabeth on the night of June 5 could have been the handyman known only as "Emmanuel."

Police Chief Rick Dinse told reporters last week that they had not been able to create an accurate sketch of Emmanuel and had been reluctant to release a faulty description to the public out of fear of creating a flood of useless tips from well-meaning callers. He also said that half of his investigators were assigned to Ricci while the other half investigated other leads, including Mitchell.

As a result, Mitchell was largely unknown when he was arrested last Wednesday in the company of Elizabeth and 57-year-old Wanda Barzee.

Anderson said the five-member Independent Review Commission was not formed specifically to look at the Smart investigation and would also review the unsolved homicides of three women.

"The formation of this commission should not be taken as an implication that anything inappropriate occurred," Anderson stated. "Rather, it is a means of shedding light, by means of a fair and objective review, on important questions that have been raised and of learning from any mistakes that may have been made."

In the meantime, Mitchell and Barzee had been expected to be formally charged Monday; however, a scheduled news conference by prosecutors was canceled and charges were postponed until Tuesday or Wednesday.

Salt Lake County sheriff's investigators said late last week that they were investigating the possibility that Mitchell had been behind the attempted break-in at the home of one of Elizabeth's cousins just two weeks after Elizabeth disappeared.

Police also have the enormous task of finding evidence that links Mitchell to Elizabeth, such as fingerprints in the Smart home and at the various campsites where the trio lived after June 5. Failing to find such forensic evidence could allow Mitchell's lawyer to claim Elizabeth had run away and joined up with Mitchell and Barzee on her own, authorities have said.

Questions quickly arose last week after Elizabeth appeared to be willingly wandering the streets with Mitchell and Barzee. She and Barzee wore identical robes and veils when they were stopped on a street in Sandy, just 13 miles from the Smart home, and Elizabeth misidentified herself initially to police when asked her name.

In addition, Mitchell's lawyer Sunday confirmed that Mitchell had said he had been told by God to marry seven women. Elizabeth was allegedly the first of those wives, although there was no evidence of any formal marriages.

A check of Montana marriage records by United Press International Monday turned up no evidence that either Mitchell or Elizabeth had been named on a marriage license. The FBI had earlier executed a search warrant on an unknown location in Montana even though there was no indication the suspects had taken Elizabeth to the state.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth's relatives said Monday that the 15-year-old remained in good spirits and good physical shape while remaining in seclusion. Her uncle, David Smart, told reporters that a rumor going around town that Elizabeth was pregnant was untrue.

"That is not true," Smart said. "She hasn't been and she isn't (pregnant)."

(Reported by Hil Anderson in Los Angeles)


Copyright © 2001-2003 United Press International
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propria



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 630
Location: northern illinois

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>> "Now that Elizabeth is home, we want to make certain that any significant questions raised regarding the investigation into her disappearance are answered," Anderson said in a release. <<<


yeah, right ...

i'm soooooo sure!! in light of the fact that the mormon church owns essentially all the news media facilities in the greater salt lake city area, you can bet your sweet bippy we won't learn a single thing that the mormon church doesn't want us to know. as far as i am concerned, all mormons are basically confused right up front, and i wholeheartedly agree with those here who contend that the smart family just ain't quite right in all of this, but you can be sure this story is gonna drop right off the front pages just as fast as they can get it to fall below the fold on the country's major newspapers.


nanci
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EmmaPeel



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:40 pm    Post subject: Charges Delayed in Elizabeth Smart Case Reply with quote

Any thoughts from the parents out there regarding the Smart family's latest actions? What would you do?


Charges Delayed in Elizabeth Smart Case

Reuters
Monday, March 17, 2003; 8:29 PM
By Judith Crosson and James Nelson

SALT LAKE CITY (Reuters) - Charges against a street preacher for allegedly kidnapping 15-year-old Elizabeth Smart were delayed on Monday while a debate raged between prosecutors and the girl's family over whether sexual abuse charges should be included, a source close to the probe said.

The source did not disclose specifics of what type of sexual abuse charges were being considered, but the Smart family issued a strong statement saying the girl should not be put through any more of an ordeal than she has already gone through.

"The family has been in contact with the district attorney's office. The family did express their concern about Elizabeth's well being and they will hold the DA's office accountable for any actions that might victimize her a second time," Smart family spokesman Chris Thomas told Reuters.

Officials did not disclose why they had delayed filing formal charges against Brian David Mitchell, 49, and his 57-year-old wife, Wanda Barzee, who were with Elizabeth Smart when she was found by police on Wednesday.

The two are being held in jail on suspicion of kidnapping. Charges were expected by Wednesday.

Attorney Larry Long, who represents Mitchell, told local television station KUTV on Sunday night his client meant no harm to the girl.

"He wanted me to tell the world that she is his wife and he still loves her and knows that she still loves him, that no harm came to her during their relationship and the adventure that went on," Long said.

"Whatever rationale Mitchell uses to believe she was his wife and loved him is grossly mistaken," Smart spokesman Thomas said.

Mitchell allegedly kidnapped Elizabeth at knifepoint from her bedroom in the early hours of June 5.

Police originally put at the top of their list of possible suspects Richard Ricci, a career criminal who had done some work at the Smart's home in the posh Federal Heights section of Salt Lake City before he died in August.

POLICE DELAYED ISSUING SKETCH OF SUSPECT

Elizabeth's younger sister, Mary Katherine, 10, identified Mitchell in October as the man who took her sister and a composite sketch was created from her account. But police did not release the sketch until February and downplayed Mitchell's importance to the case -- saying repeatedly that the drifter was not a suspect and only one of many people they wished to question.

On Monday, Salt Lake City Mayor Ross "Rocky" Anderson announced an independent commission would review how the Smart case had been investigated by local police. "Some of those questions deal primarily with the focus by some investigators on Richard Ricci and the level of attention by investigators in relation to Brian David Mitchell," the mayor said.

The mayor said the review of the Smart case would not begin until a trial is over, although it would not wait until all appeals are exhausted. The commission will also look at how four murder cases, three still not solved, were handled by police, the mayor said.

Salt Lake City police spokesman Dwayne Baird said the department welcomed the review. "We don't have anything to hide," he told reporters.

The police department has been working around the clock retracing steps the trio took since Elizabeth was taken from her bed in the early hours of June 5

After camping out in the foothills not far from Elizabeth's home in the posh Federal Heights district of Salt Lake City, Mitchell, Elizabeth and Barzee then traveled out of state.

The trio spent time in San Diego, often sleeping under bridges and dressing in long robes.

"The physical evidence recovered corroborates Elizabeth Smart's story," an official who asked not to be identified said. Police have questioned the girl on several occasions since she was found on Wednesday, including taking her by helicopter over the area where the trio first camped out not far from the Smart home.

Authorities are also studying a 27-page manifesto Mitchell wrote advocating polygamy. Elizabeth was supposed to be the first of seven young new brides for Mitchell.


Elizabeth's family has said the shy teenager who was 14 when she was kidnapped had been "brainwashed" by Mitchell.

Barzee has been quoted as telling a friend that abducting Elizabeth was the first step toward her husband's finding seven new wives.
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jane



Joined: 22 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a tricky one, isn't it? If I were the parent, and I believed Mitchell would get a stiff sentence for kidnapping, I would try to avoid sex-related charges for sure, because I would want my daughter to heal from the traumatic experience without adding to it or putting details out there for the press, for gossip-mongers, to play with.

But if I thought he might walk on the kidnapping charges (which seems like a possibility), then I would go for charges of statutory rape or whatever the appropriate sex-related charge should be, because I wouldn't want him out there to prey on the daughter again, or the other daughter, the niece (in whom he showed an interest), or any other young girl.
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jane has summed it up in a nutshell. Furthermore, you're not going to get any incriminating testimony from Elizabeth, reducing the legal establishment to the sad prospect of attempting to prove intercourse by probing her physically. Best declare the Mitchells nutcases and a menace to young girls everywhere and lock them up and be done with it.

But nooooo, that would be too easy. We'll have do gooders trying to destroy Elizabeth so they can destroy Mitchell until Elizabeth ends up as collateral damage, all in the name of juctice she doesn't want and doesn't deserve.

rd
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EmmaPeel



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 472
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rd wrote:
jane has summed it up in a nutshell. Furthermore, you're not going to get any incriminating testimony from Elizabeth, reducing the legal establishment to the sad prospect of attempting to prove intercourse by probing her physically. Best declare the Mitchells nutcases and a menace to young girls everywhere and lock them up and be done with it.

I wanted to ask because I had mixed feelings about this too. Obviously you want to make sure these two never see the light of day again, but you don't want to harm Elizabeth in the processes.


This just in sheds more light on what happened:

Husband, Wife Charged With Kidnap, Sex Assault in Elizabeth Smart Case
Tuesday, March 18, 2003

SALT LAKE CITY — Self-proclaimed prophet Brian Mitchell and his wife were charged with aggravated kidnapping, aggravated sexual assault and aggravated burglary Tuesday in the abduction of Elizabeth Smart.

Bail for each defendant was set at $10 million. Mitchell and Barzee each face a single count on each charge, for a total of six counts. They are scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday morning. A preliminary hearing and trial were expected sometime this summer.

Authorities say Elizabeth was abducted from her bedroom at knifepoint by Mitchell on June 5. Mitchell, 49, and his wife, Wanda Barzee, 57, and Elizabeth were found Wednesday in Sandy, a Salt Lake City suburb. The two were charged jointly, meaning any hearings in the case will deal with both defendants.

"We do believe that these defendants, particularly Mitchell, should be prosecuted as a predatory sex offender," District Attorney David Yocom. "If he ever hits the streets, (he should) carry that label as a sex offender for the rest of his life. We are not dealing with just a religious zealot, we are dealing with a predatory sex offender."

The charging documents claim Mitchell entered the Smart home using a knife to cut a window screen. The teen, dressed in pajamas, was forced at knifepoint to walk four miles up a mountain trail behind the home to a concealed campsite. During the hike and inside the Smart home, Mitchell threatened to harm or kill the Smart family if she resisted, prosecutors said.

"She was under the threat of death," Yocom said.

At some point after the abduction, Barzee told Elizabeth that she knew her husband was going to kidnap her, Yocom said.

Prosecutors say that when they reached the campsite, Barzee tried to remove Elizabeth's pajamas. When the girl resisted, Barzee threatened to have Mitchell forcibly do it.

Elizabeth then complied and Mitchell attempted to sexually assault her, with Barzee's help. At some point, she was restrained with a cable around her foot that was tethered to a tree, Yocom said.

From that night until Oct. 8, the couple held Elizabeth against her will at the mountain campsite with little or no shelter, plumbing, water or food, prosecutors said.


Yocom said it was unclear why Mitchell allegedly picked Elizabeth. He could have seen her during his five hours of handiwork on the Smart home in November 2001 or when Lois Smart, possibly accompanied by her daughter Elizabeth, hired Mitchell as he panhandled outside a downtown mall, Yocom said.

Prosecutors also say that Mitchell and Barzee attempted to kidnap Elizabeth's cousin on July 24. A window was cut with a sharp instrument and the child inside told police that she saw something come through the window. The attempt was foiled when the family stirred and called police.

In October, Mitchell and Barzee took Smart to California where they stayed until March 5.

Aggravated sexual assault is a first-degree felony, with a minimum prison sentence of six years and a maximum of life. Aggravated kidnapping carries a penalty of six years to life in prison. Aggravated burglary is also a first-degree felony, with no minimum and a maximum sentence of life in prison.

Yocom's office asked the media to refrain from asking questions on the sexual assault counts "for reasons that should be obvious."

Assistant U.S. Attorney David Schwendiman said federal charges would come "only if and when it is necessary."

Yocom also said Mitchell wants to represent himself. Mitchell had spoken to attorney Larry Long, who once claimed to represent Mitchell. He had said Mitchell considered Elizabeth's disappearance a "call from God" and that he took her as his second wife. Long suggested that prosecutors should seek a light sentence to encourage kidnappers to keep their captives alive.

Mitchell's father made a similar appeal, arguing that any punishment should be tempered by the girl's survival. "There's a lot of people that kidnap little kids and murder them," said Shirl Mitchell, 83. "He took care of the girl and she came back in good health."

Smart family spokesman Chris Thomas said Mitchell was wrong to believe he had any kind of relationship with the girl.

"Elizabeth was taken against her will at knifepoint, she's a minor, and whatever rationale Mitchell used to believe that she was his wife and loved him is grossly mistaken," Thomas said. "The definition of love is not degradation, humiliation, or robbing someone's life of control and respect."

Mitchell, an excommunicated Mormon, wrote a rambling manifesto last year espousing the virtues of polygamy. The Mormon church has long distanced itself from polygamy and excommunicates those who practice it.

Before Tuesday's charges, no details had been released about any abuse Elizabeth may have suffered while captive. The girl has been interviewed several times by police, but her parents have not asked her for details, Thomas said.

Family members have said repeatedly that Elizabeth was brainwashed during the nine months, and that her loss of free will prevented her from escaping despite several opportunities to do so.

Earlier, Elizabeth's family called on prosecutors to make sure they do not traumatize the girl during questioning about the nine months she spent with her captors.

The family met Monday with the district attorney's office and asked that investigators involve Elizabeth only as much as they need to for a successful prosecution, Smart family spokesman Chris Thomas said.

"They have expressed their concerns for Elizabeth's well-being, and will hold the D.A.'s office accountable for any actions that might victimize her a second time," Thomas said.


Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson said Monday he would name an independent commission to examine police handling of the case to provide "a fair, objective review."

Investigators drew criticism for concentrating on potential suspect Richard Ricci even after Elizabeth's younger sister told authorities in October that Mitchell could be the man that took her sister.

Thomas said the family "hopes that those who made egregious errors will be held accountable and those mistakes will not be repeated."

Tuesday's charges stemmed from about 20,000 pages of materials gathered in the case, Yocom said.
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laskipper



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:16 pm    Post subject: ~ Reply with quote

I agree with Peri that Liz should be in therapy. The adult Smarts as well, but with a different therapist.

Reading what Mitchell and Barzee did to her was too much for me to even think about. That poor girl. I feel so badly for her.

I can't think of any punishment that is extreme enough for Mitchell and Barzee. Prison is not enough. To think that Mitchell has the nerve to state that he is going to defend himself. As if there was any defense for what he did.

The Bible states that if any offend a little one:

And whosoever shall offend on of those little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off...

Mark 9: 42-43 (portion)

God will exact revenge, for certain.
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propria



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe i'm just oversensitive on this point because childhood sexual abuse is a part of my own history, but has anyone else wondered if the smart family doesn't want an investigation and prosecution of the sexual abuse charges because this is not the first time elizabeth has had to deal with such stuff? i wish i could, but i just can't shake the terribly sad expression on her face in the film we keep seeing of a barbecue on a beach ... it reminds me way too much of a picture taken of me when i was about eight or nine years old, when i felt like my world was out of control and i had pretty much given up hope of anyone doing anything about what i was dealing with. i dunno ... maybe it's just me.


nanci
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jane



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, nanci, I keep saying that a lot of the pictures taken of her before the abduction look sad and unfocused. (I mean that she looks unfocused - not the camera.) I know the video you're referring to - she does look as though she feels resigned to being helpless or hopeless. Almost as though she would be angry except there'd be no use.
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violetflame



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Propria and Jane I agree also. This poor little girl has been through alot in her short lief time. And even before her abduction she seemed sad in the pictures shown of her. Does make you wonder what could possibly make her sad??? SHe had a supposedly loving family at least that seems to be the picture they are trying so hard to sell. All we can do is pray for her and hope she can get the help I am sure she is going to need to get thorugh this horrid ordeal.
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laskipper



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maggie,

Thanks for posting the charges against Mitchell & Barzee! Do me a favor?
Can you post this from the Smoking Gun? Thanks! ls


http://crime.miningco.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mitchcousin1.html

It's about the cousin of Liz Smart.
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rd



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notice that while we are supposed to believe that Elizabeth spent the summer with the crazed prophet and his wife in a canyon above the Smart's neighborhood, not once but twice dogs were unable to follow this prophet from these homes back up into the canyon. Instead, the dogs went to the street and stopped.

I'm not saying that Elizabeth wasn't up there. I'm saying that I don't believe they walked out of there in the middle of the night up into that canyon, for one thing, and I don't believe dogs couldn't follow the trail, two times we're told now. It is preposterous.

To me, there are indications Ricci made a deal with this prophet to help him kidnap Elizabeth and getting them out of town in his jeep. The guy was a junkie and lived solely to make deals to get high. How we can allow these permanent criminals to be on parole while allegedly abiding by parole stipulations of not using even alcohol nor consorting with other convicted criminals is a question that should shame us all everytime another of these criminals commits yet another crime. They should be electonically monitored and the monitors will tell if they are consorting with other criminals or being in places they shouldn't be.

It also would have cleared Ricci if he were innocent. A lie detector test didn't, and I doubt the electronic monitor would have either. You can't take the stripes off a skunk.

rd
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EmmaPeel



Joined: 20 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here we go again, RD. Police ignoring critical witnesses. Obviously they were still focused on a dead man.


COPS TURNED DEAF EAR IN SMART CASE: SUSPECT'S KIDS
By JEANE MacINTOSH

March 28, 2003 -- The children of accused kidnapper Wanda Barzee - wife of religious fanatic Brian David Mitchell - say Salt Lake City police ignored them when they tried to tell cops their stepdad may have abducted Elizabeth Smart.

"I called 911 - they directed me to dispatch and no one even called me back," Barzee's son Mark Thompson tells the "Montel Williams Show" in a segment slated to air Monday (9 a.m. on Channel 5).

Mark and his brother, Derrick Thompson, saw a sketch of their stepfather on a Feb. 15 segment of "America's Most Wanted." The show identified Mitchell as a suspect in the Smart abduction.

"We both called the Salt Lake City detectives and nobody called us back," Derrick says.

He was surprised no action was taken.

"It was like a brick to the head," Derrick says. "[I thought] why aren't these people getting in contact with us?" Asked how long it took police to call back, Derrick, Mark and their sister, LouRee Gaylor, say in unison, "They never did."


Mark said he did finally reach the FBI.

"The FBI said, 'Well, if you do see him, call us,' " Mark recalls. "They said, 'Don't call the police. Call us.' "

Well that either means the FBI wanted the glory or they knew the Utah police were a bunch of incompetent boobs. Or both.


The brothers also tell Williams how they launched their own search for Mitchell in downtown Salt Lake after seeing the sketch.

Mitchell and Barzee were arrested March 12 after passers-by - who'd also seen the "Most Wanted" segment - noticed them walking with Elizabeth in Sandy, Utah, nine months after her abduction.

The siblings visited their mother in jail last week, where she's being held on kidnapping and sexual abuse charges. Gaylor said her mother doesn't understand she's done something wrong, and still refers to herself as "Eladah"- the name Mitchell gave her.
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