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Jennifer Kesse POI photo analysis links
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9233
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth Prevails wrote:
Regarding points 1 & 2, I think I have located the "curled fingers" and/or the "clenched hand." (I'm taking this to be two different ways of describing the same section of your blow-up). In the image just below, if you follow the little red handle of the box framing my insert, I hope you will agree that it points to this area.

So, another alternative, is that it is also the top of the cylinder-shaped object which may be strapped to his back somehow--would this be a correct assumption? (Some may also consider this cylinder-shaped object his arm).

Now, onto points 3 & 4, and also from image just below--notice the area bracketed in red: it should be in this area where I look to see the shoulder patch/insignia, is this correct?


[CENTER]______________________________[/CENTER]

I'm having even more difficulty with these points.

I can only really see one leg. (I don't know if you agree with that). So, do you see the thigh straps and the holster shape on that leg? That doesn't make sense, right?

Anyway, in the image below; looking at my insert in your blow-up, I point to an area I describe as his right hip area (but don't understand why the right leg would not be underneath it)--and am wondering what these clearly defined ridges are?




Truth, on your sectioning off of parts of POI image and notations, that is really excellent work and much appreciated. All of your image notations are accurate. I would note following:

The "curled fingers" is where the visual artifact object is in image 2, has the same look, and could be the top of it. It is really weird looking but has the same weird look in both images. I'm going to retire my "curled fingers" take because this was not normal, and was out of place, but clearly there was something to it that people weren't considering.

I'm going to go with same object in both images, whatever that object is. To have similar random visual image introduced in both images in same position relative to his body just takes all the randomness out of it. I don't know what could look tubular and coiled like that, but I have noted major hardware on his back from the beginning and I'm inclined to think there may be something to the suggestion that the thigh belting is related to the hardware.

In your red bracket of his shoulder, I've always though that was overlaying of two images, one a shoulder patch and the other the side of a front of shirt logo. I could be wrong, it could all be from the shoulder. Note the traditional police / DoD / Deputy Sheriff badge shaped patch within your brackets, floating over a heavier Harley Davidson like logo extending on forward.

That police badge shaped patch is the identical shape I extracted from image 3 below the POI's face. I couldn't tell whether a badge or patch, hence didn't know whether he had turned his body or just his head. The badge never made any sense, but here we have the same shoulder patch shape in two images ( 1 and 3). Again, stuff like this doesn't happen randomly.

Regarding only one leg, no. We see stepping off left leg, the holster is on his right thigh, the hardware on his right hip and back. if you take a straight line down, you have his head, right shoulder, gate lock, holster on right thigh with thigh straps. I'm assuming right leg is forward. It would have to be to be walking, wouldn't it?

The area you have circled includes the lower holster but is focused a bit on below it. Going down from gate keylock, you have in my opinion a square duty support (in left corner), a round swivel connector, top of holster, thigh strap Y connector to top and mid holster, another band which appears to be another thigh strap, solid, not Y connector, (or possibly a visual artifact), a band of light obscuring across the holster, the bottom of the holster, and additional bands of darkness and light. There's nothing solid below the holster. Could they be clearly defined ridges? Yes, but it's pretty broken up at that point.

Again, really helpful stuff, Truth. I am going to be updating my Blowups page as my understanding changes based on your feedback.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jennifer's car is a 2004 Chevy Malibu, per Edumunds.com, the roof height is 57 inches. I would say from the Greta Investigate clips. he's about a human head above the roofline in height, say 9 inches, which would make him about 5' 6".

I would comment that one mitigating factor is that the camera is on roof of the poolhouse. But there are three frames of interest after car is pulled up and parked. One, some white is seen as car door is opened. Two, you have emergence of POI, with full white height. But third frame is really of interest.

You will see an extension of arm, horizontal. When I looked at this last year and did a couple of quick enlargements, my take was that he was putting on a backpack type device, but neither here nor there, he extends his arm horizontally. (btw, the white horizontal extension is where one can see he's wearing long sleeves.)

It is in that frame that you see the extended arm is quite high compared to the car, and would be his shoulder height. imo that makes him considerably taller than 5'6, I estimated that it looked a little closer to me standing next to car with a 5'7 to 5'8 height, but probably more the low end of my standing next to tree estimate, 5'9. And maybe closer to the upper end of my estimate, 5'11. I don't know. But this is an area where info and estimates like you're bringing really helps.

I know three inches difference isn't huge, but there's a large difference in effect it has on 5'6 versus 5'9 in population. So thanks for that estimate.

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth Prevails wrote: Okay. So, I think I have at least isolated where I see the outline of a badge shape patch on the shoulder of the POI in image 1.

well, several comments, Truth. This is most excellent. I found this back in the day, I showed the picture, I extracted and showed light and dark, I showed a badge below it, and 11 years later probably no one saw it, understood it, or cared.

You find it, ring it with red arrows, show the badge next to it, and attempt to show where in image it came from, and it is instantly understandable. Would maybe more than a couple of people have got this back in 2007 if I had more of your presentation skills? Don't answer that, I don't want to deal with a No answer. We'll see if it makes a difference now. Can't ask for anything clearer.

Well, speaking of that :), where you have the police badge shape pointed out with red arrows, is from image 3. I apologize for the confusion, and lord knows it's probably pretty indicative of the confusion any number of people have had for those that rolled down and gave as much scrutiny as you did.

The nature of the page is that I have highlights from image 1, then highlights of image 2, and then I show actual image 3 because I didn't think anyone would find it useful at top with image 1 and 2, and then highlights of image 3. Where you found this to do your work, which I can't say enough good things about, was below image 3 and is included in a number of various outtakes from image 3.

Now going on from this, your circle where this came from would be from image 3 below the bar below the face. I started to say that this was not visible, and it wasn't back in the day, but I just took a look at the OPD supplied image 3 on my Blowups page and sure enough the face and the badge shape are clearly visible with naked eye. I have several computers in my apartment here, a couple large business computers, various laptops and desktops, but my day to day computer is a 10 year old XP with a normal LCD monitor and graphics at time, which I use at 1600 x 900, less than capacity.

And looking now, I see everything with it I spent months the year before I bought this finding with work on images, for example that darkened image you posted above with badge shape was done with painstaking effort, I see it all perfectly now with naked eye, in all 3 images. In any event, image 3 can be circled for this area and the badge shape seen below the face quite clearly.

So let's say you replaced the image 1 up there with image 3 circled. What to do with image 1? That image 1 red bracketed shoulder you have in a prior post has the badge shaped shoulder patch almost completely filling your brackets. It is a little cockeyed to the left. It is a lighter layer if you will. There is a darker layer intersecting it and running to front of shirt.

I have only found with a great deal of effort to match up somewhat with a Harley Davidson logo (the rounded cross shape with a bar across middle). The very solid logo like shape could be part of shoulder, I don't know, but the large police badge shape is very clear. Look at top of your bracket area and cocked a little to left and top of police badge shape is very clear, like what we see here in image 3.

So image 1 and in particular your bracketed shoulder work is what you want to look at, you are completely successful with image 3. And my thanks to you for the work, Truth.

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I see a shield shape I associate that shape mostly with sporting things, the shields that you have on the walls at school or in a sporting club.

Or some sort of logo to suggest protection like a security company or locksmith.


If found in only one image, and especially at that distance, many things are possible, although a large police badge shape is not something that you just find somewhere. It's the shape of a police badge for a reason.

However, we have this also distinctly on shoulder in image 1. And you will see that is below his face in image 3, which would be his shoulder with his face turned back to look at car he parked. So there's no guessing really.

We have a POI with police badge shaped shoulder patch and a thigh strapped holster shape on his right hip. This was basis for me saying this was an armed law enforcement type all these years after finding all this in 2007. but a lot of good work done recently by Truth Prevails has made this much more understandable to people, even though she didn't have anything particular in mind for people to understand.

Which is the best part. Present the data. Go where the data leads you.

I didn't present the data nearly well enough.

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth Prevails wrote: I'm going to post Image 3. In my opinion, this image has been discarded by almost everyone--or maybe everyone--except rd


______________________________________

Okay. Now, my correction of what I posted yesterday.


______________________________________

Now, the most amazing thing about that forgotten image is that it shows the POI's face. I find all my little pointy text boxes and arrows and red circles detract from it; so, I'll link rd's original: http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3033

(It also seems to reinforce the thoughts that maybe the POI has long sleeves on).

This is some of the most amazing work I have ever seen. To take such a tiny, poor quality image and blow it up--somehow allowing it to keep its integrity-- would be impossible for someone of ordinary skills.

Take a bow, rd, because you deserve it.

My mother would often tell me that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. You have lead us, but if we would rather see a skate board tucked under the arm of skinny teenager who never bothered to turn around--that's a stumbling block of our own making.




Thanks for those kind words, Truth. That actually made the months of work worth it.

I took another look at your red bracketed image 1 shoulder up above. The shape is actually identical to what you have arrows pointing to in image 3, let's call it a police badge shaped shoulder patch.

I have an example security guard shirt on the Blowups page I saw on an online store. It has that shape shoulder patch but the actual (cloth) badge on the shirt is a starred sheriff's type badge. It's a very light gray color. It's short sleeved but a long sleeved version of that shirt would match just about perfectly with what we see. But it's an example I found on a security guard clothing site. I haven't seen any security guards wearing something like that, so was very pleased to run across it in my hours and hours of image searching.

Anyway, if you were to take that badge shape above and hold it over the bracketed area, you could literally match it up right there. You will be surprised when you see it. Above your red brackets is all white. Coming down into brackets is white. The first darkness is the right corner of the badge shape. It is tilted up a little, across and down over to rail is the top, basically that mickey mouse ears badge shape. From there you can see it curve down and in just like badge shape, and you can see the entire shape including the bottom. There is a diagonal white streak of light across it that breaks it up a little, that might be throwing you off.

Thanks again for that compliment, Truth. Much appreciated.

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth Prevails wrote:
Oh, yes. Image searching can take some time. I think I have found and viewed the image you refer to above. I hope you won't mind if I post it below:



I've been looking this over--and over.

So, I might understand what you mean; but don't hesitate to tell me if I've got it all wrong. I'll just go back and look some more. :)

Okay. If you look at the two circles in the image below, I think the faint outline of the cloth badge shape we see in Image 3 is inside the smaller circle. (It's really hard for me to see, though).

Then if we expand out to the larger circle, we see a different shape of a larger, bolder cloth badge which actually appears on top of the smaller cloth badge. This could be due to the slop/angle of the camera, the POI position, and/or the landscape slop. (I mean that as a question--I'm trying to understand how that could happen).

I think looking at the image of your gray t-shirt offers a good understanding of how the placement of the cloth badges could allow this to occur.

Even though I'm struggling with this, I do find it very interesting. If we consider Image 1--we are viewing the right side of the POI. If we consider Image 3--the face shot--in order for your theory to work, we have to conclude that he is looking back over his right shoulder. (Or if the cloth badges are on both right and left sleeves as in your image of the gray t-shirt, maybe not so much).

I don't know. I'd be more comfortable with it, if both the overlapping images appeared in Image 3; rather than both appearing in Image 1.

Anyway, I'll add my image with the two circles so you can better see what I'm describing. Also, I added a small image of an old Harley logo that I found on the front of a t-shirt and I thought it "kind-of" matched the shape I see in the larger circle.



Truth, you have the gist of everything detailed. It's just a matter of interpretation now. I would clarify following:

1 - I expect shoulder patches are same on both shoulers almost always, as in for example the security shirt pictured (I myself borrowed from an online store, it's just an example shirt that has the police badge shape shoulder patches seen, not easily found, the same as everything else about this outfit.)

2 - I just mentioned the exanple shirt's cloth chest badge, a starred sheriff's badge, in passing, as in the chest badge is a different shaped badge. I did not mean to imply that anything about that starred sheriff's badge was seen in these images. A left chest badge wouldn't impact image 1 in any event.

3 - Your outer red circle encircles the police badge shaped shoulder patch perfectly. It is more difficult (impossible?) to see the full badge outline in the copy at that size. In the blowup image this comes from on the Blowups page, the perfect police badge shape is easily seen. You have to not let that dark logo overlapping the right bottom of the badge distract the eye. The right bottom corner of the badge shoulder patch is perfect even within that darkened logo type shape. In fact, one could see the forward thrust of the darkened area as shoulder patch movement. The key is to see the solid outline of the police badge exactly as seen in image 3.

4 - As a sidenote, I see (it's been many years) that I don't have image 1, then image 2, then image 3 highlights, I started with image 2 due to the best shot of the head, I was determining hat or hair, and then worked on image 1. This image 1 shoulder is further down the Blowups page after rolling through the image 2 detail.

5 - I tried for a long time to identify the darkened "logo" as from left side of shirt, like a tshirt logo or security guard logo, blurring in with shoulder patch. But at this point it appears to me to be blurred shoulder patch. The whole left side of the "ring" is the perfectly shaped police badge shape patch.

Thanks for this, Truth.

rd
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rd



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 9233
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth Prevails wrote:
I thought you might find this entertaining if you haven't run across it yet.

Go to about 3:22 minutes in, the discussion is brief: https://audioboom.com/posts/6809119-sidebar-update-4-15-18

Apparently, we are seeing a palm tree:


(These are your images, RD, I just took a screen shot, sharpened it a little, and added the color--it's easier on my eyes).

Original images here, 4th comment box: http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3033

This appears to be the palm tree to me, but what do I know?


A special and sincere thanks to the owner of the Photobucket account for keeping these pictures available to the public.
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/HelpFindJennifer/media/cGF0aDovRFNDMDY1NjguanBn/?ref=1



Thanks, Truth, I listened to these guys for first time and see I haven't been missing anything.

First of all, they act like Websleuths is some kind of cult website ("that site popular with some armchair sleuths, if you're talking about same one I am" yada yada). Who are these jokers?

Second, the image enhancements were done by me back in 2007. Posted here on its own web page for 11 years now, as originally posted. "People have been looking for so long now they're just desperate to see something." Where did these guys come from? Is this the equivalent of new kids on the block in web sleuthing?

Third, and I'm not making this up, this one guy thinks that we've mistaken the POI in image 3 as a palm tree. Not standing next to a palm tree, but actually the palm tree. Like we can't see the palm tree and the POI, we just think something on the palm tree is the POI. I just want to pose this question. Why would anyone care what someone that clueless thinks?

And did I really hear this distiguished gentleman say that some people see a bald man with glasses? Please tell me I misheard this guy. He can't be that unknowledgeable about this and giving an expert opinion.

I will say this, this does echo standard responses from the professionals. They think that since OPD and really no else saw any of this, that it can't be there. Even though it's pretty obvious and all really visible to naked eye in original unenhanced images as far as being there. Obviously that's why we have magnifying glasses, telescopes, etc. to be able to make out details in enlarged images that we can't make out unenlarged. There's a certain amount of size required to discern details, patterns, etc.

And really the image 3 finds was after all the stuff I found in images 1 and 2 which is where the law enforcement part comes in. I just continued to analyze image 3 as I did image 1 and 2. And I was as shocked as anyone when I saw this POI looking back at me. I wrote of it extensively. I contacted OPD. (Got a "tip" number, of course no response.)

Desperate to find something? This was back in 2007. I didn't even want to look at this stuff. All I heard was bad images, hair or hat, yada yada for months and months. The OPD contracted someone to look at the images and the response was, pretty much a quote here, "man or woman? can't tell. hair or hat? can't tell.", and that was the entirety of OPD analysis. They just don't want to know. Just like with their uniforms showing up light in the camera. "Don't worry about the clothes". There's your OPD in a nutshell.

These two distinguished gentlemen then went on to entertain a question of whether OPD is using AI to discern the images pixel by pixel. They understandably admitted didn't have expertise to know what that meant, and quite frankly it doesn't mean anything, it is a layman attempt to pose a technical question to them. First that OPD would be doing anything is laughable. Second is typical hand waving neural net magic that public has been promised to think can do things like this. Just sad all the way around.

Lastly, the yellow coloring is just excellent. As the original source of these enhancements I have been careful not to introduce any alterations whatsoever because early on I was met with accusations that I had altered the images. So as to not give these people any ground whatsoever for their baseless claims I didn't alter the images in any way.

I see now that many people can't find the shapes without external borders such as Truth added. It certainly was a great help to many, but not enough people looking close enough to have any idea. These comments from these audiocasters a good example. And I take it they're considered to have some basis for opinions worth listening to? Well I've run across this in Chandra Levy case and still dealing with it, have to get back to dealing with it actually.

Regarding the palm tree, yes that is the palm tree on its last legs so to speak. When I visited and wrote up about it, probably 2008, I'd have to check, the palm tree was still standing as in image 3. I recall seeing a picture a few years ago and remarking that the palm tree was now gone. I see here why.

A couple of things from this picture. I have described the fence extension and POI needing to be out in lane some from gate, I didn't recall that the declining walkway from gate is out to lane as far as the fence extension. The POI wouldn't actually be next to tree, just stopped to look back when past the walkway.

thanks

rd
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rd



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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we be certain that the POI was not dressed in a white shirt of some sort and beige trousers?

I've said all along that the clothes could be light, there's no way of knowing without testing, which the police would not accommodate by divulging the camera make and settings in place. That would be too much like work to let other people do their work for them.

You would think that if I/R was washing out the clothes that white would be whiter than white, but consider the following:

- The 24 hour surveillance cameras were outdoors which would require I/R for night vision

- Lower cost models were known either to not have the light sensitive I/R shutter for daytime or for it to break easily and not be reliable

- The police uniforms showing up light takes all guesswork out of it; the cameras were recording with I/R sensors during the day

- Examples if I/R washed out images I've seen on the web (very few) of greenery has the same look as these POI images. The tops of the hedges and the palm tree fronds have this washed out, lightened look.

- An example of a color camera with I/R during light alongside a normal picture showed that white wasn't white, it was a very light greenish tint to it. Clothes like a sweater that had white patterns were less white patterns with I/R in color. I don't know how a b/w/gray camera would render.

- People are conditioned to see a white t-shirt in the POI images because of the hidden arms, however no arms can be seen and I have said previously that's it's unable to be determined if it's a short sleeved shirt.

However after taking a look at the video of the POI getting out of the car, his horizontal arm with white sleeve can clearly be seen. I believe he is putting a backpack on.

- I believe there to be a law enforcement shoulder patchseen as blurry and hovering in image 1 and the shape of a police badge in image 3. We have a sample security shirt (short sleeved) posted here with that kind of shoulder patch. It's light gray. White shirts with shoulder patches are possible but not a t-shirt.

- People have talked about white uniforms from the beginning but this shirt and pants are different shades of darkness, not both same shade of white. The pants are darker.

- I'm looking at a couple of pictures of Miami bike patrol officers right now. (They're real people, the faces would need to be obscured pretty well to put them on public display.) White short sleeved shirts with prominent shoulder patches (roundish and stripes though), charcoal blue pants, bike helmet like I've pointed out, the neck strap goes right around the back of the neck just like I've pointed out the ring on the back of the neck, but have rarely seen a strap go around like that.

It could be a white shirt, but it'd be like the Miami bike patrol shirt in my opinion.

rd
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